Prem Rugby to seek investors if RFU backs relegation-free franchise league
The league wants a new cash injection after a turbulent few years, with several US investors understood to be interested in buying into English sport
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- Thread starter Which Tyler
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Tbh I don't see another option at this stage. Investment in the clubs is basically contingent on them being in the top flight, and if anyone went down there is a good chance they'd go bust.
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Could not have chosen a worse logo for an already very low quality joke.
The premiership was actually good to watch when they had relegation though. It’s a catch 22 but either way now half the games are pointless and no one wants or cares enough to watch them.
How does this also work with the CVC deal which surely must have shown the teams that investment didn’t actually help long term.
Let’s invest loads of money to keep the game the same and not get any more people watching it. If investment is just propping up the current status quo it’s failed.
How does this also work with the CVC deal which surely must have shown the teams that investment didn’t actually help long term.
Let’s invest loads of money to keep the game the same and not get any more people watching it. If investment is just propping up the current status quo it’s failed.
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I've come to the conclusion that rugby in England as a professional sport will likely die in my lifetime.
Brown Bottle
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I've heard this said often but I don't think it holds up. Attendances and viewing figures have been going up since the game went professional but there's hardly ever been any relegation jeopardy. Even when relegation was actually a thing, the team that was going down was usually obvious after 5 or 6 games and quite often before a game was played.
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I'm not sure where I sit on this. Saints went down in 2007. Seems mad that you can now just comfortably sit bottom of the prem for a number of season with 2/3 wins at best and have no jeopardy what so ever. Other than the financial ramifications clearly.
My understanding is most revenue for clubs is now via match day and there all scared stiff of losing that if they get relegated.
My understanding is most revenue for clubs is now via match day and there all scared stiff of losing that if they get relegated.
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If franchises is the way forward, then after more open salary cap is needed, to make teams more equal.
Also, needs to have a draft.
Finally, academies need to be removed from PRL clubs, and added to RFU so that best talent can be moved to teams.
Otherwise, clubs with money will be able to develop better players and so skew the league structure.
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This is extremely unworkable.
"Yes, 15 year old child, we are forcing you to move from London to Newcastle. No, you don't have a choice..."
What's the ******* point in the sport, at that point?
How can you possibly have any connection to your local team if they have no connection to the local area
Meh, if they go with franchises and officially removing promotion/relegation, then they can do whatever else they like; they'll have already told me that I'm not wanted as a customer.
Sale and Quins accounts make grim reading on the face of it
Yeah we're completely ****** if we can't maintain a sugar daddy at all times
Not really sure what the answer is, think the sport definitely needs pro rugby in the north west but it's just not sustainable in it's current state - guess Sale's thinking is hoping success on the pitch breeds success off it, so keep pumping in money in the hope that the tide turns, but nothing really seems to change the gate numbers, and we get blocked at every turn trying to get our own stadium
Not really sure what the answer is, think the sport definitely needs pro rugby in the north west but it's just not sustainable in it's current state - guess Sale's thinking is hoping success on the pitch breeds success off it, so keep pumping in money in the hope that the tide turns, but nothing really seems to change the gate numbers, and we get blocked at every turn trying to get our own stadium
Hopefully ITV keeping the 6N and getting the Nation's Cup will get more people interested next year. Needing Sky, TNT and Premier to watch everything is still bananas though.
It holds up in a different context and you’d also have to look at which team attendances numbers are up and which are not.
If you take a relegation season where fewer teams also qualify for Europe (when it was worth being in). There were tons of games of interest even and relegation wasn’t guaranteed until later in the season. The bottom half of the table was a lot more competitive with each other and there were some classic games with the bottom teams actually caring.
These days nearly all qualify for Europe (which is super) and the lower teams have nothing to play for and the viewers have nothing to watch.
On a separate point I also think having all community rugby played the same time as the premiership is just stupid.
Hundreds of rugby players who don’t follow a team and can’t easily watch one.
