Post-RWC All Blacks Team?

[Kiwiwomble]

as for Sopoaga at 12, I reckon Cruden benefits from a hard running 12 outside him, and Cruden would be one of my first players picked.

Sopoaga and barrett could work though. but who would be 13 with that combo? rene ranger could be ideal if he were still around (what do you know, I just googled it and he is coming back), with both Savea and Naholo on the wings, obviously smith at fullback.

thoughts?


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Fekitoa, the combo with smith popping up in the back line could be pretty leathal

 

[smartcooky]

as for Sopoaga at 12, I reckon Cruden benefits from a hard running 12 outside him, and Cruden would be one of my first players picked.

Sopoaga and barrett could work though. but who would be 13 with that combo? rene ranger could be ideal if he were still around (what do you know, I just googled it and he is coming back), with both Savea and Naholo on the wings, obviously smith at fullback.

thoughts?

Two words.... Malakai Fekitoa

He is a solid tackler, a line-breaker, a good distributor in both directions and a straight, hard and deceptive runner, with speed. He has all the attributes that make a great All Black 13 in the mould of Franck Bunce.

 

[Kiwi_]

Two words.... Malakai Fekitoa

He is a solid tackler, a line-breaker, a good distributor in both directions and a straight, hard and deceptive runner, with speed. He has all the attributes that make a great All Black 13 in the mould of Franck Bunce.

Careful, I got lambasted for singing his praises here. Apparently his tackling % is only at 58% over the last 20 minutes of each game he's had.

 

[nickdnz]

Ehh I like Fekitoa (if I lambasted anyone) - my point was that he still has errors in his game and I don't think he is ready to replace Smith.

 

[Kiwi_]

A problem I find on this site is people fail to use stats in context, or correctly. Just slap them into an argument without any structure to reinforce a point.

A good example would be Eben had slightly better stats than Brodie over the last 2 games, so apparently he's #1 lock in the world now...

Also it's always going to be difficult to just straight away replace Conrad, the guy is a legend. We have to develop another player to get anywhere close to what he's given. Fekitoa marshalled a tough Highlanders midfield, has been a regular All Black past few seasons and always gives his guts in every game. Given more game time and training/coaching I can see those errors evaporating pretty quickly.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

i think there's something to be said for if we wait for people to become perfect in super rugby first we give the AB's couching team very little to do and could be waiting a very long time.

the AB couching team is supposedly the best in the country, lets not be afraid of using that to make players better, as longs as we've established a) they have the potential and b) what needs to be worked on.

I think there have been a couple of guys that were really good at super level...not quote at international level but because they weren't given more than a game or two we never saw them at there best.

I really would like to see the same 23 play more than a couple of games in a row, let them best into the system and not just bounce from one option to another trying to find the perfect fit

 

[Mcfadden]

A problem I find on this site is people fail to use stats in context, or correctly. Just slap them into an argument without any structure to reinforce a point.

A good example would be Eben had slightly better stats than Brodie over the last 2 games, so apparently he's #1 lock in the world now..

Did anyone actually say that, or were they just making the point that Eben has made a good go for the international arena this year and has improved? Not being a smart ass, just genuinely curious as I might have missed something.

I also like Fekitoa. I'm not sure he's my absolute favorite, but I'm still trying to work that one out. It's also not so much Fek personally. It's what combination is going to be right after the WC. We will need a power-man besides Julian Savea though.

 

[nickdnz]

A problem I find on this site is people fail to use stats in context, or correctly. Just slap them into an argument without any structure to reinforce a point.

A good example would be Eben had slightly better stats than Brodie over the last 2 games, so apparently he's #1 lock in the world now...

Also it's always going to be difficult to just straight away replace Conrad, the guy is a legend. We have to develop another player to get anywhere close to what he's given. Fekitoa marshalled a tough Highlanders midfield, has been a regular All Black past few seasons and always gives his guts in every game. Given more game time and training/coaching I can see those errors evaporating pretty quickly.

