Race transformation in SA sport; the saga continues

[TRF_stormer2010]

http://www.sport24.co.za/OtherSport/South-Africa/Transformation-to-gather-pace-20140903

Will we ever reach a place where politics can stay outside of sport in this country? Sometimes this trumpet blowing seems to me a like a ploy to keep attention away from more critical spheres of governance (or rather non-governance). It's not like we don't have a corruption-, education-, housing-, basic services- et-, etc- crisis ATM.

It is reaching the point where I just don't have any words left. Will we see our rugby follow our Netball? From hanging about the #1 in the world spot to not even a footnote on the world stage in less than 10 years post Apartheid. The only thing keeping our Rugby and Cricket floating is the size of financial investments inherent in those sports in this country.

 

[TRF_heineken]

http://www.sport24.co.za/OtherSport/South-Africa/Transformation-to-gather-pace-20140903

Will we ever reach a place where politics can stay outside of sport in this country? Sometimes this trumpet blowing seems to me a like a ploy to keep attention away from more critical spheres of governance (or rather non-governance). It's not like we don't have a corruption-, education-, housing-, basic services- et-, etc- crisis ATM.

It is reaching the point where I just don't have any words left. Will we see our rugby follow our Netball? From hanging about the #1 in the world spot to not even a footnote on the world stage in less than 10 years post Apartheid. The only thing keeping our Rugby and Cricket floating is the size of financial investments inherent in those sports in this country.

To be fair, it seems that they are now more on the right track:

Our approach to transformation is bottom up.

We're not only looking at the national teams, we're looking at development versus high performance, and how the two are going to assist us to realise full transformation in South Africa.

Those 2 sentences makes me think that they have realised that it's the only way to go about, which will have the least amount of resistance.

I think Afriforum got their attention with the threat of going to the IRB (World Rugby) into boycotting the national team if Quotas were to be invoked.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

http://www.sport24.co.za/OtherSport/South-Africa/Transformation-to-gather-pace-20140903

Will we ever reach a place where politics can stay outside of sport in this country? Sometimes this trumpet blowing is to me a like a ploy to keep attention away from more critical spheres of governance (or rather non-governance). It's not like we don't have a corruption-, education-, housing-, basic services- et-, etc- crisis ATM.

fixed that for you.

Governments have there go to distraction topic for example Argentina and the Falkland's

and the government never really want to fix it as they are powerful tools for distracting voters.

 

[MauriSca7]

Well in football most of players are black,what does he want ? the complete exclusion of white people from sport ?
Having lived this crap in person (SARU forbade me to enter in SA rugby competition using excuses like you're not black,you don't support ANC you're not our "friend" bla bla bla) I'm very happy to not to be actively involved in South African rugby anymore

 

[TRF_heineken]

fixed that for you.

Governments have there go to distraction topic for example Argentina and the Falkland's

and the government never really want to fix it as they are powerful tools for distracting voters.

But that's the thing. It's not a distraction. The informed people who reads the newspapers knows what's going on and all the problems with the government. And this topic is just more fuel to the fire. We are passionate about all sports.

And the other thing is the Government WANTS to fix this, as it is basically the one part which they promised their voters equality and fairness, but to this point haven't found a decent solution.

Nelson Mandela used sport and the national teams to promote hope, freedom and democracy, and since then it has been a source of joy and release from the everyday problems our country face. If they meddle with sport, then they will have even more riots, which at this point is the last thing they need.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

But this is sport. You cannot promise Taz Fuzani that he can be the equal of Eben Etzebeth any more than you can promise me that I can be the equal of Usain Bolt. If anything, Fuzani has a 'more equal' chance than Etzebeth. Just look at guys like Mohoje, Nyakane and previously Kolisi. Sure, they are good and probably won't let the Bokke down but are they better than any number of white players behind them in the pecking order? Probably not.

The governement might want to fix this but at the end of the day black players have the advantage of the benefit of the doubt. I also won't be told black players aren't given advantage at lower levels as well; they've had the benefit of massive investment by SARU for a while now and promising players have access to top rugby schools.

