Post-RWC All Blacks Team?

[Shaggy]

He's around 6'5'', so if he isn't seen as a lineout option now he could certainly become one. Still huge amount of time to develop (he'll only be turning 21 by the time the June series runs around!!).

Well that's good news ... I agree, he's got time to develop, bring him in gradually, like they did with Cane, and by 2019, he should be near his peak physically (I guess he has to secure a starting spot in the Blues as well).

I guess Ardie Savea is out of the mix next year with the Olympics happening, but would like to see him put some pressure on Cane and Todd for the openside position ... I could see him being a great sub in the forwards, having a great impact in much the same way Barrett has in the backs

 

[ABs2011]

Well that's good news ... I agree, he's got time to develop, bring him in gradually, like they did with Cane, and by 2019, he should be near his peak physically (I guess he has to secure a starting spot in the Blues as well).

I guess Ardie Savea is out of the mix next year with the Olympics happening, but would like to see him put some pressure on Cane and Todd for the openside position ... I could see him being a great sub in the forwards, having a great impact in much the same way Barrett has in the backs

Yeah he will get the majority of starts at #8 I reckon. Perhaps (barring injury) Kaino, Luatua ad Ionane will share the 6 & 8 duties.

As for Savea, I'm not sure he has done his AB chances much good signing on with the 7s team. He is giving Todd and Cane a massive start in pusshing for that starting spot and I'm not sure (barring injury) he will be able to leap them both before 2019. You may be right that he becomes a super-sub! I have question marks about his maturity as well.

 

[Kiwi_]

Yeah he will get the majority of starts at #8 I reckon. Perhaps (barring injury) Kaino, Luatua ad Ionane will share the 6 & 8 duties.

As for Savea, I'm not sure he has done his AB chances much good signing on with the 7s team. He is giving Todd and Cane a massive start in pusshing for that starting spot and I'm not sure (barring injury) he will be able to leap them both before 2019. You may be right that he becomes a super-sub! I have question marks about his maturity as well.

I'm just wondering if Ardie has been asked to do 7's from the AB management as further development for fitness and support play. I know Nonu was advised to do 7's for these exact reasons earlier in his career, who knows, they might even look at Ardie as a future centre afterwards (maybe a little far fetched, but not impossible).

 

[ABs2011]

OK lads, I'm gonna sign off. Will be back in 4 years hopefully to enjoy a bit more rugby banter and healthy debate when we go for the 3-peat in Japan '19.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

My (inevitably futile) attempt at predicting a 32 man squad to start us off for 2016:

Hookers - Dane Coles, Codie Taylor, Nathan Harris
I think this is fairly predictable. Ultimately the third spot will go to the hooker who impresses most in Super Rugby, I think Harris has the inside running there.

Props - Wyatt Crockett, Joe Moody, Owen Franks, Charlie Faumuina, Nepo Laulala
Also pretty straightforward. The only alternative would be bringing in a guy who can cover both sides of the scrum, but no one comes to mind who can do that any better than Moody and Laulala currently can.

Locks - Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Patrick Tuipulotu, Dominic Bird
It will likely be a straight choice between Bird, Broadhurst, and another loose forward. I know Hansen isn't the biggest Bird fan, but he's played well recently and he'll be starting week in, week out for the Chiefs so he has a great opportunity to stake his claim.

Loose Forwards - Kieran Read, Jerome Kaino, Sam Cane, Akira Ioane, Matt Todd
With Savea pursing Sevens I don't think he'll get an All Blacks berth next year. Todd is the next best openside behind Cane (assuming McCaw doesn't stick around) and Ioane is an absolute freak. Kaino still has a fair bit to offer and his experience will be invaluable.

Halfbacks - Aaron Smith, Tawera Kerr-Barlow, TJ Perenara
I can see Weber pushing Perenara for a spot, due to their similar play-styles, but I can't see much experimentation otherwise.

First Fives - Aaron Cruden, Beauden Barrett, Lima Sopoaga
Straight forward selections. The only other possibility in my opinion is them running with just the two first fives and leaving Sopoaga out.

Midfield - Malakai Fekitoa, Charlie Ngatai, George Moala
Rene Ranger is an outside chance, as is Seta Tamanivalu. Pair Ngatai up with either of the two other guys though and you have a good combination. I think Ryan Crotty and Richard Buckman won't be far behind, but I don't see either getting in ahead of the already mentioned guys.

Outside Backs - Ben Smith, Waisake Naholo, Nehe Milner-Skudder, James Lowe
Israel Dagg and Cory Jane are both possibilities, and Savea may or may not be available. Lowe was near selection this year and if he can continue to show the same form he did for the Chiefs then I'd be surprised if they didn't pick him up.

 

[smartcooky]

This is my revised* All Blacks starting XV plus reserves for the first Test Match of 2016 v Wales, 11 June 2016 - Eden Park.