I have the opposite problem, where it feels like people make assertions on this site which are factually inaccurate or unsubstantiated.

Statistics are of course relative. One of my favourite quotes is "a statistician is someone who can draw a mathematically exact line between an unwarranted assumption, and a foregone conclusion". However, what you will notice as an example, is that people on this site and in general have a tendency towards confirmation bias. People can literally name the two missed tackles Conrad Smith has made in the last year (on May and Kreil) which have resulted in linebreaks - and they use this to back their own assessment which is "he's not the same player, he's too old, too slow etc".

However if you watch what players do throughout a game, rather than just highlight reels, you get a much better picture of a players consistency. Fekitoa as a defender isn't even terrible - he rushes out of line, but often leaves a halts the players enough that a second defender can cover them (which is exactly the method Savea has been using from bombs). However, he is still requiring support players to cover him, as opposed to Conrad who is a much better organiser of defence, and more accurate in the collisions.

The thing is - you can't use the Eben/Brodie example to make a generalisation, because the sample size is too small. Making a generalization about players over the course of a campaign generally paints a better picture. When I mention Fekitoa tackling at 58% - I'm not saying he will only make 58% of his tackles over a long campaign - but based on Super Rugby he is still the lowest percentage tackler at centre in any of NZ's teams. You can't blame the defensive system in this situation, as you would expect if it was the system there would be improvements when moving to another team.

 

[smartcooky]

Also it's always going to be difficult to just straight away replace Conrad, the guy is a legend. We have to develop another player to get anywhere close to what he's given. Fekitoa marshalled a tough Highlanders midfield, has been a regular All Black past few seasons and always gives his guts in every game. Given more game time and training/coaching I can see those errors evaporating pretty quickly.

Not to mention that he and Nonu have formed what has been, I think indisputably, the best 12/13 combination in the world for a few years now.

Also, your last sentence rings true with me too. A friend of mine on the periphery of the ABs camp tells me that Fekitoa is like a sponge; he just soaks up new learnings and puts the new information into practice very quickly

 

[Kiwi_]

Not to mention that he and Nonu have formed what has been, I think indisputably, the best 12/13 combination in the world for a few years now.

Also, your last sentence rings true with me too. A friend of mine on the periphery of the ABs camp tells me that Fekitoa is like a sponge; he just soaks up new learnings and puts the new information into practice very quickly

Yep, this to me is invaluable, I got accused of Highlanders favouritism because I've been backing Fekitoa so much and shooting down SBW. But to me the effort Fekitoa puts in, the type of personality and player he is, takes it all in, is hungry to learn and develop and just gives his heart in every opportunity he gets. This is where I find stats almost useless in comparing him with SBW, who "statistically" has a high tackle rate, but in almost any tough fixture he ghosts and doesn't bring the cutting edge. You can see from watching games who has the better impact, who puts in the effort more. Fekitoa is the future and it's not just Highlander favouritism.

 

[Jaguares]

Will SBW return to the NRL? When his contract ends?

 

[Kiwiwomble]

he's playing 7's next year, do the chiefs still have to pay part of these guys salaries (messam too)?

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Ok guys, probably Fekitoa if he's available, but i was presuming he'd be doing the sevens thing. Ranger was actually pretty damn good in his last season for the blues, particularly on defence. I was never a Ranger fan prior to that.

SBW definitely has not got even close to the form he found immediately prior to join to the roosters. I think it will be Fekitoa on the reserves, not SBW in our top team at the WC.

And i fully agree that stats don't mean a lot. At times rushing out of the line isn't a huge risk to the team. Sam Cane does this all the time, to allow the other forwards to win the ruck. But I still think Fekitoa is a little green. He needs to calm his excitement at times - its almost like he is trying a bit too hard - in order to cut down on some of the errors he's made at the top level.

 

[nickdnz]

And i fully agree that stats don't mean a lot. At times rushing out of the line isn't a huge risk to the team. Sam Cane does this all the time, to allow the other forwards to win the ruck. But I still think Fekitoa is a little green. He needs to calm his excitement at times - its almost like he is trying a bit too hard - in order to cut down on some of the errors he's made at the top level.

