Question for the Kiwi posters

Discussion in 'Rugby World Cup 2019' started by BobbyM, Oct 30, 2019.

  1. Cooper

    Cooper Academy Player

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    Hypothetically speaking, let's ignore Hansen's achievements prior to 2015 and judge him on this cycle.

    2016 - First loss ever to Ireland
    2017- Drawn series with a disorganized, controversially coached B&I Lions team, there was so much inner turmoil in that team, unbelievable we blew that series especially after winning the first test, mainly due to questionable tactics and selections as well.
    2018 - The Wellington test vs SA, a clear sign the team lacked leadership and composure in the tight spot.
    - Only 1 try scored vs England and Ireland on the end of the year tour, another loss to Ireland where we weren't in the game.
    2019 - Record loss to Australia in Perth, one of the worst Australian teams in history as well.
    - One of the worst All Black performances at a world cup ever, losing to England in the semi-final

    I mean guys like John Mitchell and John Hart at least had the excuse we genuinely weren't the best in the world at the time they were taking the team.

    During Mitchell's era, we were clearly 3rd best after England and Australia

    During Hart's era, Australia were dominant

    This cycle would rate just as bad, if not worse than both. What saves Steve is obviously his record prior to this cycle. But I think that England performance, was just as bad as Mitchell's performance vs Australia, probably not as bad as Hart's, but at least we actually looked like winning that game for 50 minutes of it.

    Agreed extended tenures can work and it was through the failure of 2007 that motivated Henry & Hansen, lucky they had the right personnel to achieve it too, but as you said, we went too far with the extension.

    Hiring Foster would be a mistake, he's just another extension of Hansen, when we need something completely new. We need a motivator and a coach able to get the best out of players, we have a lot of talented underperformers at the moment. The Ioane's, Laumape, players like Taufua not getting a look in, naturally some of the most gifted players in the game, but not being tapped into the right way.
     
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  3. Cooper

    Cooper Academy Player

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    I thought we approached the tournament mentally incorrect as well.

    We kept talking about trying to win the 3peat.

    We needed to stop, reset and act like we had never won the tournament before and the past was the past. New tournament, new mindset, get the players hungry, which they were not in the England game and the reporter nailed it.
     
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  4. 40/20

    40/20 Academy Player

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    I think our debate seems to have morphed a little bit... but if we're comparing eras, I think there's a key thing to consider.

    Hansen started '16 with a world championship winning team yes, but it was a team stripped of nearly 1000 test caps and as I mentioned earlier, some of the greatest players we've ever produced.

    Hart's first year came after the 95 loss, but the team he took over was largely intact. That 96 team won our first series on SA soil and Aussie were far from dominant during those first two years. From memory, we swept them through 96-97... we all remember that huge win in the Athletic Park mud in 96.

    The decline in his era started in 98 when the team dropped 5 on the trot after losing massively key players like Fitzpatrick, Bunce and Zinny to retirement all at the same time.

    So in that respect, he had a very similar rebuild task to what Hansen faced, but Hansen was far more successful overall.

    Yes that's a fair point, but at the same time, the team approached '15 with the mindset of being the first to win back-to-back which obviously worked out well.
     
  5. Cooper

    Cooper Academy Player

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    I'll try end it with this post, because I'm already harping on about it too much and I don't want to go into the territory of discrediting Hansen too much and disrespecting a fine legacy he left behind. For the record, I love what he's done for NZ rugby and the stability and maturing he's brought to the side like no other coach has managed.

    But honestly just feel he and the team have been let off the hook post RWC2019, mainly because of his achievements from 4+ years ago (a long time ago btw and with the greatest squad rugby has ever seen).

    Plenty of coaches do rebuilding jobs and rise from the ashes. Rassie just won a world cup after we thrashed them 57-0 2 years ago, I think they lost to Italy that year too? Eddie Jones just made a World Cup final after England couldn't even make it out off the group stage in 2015.

    Hansen had 4 years to "rebuild" this team and had the best depth and talent in the world to do it with.

    Of course he's a great coach, but questioning him and his methods is not unreasonable. It hasn't been good enough the last 2 years if we are 100% honest. Selections and tactics haven't been up to scratch and areas of our game neglected.

    I wouldn't be making these posts if we had turned up vs England and even just loss narrowly, but the fact he was out coached and we were out passion so compressively without an inquisition is frustrating from my point of view. Too much resting on the laurels for my liking.
     
  6. OneBlackEye

    OneBlackEye Academy Player

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    Who is letting him off the hook though? The media?

    I agree with pretty much all you've said but I'd also be annoyed to see it all over the press. He's retiring, it would be poor form and pointless to rake him over the coals. Same with retiring players. Throw Jordie under a bus though please.

    I don't live in NZ anymore so maybe I'm missing the feeling in the country?
     
  7. Zapphod

    Zapphod Academy Player

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    You aren't.

    There was a general sense that the ABs were off form and had been for at least a year, if it could be related to any previous cups I would have gone with 1991.
     
  8. Cooper

    Cooper Academy Player

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    Poor form to really go at him, sure. But not poor form to ask some simple questions, like WTF happened? One reporter attempted to ask him where was the hunger for the All Blacks and he took the poor blokes head off and literally threatened him to go outside for a fight!?

    It's a job and like every job, if you don't do it well, there will be scrutiny, and let's not forget, it's a very well paid job and that does not evolve 9-5 hours, 5 days a week 49 weeks of the year like most of us.
     
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