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The problem with that is the obvious disconnect between international rugby and club rugby, especially in England. Large chunks of fans just don't go to the other. You don't see the RFU plugging the PREM or heavily advertising for it at any of their international fixtures or TV coverage. The PREM (and other pro rugby below that) does not get much press attention either, whereas internationals will be frequently front and centre. Even "nothing" friendlies.
It's not just England where it's an issue, international rugby in general has been cannibalising the game underneath it, perhaps with the exception of France. Partly infrastructure but also because the clubs stood up against to their union on multiple occasions.
I don't see an easy fix. There has to be less international matches though, even world cups don't even feel special any more.
Also no one cares about a made up nations cup. Tours worked well, this stupid made up cup for one extra game isn’t going to make any new friends in the world of rugby.
My structural suggestion hasn't changed too much in 20-odd years since coming up with it.
Of course, it requires coins to see each other as collaborators, not antagonists.
Europe: (NB, Africa is a different continent to Europe)
3 tournies, each of 4 pools of 4
4 Prem
5 URC
6 T14
+ Winner of the next level down.
3rd tier is the remaining Prem, URC & T14 + the likes of Georgia, Romania, Spain and Portugal.
I'd go with QF, SF & Final, but each tournie has a Cup and a Plate phase (no dropping down).
I'd play all pool matches in 1 block, December and January
England:
Prem of 10 teams, Champ of 14, reduced MSCs, both covered in 1 TV deal that includes 1 match from each on terrestrial each week.
Equally, both covered by the same title sponsor.
Automatic promotion & Relegation.
No SF for the Prem. Top 2 face off in the final, league points difference translates to scoreboard difference ahead of kick off.
Domestic cup involving all 24 teams - probably 4 pools of 6.
Prem club squads limited to players with fewer than say 20 (absolutely up for debate) starts (Prem, Euro & Test) in the previous season. Alternatively 18 of the 23 must be academy players/graduates for that club (again, lines in the sand are up for debate).
Domestic cup pool stages to be played during the 2 international windows (5 matches per window) then straight into SF and F (again with cup, plate, bowl, shield)
RFU get 1 training week ahead of AI and 1 ahead of the 6N, clubs play first round of that block of Dom Cup in that week.
I make this a 40 week season (1st Sat of Sept to 1st Sat of June).
Assuming AIs and 6N times are cast in stone:
8 Prem
5 Dom Cup & RFU time
2 Prem (dammit)
6 Euro
5 Dom Cup & RFU
2 Dom Cup KOs & RFU time
8 Prem
4 KOs for Prem & Euro
Presumably URC and T14 are happy enough playing through international windows, when we'd be playing Dom Cup.
I'd be okay with the old HC solution of filtering the QF at least into that post-6N block of club rugby.
Theoretically, T14 fits perfectly into the same structure, playing straight through the international windows; including holding their final the week before the Euro final. Of course, they want the T14 final to be the climax of the season, but they've easy options of delaying the start of the season, or adding rest weeks in there, or both.
URC have 18 rounds, QF, SF & F - so an extra 2 weeks than us, which can be played when our boys are training with RFU, and we're 1st and 6th rounds of the Dom Cup. If they want to, of course.
IF (big if) we could then find 23 weekends (and enough players) in there from the 28 Prem & Euro weekends for a 23 team U21s (play everyone once) as well, that would be spiffing.
Of course, it requires coins to see each other as collaborators, not antagonists.
Europe: (NB, Africa is a different continent to Europe)
3 tournies, each of 4 pools of 4
4 Prem
5 URC
6 T14
+ Winner of the next level down.
3rd tier is the remaining Prem, URC & T14 + the likes of Georgia, Romania, Spain and Portugal.
I'd go with QF, SF & Final, but each tournie has a Cup and a Plate phase (no dropping down).
I'd play all pool matches in 1 block, December and January
England:
Prem of 10 teams, Champ of 14, reduced MSCs, both covered in 1 TV deal that includes 1 match from each on terrestrial each week.