Comparing the same tactics of Sam Cane and Fekitoa doesn't really work, as Sam Cane was the fifth highest tackler in Super Rugby and still tackled at 96.5%. Surely that illustrates Fekitoa needs to improve on his defense..

 

[rugby_mad]

with Ardie Savea going for 7s, i hope Elliot Dixon gets a call up to All Blacks! He was phenomenal for Highlanders Super Rugby campaign!

 

[jessta]

Midfield is the most interesting with the stalwarts Nonu and smith leaving. It will be interesting to see if the Abs stick with this same set up that's worked so well. Power/ bruising runner at 12 - tactical genius at 13.

Power runners: moala, fekitoa, tamanivalu, SBW, Buckman, ranger

Generals: crotty, ngatai

I think Moala is shaping up to be a reincarnation of Nonu. Very similar players and I wouldn't be surprised if he became long term starting 12.

A combo of him and fekitoa is very very scary... But unbalanced. Both are not great distributors.

I think Crotty will start for sure at either 12 or 13 with Koala or Fekitoa.

 

[jessta]

1. Wyatt Crockett
2. Dane Coles
3. Owen Franks
4. Brodie Retallick
5. Sam Whitelock
6. Victor Vito
7. Sam Cane
8. Kieran Read
9. Aaron Smith
10. Aaron Cruden
11. Julian Saves
12. Ryan Crotty
13. Malakai Fekitoa
14. Waisake Naholo
15. Ben Smith

16. Codie Taylor
17. Joe Moody
18. Nepo Lalaula
19. Patrick Tuipulotu
20. Matt Todd
21. TJ Perenara
22. Beuden Barrett
23. George Moala

 

[CaliRa1]

1 J Moody
2 D Coles
3 O Franks
4 B Retallick
5 S Whitelock
6 S Luatua
7 S Cane
8 K Read
9 A Smith
10 A Cruden / L Sopoaga
11 J Savea
12 N Milner-Skudder
13 M Fekitoa
14 W Naholo
15 B Smith

16 C Taylor / N Harris
17 C Faumuina
18 N Laulala
19 P Tuipulotu
20 M Todd / E Dixon / B Shields
21 TJ Perenara
22 B Barrett
23 I Dagg

No SBW Messam Vito A Savea

 

[CaliRa1]

This is what our depth looks right now like at each position
FB B Smith I Dagg C Piutau N Milner-Skudder C Jane R Buckman S Stevenson
WG J Savea W Naholo B Smith R Ranger N Milner-Skudder C Jane C Piutau H Gear F Halai G Moala S Tamanivalu P Osborne Ja Lowe
CT C Smith M Fekitoa S Tamanivalu F Saili B Stanley
2F M Nonu SB Williams R Crotty C Ngatai G Moala
FH D Carter L Sopoaga A Cruden B Barrett C Slade T Taylor I West O Black D McKenzie
SH A Smith TJ Perenara T Kerr-Barlow B Weber M Drummond A Ellis J Cowan TT Tahuriorangi
N8 K Read V Vito N Manu L Whitelock A Ioane J Edwards
OS R McCaw S Cane M Todd A Savea L Braid B O'Connor B Gibson J Taufua
BS J Kaino S Luatua L Messam B Shields E Dixon B Thomson
SR B Retallick S Whitelock P Tuiulotu L Romano J Thrush J Broadhurst D Bird J Bekhuis J Wheeler
TH O Franks C Faumuina N Laulala O Tu'ungafasi J Toomaga-Allen B Tameifuna A Ta'avao A Moli T Koloamatangi
LH T Woodcock W Crockett B Franks J Moody K Hames J MacKintosh B Edmonds C Eves S Prattley
HK D Coles K Mealamu C Taylor N Harris H Elliot J Parsons

 

[Lardinho]

who cares? They won't win the wolrd cup, so this is a moot point.