Pool 2 (Connacht, Toulouse, Wasps, Zebre)

[ratsapprentice]

Stop being precious, I guess we watch rugby for different reasons. I have no problem if Manu gets a yellow when he dives into a ruck off his feet with no arms. I have no problem with big tackles either as long as they're legal.

The point is that they've changed what is legal.

Perfectly legitimate actions are not only being penalised now, but yellow carded.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

The ref was consistent in his own way. One high tackle late on for both sides was given as penalty only. Only Beale's hit, resulting in an unfortunate and unlucky blow to the head, was given a yellow. Good luck finding a sport with fully consistent refereeing. There never has been and never will be such a sport.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I don't want them to punish those, let alone consistently.

 

[FrenchFan]

That could have led to great fatigue and, coupled with a bouncback by England and English clubs, led to such dominance. On the flip side this year many French clubs seem to not care about the European competition and English rugby domestically has suffered for whatever reason and the standard in the Aviva this year is well below last year for most clubs (Wasps and Sarries being the only exceptions). What has caused this drop off is unknown but it's affecting the entire domestic league this year and clearly filtering into Europe too.

Couple of reasons.

Top 14 is bigger priority. There is no bigger windfall than winning the league here. For teams like Castres that are not ***le contenders but will aim for the Top 6. They're not going to get burnt in Europe and risk their domestic season. They'll give it a go but up to a point.

CCup doesn't have the prestige that came with the Heineken Cup. Doesn't sell well over here. Many half empty stadiums around during pool games. Not good. Marketing of Top 14 is more successful.Also the marketability of some european teams here is open to debate. Example where and who is Connacht? For most French fans it's not a club, it's not a big city. It's not very much - PS not my personal view. I know where Connacht is and I've been to Galway. THis is not a swipe at the Irish. Just fact most fans here don't know better.

French fans do not like European referees. Decisions are sometimes hard to understand and justify. The refs are quite different from Top 14. We've seen a perfect example again today. One player gets a yellow for clearing a ruck with his shoulder. It happens all the time in Top 14. It's a foul but not a yellow. Yachvili commenting the game on French TV could'nt make sense of it. The constant flashing of yellows is a kill joy.

The policing of the scrums has become an absolute joke. We like our scrums. It's always been that way. There's a whole rugby culture here built around the scrum. They have de-powered the scrum and turned it into a circus. They have tried to fix with poorer rules an area of the game that was not broken. There's too much emphasis now on 'politically correct' policing of the game. A hand comes in contact near a face accidentally. EYE GOUGING. an arm around shoulders. HIGH TACKLE. We don't like that. Of course, at European level, if we start criticising refs, we're the 'bad French'.

If the Power that be take the fun out of European club rugby with more mickey mouse reffing and poor marketing. Beware. The CCup will go down the toilet faster than they can think.

The CCup will go the way the Challenge Cup has gone with French clubs treating it as a training run fielding B or C side to try out new players, give game time to recovering players, try out new combos before important league games etc. This is what Toulouse and some other teams have been doing. Just look at the team compos and how squads are rotated. I'm not saying they're all doing it.
The CCup is struggling to compete with Top 14 in this country. And it is the ERC's job to do a better job of marketing their competition or else...

 

[McTallshort]

With all the research about concussion coming out in recent years they're trying to secure the games future. Parents are understandably seriously having to think about letting their children play rugby now, knowing the possible long term ramifications.

Yes for the love of god will someone please think of the children

 

[munstermuffin]

I watch rugby because I love the sport but the rule changes and gamesmanship are making it terrible.
Scrums are an absolute joke as are choke tackles, competition for the high ball rules are mental
Everything's so inconsistent

Olyy just on choke tackle issue. How would you deal with it. Serious question. Like if a team takes it in but is going nowhere and can't get it back how should it be dealt with?
Like my views are its a good skill the choke tackle and rewards technique. Attacking team are equally pubished if they can't recycle a ball they took in.
Just curious to how to alternatively deal with it. But in my eyes it is a reward for good technique.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

As soon as it hits the ground it becomes a ruck, if the balls unplayable after everyone has to roll away then the team going forward retains posession like in a normal ruck.
Also they need to ref the maul from open play the same as mauls from a lineout - I literally can't think of a single time someone's been penalised for collapsing a choke tackle maul, yet it happens at every choke tackle maul

 

[munstermuffin]

As soon as it hits the ground it becomes a ruck, if the balls unplayable after everyone has to roll away then the team going forward retains posession like in a normal ruck.
Also they need to ref the maul from open play the same as mauls from a lineout - I literally can't think of a single time someone's been penalised for collapsing a choke tackle maul, yet it happens at every choke tackle maul

But again that kind of rewards the mistake of the attack. I agree on your last bit but think there is as many issues with it. Like if a guy makes a great tackle and holds his man up. Why should he be punished I agree it's debatable but my view is if you bring it in the onus is on you. Majority of choke tackles are from players going in isolted or bad body position. Get them right and choke tackle is near impossible

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I can see where you're coming from but I don't think a team should be rewarded for killing the game.