Forwards
1. Wyatt Crockett
2. Dane Coles
3. Owen Franks
4. Brodie Retallick
5. Sam Whitelock
6. Jerome Kaino
7. Sam Cane
8. Kieran Read (captain)

Backs
9. Aaron Smith
10. Aaron Cruden
11. Julian Savea
12 Charlie Ngatai
13 Malakai Felkitoa
14 Waisake Naholo
15 Ben Smith

Reserves 5/3 split
16 Cody Taylor
17 Nepo Laulala
18 Joe Moody
19 Victor Vito
20 Matt Todd

21 Nehe Milner-Skudder
22 Beauden Barrett
23 T.J. Perenara


*revised because when I originally posted this, I had SBW and Ardie Savea in the team, not realising that they have opted for Sevens in 2016.

 

[PacDuran]

Barrett, Cruden, and Sopoaga will all get a shot at the 10 in '16, BUT for now I'd say Cruden tops the list. Barrett is just too darn good off the bench for his own good. The lack of versatility that Sopoaga and Cruden offer I think advantages them when it comes to the starting spot. For me the incumbent is still Cruden now that DC has gone.

What happened to dropping Read though? You gave up on that pretty quick and now have him starting and as Captain!

Oh yeah didn't see old Ready there. You see this proves my point about how anonymous he is haha

He's been a liability at this world cup man. NZ won in spite of him. Brodie Retallick or Whitelock should be given the captain's armband.

 

[tompaton7]

I reckon the squad for the series against us boyos in June will look something like this:

Props - Wyatt Crockett, Joe Moody, Pauliasi Manu, Charlie Faumuina, Owen Franks, Nepo Laulala

Hookers - Codie Taylor, Dane Coles, Nathan Harris

Locks - Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Mitchell Dunshea, Patrick Tuipolotu

Back Rowers - Jerome Kaino, Victor Vito, Sam Cane, Mitch Karpik, Akira Ioane, Kieran Read (c)

Scrum Halves - Aaron Smith, Tawera Kerr-Barlow, TJ Perenara

Fly Halves - Aaron Cruden, Beauden Barrett, Lima Sopoaga, Damien McKenzie

Centres - Malakai Fekitoa, Ryan Crotty, Charlie Ngatai, Rene Ranger

Back-Three - Ben Smith, Julian Savea, Patrick Osbourne, Waisake Naholo, Nehe Milner-Skudder

For the first two tests I reckon we'll see the following team or something similar and in brackets is the team I reckon will used for the third test:

1. Crockett (Moody), 2. Coles (Taylor), 3. Franks (Faumuina), 4. Whitelock, 5. Retallick (Tuipolotu), 6. Kaino (Vito), 7. Cane, 8. Read (c). 9. Smith, 10. Cruden (Sopoaga), 11. Savea (Osbourne), 12. Crotty (Ngatai), 13. Fekitoa, 14. Milner-Skudder (Naholo), 15. Smith
BENCH: 16. Taylor (Harris), 17. Moody (Manu), 18. Faumuina (Laulala), 19. Tuipolotu (Dunshea), 20. Vito (Ioane), 21. Kerr-Barlow (Perenara), 22. Barrett, 23. Ranger

Might also Karpik on the bench for one of the games as well but you see what I mean. They will always try to have one experienced player in the units. Like in the backs Ben Smith will stick with an inexperienced back three and Sopoaga will play with Smith. Hansen will find a way to have experience in the frame. I also think Karpik and Ioane will get like 10 minutes in this series, barring injury. They'll be eased in, as will a guy like Dunshea. The centre pairing is an interesting conundrum though, I'm honestly not sure how it will play out. I'm still wondering if all that game time given to Fekitoa last year at 12 was to groom him into a future Nonu but they aren't overly similar in the way they play which makes me have my doubts.

 

[Jaguares]

So the main worry is the #12 spot. Sam Cane can replace Richie McCaw at 7 and Aaron Cruden has played at good level with the black jersey. Without Nonu and SBW, the #12 looks like the weak spot. Crotty and Ngatai are decent players at Super Rugby level but Nonu and SBW (At his best) play in another league. So this would be the weak spot for the ABs. The #12 always has been a HUGE weapon for the Kiwis, next season I'm not sure about it.

 

[nickdnz]

Dunshea would be well out of felt field. Even Karpik and Damien Mckenzie would be huge bolters.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Isn't Akira Ioane in the NZ sevens squad?

 

[nickdnz]

Isn't Akira Ioane in the NZ sevens squad?

He is yeah.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Just revisiting this thread. One player who hasn't been mentioned and I'm surprised at is Elliot Dixon of the Highlanders - MOM in the Super Rugby final and grabbed a brace v the Tahs at the weekend. He seems to have carried his 2015 form into 2016. From what I've seen he's got a a lot of great attributes for a 6: great carrier, aggressive tackler, gets off the ground and makes a few steals at line out time, hits/clears out rucks and only 25/26.

 

[smartcooky]

Just revisiting this thread. One player who hasn't been mentioned and I'm surprised at is Elliot Dixon of the Highlanders - MOM in the Super Rugby final and grabbed a brace v the Tahs at the weekend. He seems to have carried his 2015 form into 2016. From what I've seen he's got a a lot of great attributes for a 6: great carrier, aggressive tackler, gets off the ground and makes a few steals at line out time, hits/clears out rucks and only 25/26.