 

[TRF_heineken]

But this is sport. You cannot promise Taz Fuzani that he can be the equal of Eben Etzebeth any more than you can promise me that I can be the equal of Usain Bolt. If anything, Fuzani has a 'more equal' chance than Etzebeth. Just look at guys like Mohoje, Nyakane and previously Kolisi. Sure, they are good and probably won't let the Bokke down but are they better than any number of white players behind them in the pecking order? Probably not.

The governement might want to fix this but at the end of the day black players have the advantage of the benefit of the doubt. I also won't be told black players aren't given advantage at lower levels as well; they've had the benefit of massive investment by SARU for a while now and promising players have access to top rugby schools.

Well the Government has to do something. And yes, Non-white players have been advantaged more recently, especially in lower levels. But at the end of the day we still get the cream of the crop. Look at the Baby Boks for example.

Luckily there are tournaments like the "Bokkie-week" where only White Afrikaans schools compete at, and a lot of the guys who perform there are then lured to Schools like Grey College, Affies, Paul Roos, etc.

Let's see what happens...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I agree and disagree. When you say the government has to do something, I say yes, do their job. That is help create sustainable (key!) job opportunities and make sure the feeders into that like education, infrastructure, services etc are maintained at high standdards in order to ensure competitiveness. But I believe the best way to accomplish those is to allow for development and growth at a low level and simply have meaningful yet streamlined (a good balance here is needed between thoroughness and time to achieve an efficient system of oversight) checks and oversights. The way our government tries to centralize every facet of society, micromanage and keep information in the dark can only turn out poorly (to put it lightly).

In time things will even out. I'd say in 20 years we have actually gone backwards in a very real sense; yes, we have gone forwards from where we were but our growth put alongside that of other countries we have, in fact and in a measurable sense, gone backwards relative to the rest of the world.

What BEE, affirmative action, quotas etc have done to date is further drive a wedge between races. The middle class white is now below the poverty line while the educated has gotten richer because of now doing work on a consultary base rather than beiing directly employed while it has meant very little to the majority rural population. it's been over 20 years now. Time for a change of approach IMO.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I agree and disagree. When you say the government has to do something, I say yes, do their job. That is help create sustainable (key!) job opportunities and make sure the feeders into that like education, infrastructure, services etc are maintained at high standdards in order to ensure competitiveness. But I believe the best way to accomplish those is to allow for development and growth at a low level and simply have meaningful yet streamlined (a good balance here is needed between thoroughness and time to achieve an efficient system of oversight) checks and oversights. The way our government tries to centralize every facet of society, micromanage and keep information in the dark can only turn out poorly (to put it lightly).

In time things will even out. I'd say in 20 years we have actually gone backwards in a very real sense; yes, we have gone forwards from where we were but our growth put alongside that of other countries we have, in fact and in a measurable sense, gone backwards relative to the rest of the world.

What BEE, affirmative action, quotas etc have done to date is further drive a wedge between races. The middle class white is now below the poverty line while the educated has gotten richer because of now doing work on a consultary base rather than beiing directly employed while it has meant very little to the majority rural population. it's been over 20 years now. Time for a change of approach IMO.

I agree 100% with you.

And the bolded part is now something they will try with regard to sports. If it works, then great! And I hope it will be used as a beacon for other areas to follow suit.

You don't have to convince me about our government and how utterly pathetic they are. I see how they operate on a daily basis, and shaking my head in disappointment is a regular occurance.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

So we have a resolution:

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/Boks-to-transform-over-5-years-20140907

The highlight for me even though the mandate on transformation at test level is less stringent than at ground level;

SARU have also set a mandate for Heyneke Meyer to select at least five black players to his squad for the 2015 RWC in England as well as include seven players of colour in his match-day squad in the lead up to the tournament.