 

[die_mole]

contest for ball happens after the tackle... if you can't strip the ball before the guy hits the ground you didn't win that contest and it's now time for a new one to start

 

[munstermuffin]

I can see where you're coming from but I don't think a team should be rewarded for killing the game.

See here is issue. Your boews are right equally are mine. Both of us see it from different POV but both have strong cases to back it up. When I see Munster working on it (and it not much work) but it's sent from IRFU down to sumply use the rules but get your technique bang on and you body position right and punish the opponents sloppiness. Now you see it that its rewarding the team killing the game legally. Now I don't agree with your suggestion on solution as I still feel it is rewarding attacking team in a way. I do accept maybe there is a need for some adjustment

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Completely echo the comments about the referee and the game just being a little harder to enjoy under the current safety directives.

There are actually three problems as typified by this game:

1) The directives coming down from above

2) The quality of referees

3) The quality of referee-TMO interaction.

The Beale incident yesterday was a little of everything in my opinion. The referee was attempting to follow his idea of the already stringent directives but even those laws make room for lenience when you've got the player already slipping into the tackle to the extent that his head was at normal shoulder height. To be honest I think that decision is owned by the referee in combination with the TMO because the former didn't consider contextual factors and the latter didn't provide any insight or further comment. I don't believe TMOs will be of any use in rugby unless they are given slightly more room to be useful, rather than the "speak only when spoken to" rubbish we have now.

 

[Mumbles119]

Saturday December 17th, kick off 17:30, the Sportsground


Wasps team


15. Rob Miller
14. Christian Wade
13. Brendan Macken
12. Kurtley Beale
11. Josh Bassett
10. Jimmy Gopperth
9. Joe Simpson
1. Matt Mullan
2. Tommy Taylor
3. Jake Cooper-Woolley
4. Joe Launchbury ©
5. Kearnan Myall
6. Ashley Johnson
7. Thomas Young
8. Nathan Hughes


Replacements
16. Alex Rieder
17. Tom Bristow
18. Marty Moore
19. James Gaskell
20. Guy Thompson
21. Dan Robson
22. Alapati Leiua
23. Frank Halai

Connacht team (Connacht caps in brackets)


15 Tiernan O’Halloran (112)
14 Niyi Adeolokun (43)
13 Rory Parata (20)
12 Bundee Aki (52)
11 Matt Healy (78)
10 Jack Carty (66)
9 Kieran Marmion (110)
1 Denis Buckley (102)
2 Tom McCartney (50)
3 Finlay Bealham (66)
4 Ultan Dillane (35)
5 Quinn Roux (41)
6 Eoin McKeon (97)
7 Nepia Fox-Matamua (12)
8 John Muldoon (captain) (287)


Replacements:
16 Dave Heffernan (69)
17 JP Cooney (39)
18 Conor Carey (9)
19 Lewis Stevenson (7)
20 Sean O’Brien (25)
21 Caolin Blade (32)
22 Danie Poolman (74)
23 Naulia Dawai (0)

 

[TommiG88]

Connacht bore in so obviously at the scrum

 

[corny]

The naivety of Connaughts play defies belief. Wasps should be looking to defend hard, play territory and the bonus point win will be theirs.

 

[TommiG88]

The naivety of Connaughts play defies belief. Wasps should be looking to defend hard, play territory and the bonus point win will be theirs.

In addition they are getting away with infringements. 2nd maul that has been collapsed.

 

[Groundhog]

Jesus the ref talk gets boring fast round here. I'm guilty of it too, but are watching rugby or the refs?

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Gah. We should be 10 points ahead with some of the possession we've had. We're lacking composure and just look nervous.

- - - Updated - - -

To be honest, Wade hasn't done himself any favours today so far. Couple of poor mistakes

 

[Groundhog]

Wade gets exposed whenever targeted here. If you're his size you need to get a rep as a tough tackler. He is not that, and his positioning ain't so good. Connacht copping on a bit thank god. Aki carrying them through their worst periods. Shining in the good times.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Carty developing as the season goes on but inconsistent. Connacht need a goal kicker badly though.