To me, he brings all the best attributes of a 6 to the jersey; speed, mobility, agility, quick thinking, excellent ball skills and he's an absolutely uncompromising tackler - the blindside of the scrum is closed and bolted

One of the Aussie commentators called him "the everywhere man", and its a good description... sometimes it seems like there's two of him on the field.

And. he plays No. 8 as well!

 

[Jaguares]

Just revisiting this thread. One player who hasn't been mentioned and I'm surprised at is Elliot Dixon of the Highlanders - MOM in the Super Rugby final and grabbed a brace v the Tahs at the weekend. He seems to have carried his 2015 form into 2016. From what I've seen he's got a a lot of great attributes for a 6: great carrier, aggressive tackler, gets off the ground and makes a few steals at line out time, hits/clears out rucks and only 25/26.

I agree. He could play at 8 because he's current form is better than Read and Kaino has few years of career so he's a good option. What about Ngatai at 12? He's another option IMO

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I agree. He could play at 8 because he's current form is better than Read and Kaino has few years of career so he's a good option. What about Ngatai at 12? He's another option IMO

Ngatai has been mentioned as possible replacement on this thread for Nonu at 12. I think it boils down to which of Crotty or Ngatai partner Fekitoa at 13, until SBW is available after the Olympics. I expect Hansen to plump for Crotty and Fekitoa, due to their experience to start the 1st test v Wales and then bring through Ngatai later on, either as a sub or in the 2nd or 3rd tests, once the series is wrapped up.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

He's around 6'5'', so if he isn't seen as a lineout option now he could certainly become one. Still huge amount of time to develop (he'll only be turning 21 by the time the June series runs around!!).

I've yet to see Ioane take a line out ball for the Blues. i wonder if he struggles to get off the ground as easily, which is why they go hit Luatua/Kaino more often than not if not going for one of their locks. This is one area why someone like Read is so important for the ABs.

By way of comparison Itoje for England is just amazing at getting off the ground and stealing line out ball for someone of the same height and similar weight/mass.

 

[nickdnz]

I've yet to see Ioane take a line out ball for the Blues. i wonder if he struggles to get off the ground as easily, which is why they go hit Luatua/Kaino more often than not if not going for one of their locks. This is one area why someone like Read is so important for the ABs.

By way of comparison Itoje for England is just amazing at getting off the ground and stealing line out ball for someone of the same height and similar weight/mass.

Well yes, you would expect Itoje to take a lot of linouts, being played often in the second row.

Ioane has taken one lineout in 4 games this season. He took 6 last season for Auckland. With Kaino and Luatua all being good lineout jumpers - the Blues may prefer to just use him as a tall lifter.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Well yes, you would expect Itoje to take a lot of linouts, being played often in the second row.

Ioane has taken one lineout in 4 games this season. He took 6 last season for Auckland. With Kaino and Luatua all being good lineout jumpers - the Blues may prefer to just use him as a tall lifter.

Regardless of where Itoje is played, lock (you only have to look at Will Skelton to know he's not much of factor come lineout time) or at 6, his ability to spring upwards, without being lifted is pretty astonishing. He stole one or two lineouts during the 6 nations without being lifted. That's down to his pure athleticism.

As for Akira Ioane - 1 line out in 4 games in Super Rugby and 6 in total appears a poor return for me and suggests he needs a lot of work in this area and is not a natural jumper; for all his pace, ball carrying ability, which is unquestioned. But, he's only 20, so plenty of time. But in the mean time, for the talk of him being the immediate understudy for Kanio at 6, ABs may prefer Luatua or Dixon who are more able in this area. And I've read comments by Kiwis who think he'll replace Read at 8 within 2 years, as a bit laughable, seeing as Read is such a key component of the ABs come lineout time.

 

[nickdnz]

Regardless of where Itoje is played, lock (you only have to look at Will Skelton to know he's not much of factor come lineout time) or at 6, his ability to spring upwards, without being lifted is pretty astonishing. He stole one or two lineouts during the 6 nations without being lifted. That's down to his pure athleticism.

As for Akira Ioane - 1 line out in 4 games in Super Rugby and 6 in total appears a poor return for me and suggests he needs a lot of work in this area and is not a natural jumper; for all his pace, ball carrying ability, which is unquestioned. But, he's only 20, so plenty of time. But in the mean time, for the talk of him being the immediate understudy for Kanio at 6, ABs may prefer Luatua or Dixon who are more able in this area. And I've read comments by Kiwis who think he'll replace Read at 8 within 2 years, as a bit laughable, seeing as Read is such a key component of the ABs come lineout time.

I just don't think he's been used there much, but realistically we have some of the best lineout options in the world currently in the All Blacks, I wouldn't be worried about him not being used there a great deal. Messam has hardly been a star lineout option over the last few seasons there.