On radio they made it clear that they wanted 5 'black' players in the starting team in RWC 2015 so that excludes Habana and Hendricks who aren't black enough. Beast counts so even though his form is dire ATM he'll be an automatic pick but we need 4 more so golden tickets to 4 of Mvovo, Nyakane, Kolisi, Mohoje, Ntubeni? but surely we can't start Ntubeni ahead of either of Bismarck or Strauss? It'd be very hard to drop some of our backrow for one of Mohoje or Kolisis who is half the player he was pre-injury. Dropping one of Le Roux, Habana or Hendricks for Mvovo will be a tough call as well. Who else though? Mapoe maybe? I like Senatla, maybe if he can stay fit. Beg Mujati to reconsider? If I were forced at gun point I'd probably go for;

1 Beast (1)
2 Bismarck
3 Mujati / Nyakane who has played at TH even if not his prefered- can't be mush worse than Jannie ATM (2)
4 Etzebeth
5 Mohoje somewhat out of position (3)
6 Louw
7 Kolisi (4)
8 Vermeulen
9 Du Preez
10 Pollard
11 Senatla
12 De Villiers
13 Serfontein
14 Mvovo (5)
15 Le Roux

Difficult.

 

[TRF_heineken]

So we have a resolution:

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/Boks-to-transform-over-5-years-20140907

The highlight for me even though the mandate on transformation at test level is less stringent than at ground level;



On radio they made it clear that they wanted 5 'black' players in the starting team in RWC 2015 so that excludes Habana and Hendricks who aren't black enough. Beast counts so even though his form is dire ATM he'll be an automatic pick but we need 4 more so golden tickets to 4 of Mvovo, Nyakane, Kolisi, Mohoje, Ntubeni? but surely we can't start Ntubeni ahead of either of Bismarck or Strauss? It'd be very hard to drop some of our backrow for one of Mohoje or Kolisis who is half the player he was pre-injury. Dropping one of Le Roux, Habana or Hendricks for Mvovo will be a tough call as well. Who else though? Mapoe maybe? I like Senatla, maybe if he can stay fit. Beg Mujati to reconsider? If I were forced at gun point I'd probably go for;

1 Beast (1)
2 Bismarck
3 Mujati / Nyakane who has played at TH even if not his prefered- can't be mush worse than Jannie ATM (2)
4 Etzebeth
5 Mohoje somewhat out of position (3)
6 Louw
7 Kolisi (4)
8 Vermeulen
9 Du Preez
10 Pollard
11 Senatla
12 De Villiers
13 Serfontein
14 Mvovo (5)
15 Le Roux

Difficult.

I'm sure Afriforum is on their way to the IRB right now to hand in the request to sanction SARU regarding the race discrimination they will do if they continue with this Idea.

Here are some guys that might make the cut:

1. Nyakane / Beast
2. Chilliboy / Ntubeni
3. ??
4. Mohoje
5. ??
6. Kolisi
7. ??
8. ??
9. ??
10. ??
11. Senatla
12. ??
13. ??
14. Ndungane twins
15. Mvovo

Mapoe doesn't count, he's a coloured, just like Guthro, Nizam Carr, Elton Jantjies and Cheslin Kolbe

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I'm sure Afriforum is on their way to the IRB right now to hand in the request to sanction SARU regarding the race discrimination they will do if they continue with this Idea.

Here are some guys that might make the cut:

1. Nyakane / Beast
2. Chilliboy / Ntubeni
3. ??
4. Mohoje
5. ??
6. Kolisi
7. ??
8. ??
9. ??
10. ??
11. Senatla
12. ??
13. ??
14. Ndungane twins
15. Mvovo

Mapoe doesn't count, he's a coloured, just like Guthro, Nizam Carr, Elton Jantjies and Cheslin Kolbe

This is where race classification gets silly. So, people of mixed race are just fooked. Mapoe we'd probably call Bantu in the Cape and Steenkamp many people assume is white. WTF, I can't believe we are forced to discuss this BS and it's 2014!

I say we move everyone the ANC sees as non traditional black to the W and N Cape which the 'traditional black's have no 'traditoinal' claim on and despite their best relocation efforts they are still in a minority here. Split this country in two. If we can keep the ~80% of the Cape's taxes going to the rest of SA we are golden! This is the route the ANC are driving too. I'm happy to go it forward with my colored brothers and level headed blacks. The ones that are anti-SA should probably relocate to ANC's Mzanzi. Or we should all f*** off and give teh country back to the Khoi people.

 

[TRF_heineken]

This is where race classification gets silly. So, people of mixed race are just fooked. Mapoe we'd probably call Bantu in the Cape and Steenkamp many people assume is white. WTF, I can't believe we are forced to discuss this BS and it's 2014!