Equally, both covered by the same title sponsor.
Automatic promotion & Relegation.
No SF for the Prem. Top 2 face off in the final, league points difference translates to scoreboard difference ahead of kick off.
Domestic cup involving all 24 teams - probably 4 pools of 6.
Prem club squads limited to players with fewer than say 20 (absolutely up for debate) starts (Prem, Euro & Test) in the previous season. Alternatively 18 of the 23 must be academy players/graduates for that club (again, lines in the sand are up for debate).
Domestic cup pool stages to be played during the 2 international windows (5 matches per window) then straight into SF and F (again with cup, plate, bowl, shield)
RFU get 1 training week ahead of AI and 1 ahead of the 6N, clubs play first round of that block of Dom Cup in that week.
I make this a 40 week season (1st Sat of Sept to 1st Sat of June).
Assuming AIs and 6N times are cast in stone:
8 Prem
5 Dom Cup & RFU time
2 Prem (dammit)
6 Euro
5 Dom Cup & RFU
2 Dom Cup KOs & RFU time
8 Prem
4 KOs for Prem & Euro
Presumably URC and T14 are happy enough playing through international windows, when we'd be playing Dom Cup.
I'd be okay with the old HC solution of filtering the QF at least into that post-6N block of club rugby.
Theoretically, T14 fits perfectly into the same structure, playing straight through the international windows; including holding their final the week before the Euro final. Of course, they want the T14 final to be the climax of the season, but they've easy options of delaying the start of the season, or adding rest weeks in there, or both.
URC have 18 rounds, QF, SF & F - so an extra 2 weeks than us, which can be played when our boys are training with RFU, and we're 1st and 6th rounds of the Dom Cup. If they want to, of course.
IF (big if) we could then find 23 weekends (and enough players) in there from the 28 Prem & Euro weekends for a 23 team U21s (play everyone once) as well, that would be spiffing.
I've always liked the idea of Europe following the domestic comps instead of the stop-start nature it currently is.
So for me the calendar would go:
Domestic comps (Prem, URC, T14)
AI's
remainder of domestic comps inc. finals.
6N (pushed back slightly, which would be better anyway imo with nice spring weather)
Europe (all in one block)
I think fans could understand this better, properly get behind their team, rather than not knowing what comp their even playing in that week?
Yeah, I like that, but...
You either spring into Europe without knowing who's in the competition much more than a week in advance for planning away trips etc.
Or, you base it on the previous season's domestic rankings - having already declared them out of date.
Or, you move the 6N - which I'm assuming is cast in stone (though I don't know why we couldn't have used the reduced week to delay it by a week).
There's also the issue that the Prem has 18 weekends and 2 KO rounds (which I'd reduce to 1); URC has 18 weekends and 3 KO; whilst T14 has 26 weekends and 5 KO rounds. Which means Prem and URC dictating to France when they're going to play their matches. whilst remembering that for the French, the Brennus Shield is a higher target than the Hieneken Cup, and it's what they want as the climax of the season. They're simply not going to countenance the idea of playing through the AI window, and then playing their knock-out stages during the 6N - or having a 9 week break between the end of the league stage and start of the KO stage
You either spring into Europe without knowing who's in the competition much more than a week in advance for planning away trips etc.
Or, you base it on the previous season's domestic rankings - having already declared them out of date.
Or, you move the 6N - which I'm assuming is cast in stone (though I don't know why we couldn't have used the reduced week to delay it by a week).
There's also the issue that the Prem has 18 weekends and 2 KO rounds (which I'd reduce to 1); URC has 18 weekends and 3 KO; whilst T14 has 26 weekends and 5 KO rounds. Which means Prem and URC dictating to France when they're going to play their matches. whilst remembering that for the French, the Brennus Shield is a higher target than the Hieneken Cup, and it's what they want as the climax of the season. They're simply not going to countenance the idea of playing through the AI window, and then playing their knock-out stages during the 6N - or having a 9 week break between the end of the league stage and start of the KO stage
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