I say we move everyone the ANC sees as non traditional black to the W and N Cape which the 'traditional black's have no 'traditoinal' claim on and despite their best relocation efforts they are still in a minority here. Split this country in two. If we can keep the ~80% of the Cape's taxes going to the rest of SA we are golden! This is the route the ANC are driving too.

Lol!!

Believe me when I say that this is far from over. Even when it is approved by the general council, there will be a big feud. And Afriforum will definitely do something about this, of that I'm 100% sure.

 

[Bull]

This corrupt SA government has this idea in their thick skulls that sport teams or should I say white dominated sport should be representative of the demographics of the country, the same way they have gone about and are going about government departments or semi government institutes. Merit counts for nothing when it comes to these buffoons. Sport will go the same route as everything else, down the ****ter. Black people in this country have a sense of entitlement regardless if they worked for it or not. You know you have real problems when 40 mil people out of 50 mil can't achieve anything without the intervention of their useless ANC party.

 

[MauriSca7]

when I was forming a rugby team in SA with some players I know,SARU didn't allow us to enter in any competition because I and the other founder weren't black,and because in their opinion we didn't have black players in the team (actually we had 10 black players)

 

[MauriSca7]

This corrupt SA government has this idea in their thick skulls that sport teams or should I say white dominated sport should be representative of the demographics of the country, the same way they have gone about and are going about government departments or semi government institutes. Merit counts for nothing when it comes to these buffoons. Sport will go the same route as everything else, down the ****ter. Black people in this country have a sense of entitlement regardless if they worked for it or not. You know you have real problems when 40 mil people out of 50 mil can't achieve anything without the intervention of their useless ANC party.

True words my friend

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

when I was forming a rugby team in SA with some players I know,SARU didn't allow us to enter in any competition because I and the other founder weren't black,and because in their opinion we didn't have black players in the team (actually we had 10 black players)

Your better off long run staying away from SA.

 

[MauriSca7]

Your better off long run staying away from SA.

Absolutely,now I'm away from rugby and I don't have any intention to visit SA again,I follow rugby only as fan but I'm not involved actively as before.
Currently I collaborate with some NFL players to organize a small american football tournament during the offseason period.
Mentality is completely different,nobody annoys me with political craps and soon accepted me without problems. The typical sentence I heard in rugby was "no you can't take part because you're not black/you're not famous/you're not friend of friends"

 

[Icemn]

Huge mistake, you cant pick based on color :X you need to pick on merit/form/class/gameplan/type of player (none in a specific order) that will contribute to fullfilling your vision of how the game should be played.

In saying that, if all 15 happen to be black so what? If they all happen to be white so what?? if these idiots can only see past this fcking color issue :X

Yes apartheid gave some classes a disadvantage and they trying to give those disadvantaged classes a fair chance but in te end the country as a sporting nation will suffer because that player MIGHT not be up to the level but he is picked because of ethnicity etc

this is such bull ****, i fcking hate it when people does stuff for the sake of doing something, you first identify your fcking problem before looking for solutions. If only politics can stay out of the game. Soccer in this country is the same. Politics, if you break it up in 2 words, poli and tics, poli a latin word meaning many and tics, blood sucking leeches...

 

[MauriSca7]

Huge mistake, you cant pick based on color :X you need to pick on merit/form/class/gameplan/type of player (none in a specific order) that will contribute to fullfilling your vision of how the game should be played.

In saying that, if all 15 happen to be black so what? If they all happen to be white so what?? if these idiots can only see past this fcking color issue :X

Yes apartheid gave some classes a disadvantage and they trying to give those disadvantaged classes a fair chance but in te end the country as a sporting nation will suffer because that player MIGHT not be up to the level but he is picked because of ethnicity etc

this is such bull ****, i fcking hate it when people does stuff for the sake of doing something, you first identify your fcking problem before looking for solutions. If only politics can stay out of the game. Soccer in this country is the same. Politics, if you break it up in 2 words, poli and tics, poli a latin word meaning many and tics, blood sucking leeches...

It's not a big surprise if a lot of SA players will move abroad and become eligible to play for other countries
Several Currie Cup players I know (above all from Border Bulldogs) said me to want to leave rugby because they're tired of politics and some of them asked me if I have place for them in my american football team