Replacement Super Series

[ChiefsFan]

The Southern Super Series

Featuring 18 Teams from 9 Different countries.

The teams would be based in the following areas:
New Zealand (North, Auckland, Waikato, Wellington/Central, Canterbury, South)
Australia (Australian Capital Teritory, New South Wales, Queensland, Western Australia, Gold Coast)
Argentina (Northern, Southern)
Samoa
Tonga
Fiji
Japan
USA/Canada

The 18 teams would be split up into two pools of nine. Each time would get two byes in a round robin format
competition which would take place over eighteen weeks. After the eighteen rounds the top four teams from
each pool would move into the finals series. Much like the old ANZC fromat each team would play the teams
they had not yet played before moving into the quarter finals with seedings based on final standings. While
this is taking place the other ten teams would move into a similar finals series broken up into one set of
quarter finals which be played similarly to the NRL. THe winner of this competition woold be bestowed with
the Plate while the overall winner would receive the trophy. THe whole competition would end up being 25 weeks
in total.

So, what do you think?

 

[Steve-o]

Where are the South African teams? Why's it called the Southern Super Series when NH teams are in it?

 

[ChiefsFan]

The name was made up on the spot, so I hadn't taken Canada/USA into consideration.

Lots of people have been complaining of the travel factor, the timezone factor and just in general about having South African teams in the competition. I'm not sure what they want done with the SA teams but I did it so it was only teams in a relative timezone apart from the C/USA team whihc would be situated in the East Coast of OZ.

 

[Ripper]

No.

Close Topic.

 

[ChiefsFan]

No.

Close Topic. [/b]

That's helpful.



You mind stating why?

 

[Prestwick]

My god, its a bloody monster! All fans wanted was an Argentinian franchise, not every rugby nation on earth!!!

 

[BLR]

My god, its a bloody monster! All fans wanted was an Argentinian franchise, not every rugby nation on earth!!!
[/b]

You're just jealous it is better then your pitiful Heineken cup.

 

[sanzar]

Gotta say it looks like a bloody mess to me :S .
Seriously, we need to expand the appeal of the Super 14, but adding north america still seems a little premature if you ask me. I think they need to get their own competative league up and running before that happens. And in any case Argentina and the PI nations are still more important really.

 

[Prestwick]

You're just jealous it is better then your pitiful Heineken cup. [/b]

My my aren't we fiesty today? As sanzar said, preemature and suffering from bloat.

Just because you're taking on every nation that can muster an xv doesn't mean it'll be fantastic. As sanzar said, give a franchise to the PI and one to argentina. Keep it simple, this is too much too fast and you're in danger of swinging to the opposite extreme.

 

[ChiefsFan]

In the NZ Herald recently they have revealed what they say is what SANZAR is considering for a new tournament.



What would happen is that the teams would be split up into three differnt 'conferences' of pools.



Conference 1

5/6* South Africa Teams

1 Argentinian Team



Conference 2

5/6* Australian Teams

1 Japanese Team



Conference 3

5/6* New Zealand Teams

1 Pacific Islander Team



Each team would play each team from their conference twice (home and away) but also play each other team only once. This would minimize (supposedly) the ammount of travel each player has to partake in.



Upon completion of pool rounds the teams would ove into Quarters, Semis and a Final. I'm not sure how seeding would be granted however.



---------------------------------------------------------------

My Opinions:



Althoughit would effectively be a new competition, it would be much of the same. I can't see how they would change the conferences after each year so basically teams would play the same teams every year, which supposedly is not what the players want. The TV show Re:Union proposed a similar idea. There would be two conferences, East and West.



East

Blues, Chiefs, Hurricanes, Crusaders, Highlanders

North America

Pacific Islanders

Reds, Waratahs, Brumbies



West

Sharks, Bulls, Lions, Cheetahs, Stormers

Two Argentinian Teams

Two Japanese Teams

Western Force



Each team would play the same teams in their conference twice (home and away) before moving into the quarters, semis and the final. Same kind of tournamnet really. Although it'll reduce travel factor I can't see it functioning well. It would effectively be two differnet competitions (Guiness Premiership, Top 14) but with finals between thetop four teams from each competition.



So what do you guys thin of these ideas? I can't really see either taking off. What would you change with them?

Notes:

* - It says on the Herald Website that each SANZAR nation would have 5 teams within the article, but upon conclusion it is changed to 6. I assume it is 5 as it mentions having 18 teams (5 NZ, 5 SA, 5 AU, 3 Other). Also, I can't imagine why they would want each nation to have six teams.

 

[Gay-Guy]

Proposal one:

This would be good obviously for the P.I, Argentine and Japanese teams.

This would be good for NZ because I have always believed that the Super14 keeps Austrlain rugby on the same level as NZ rugby and that NZ would not suffer as badly as Aus if we had more games amongst ourselves than if the Aussies did.

This would be good for South African rugby as they are always struggling having to do a bit more travel with how things are set up now.

This would be good for the kiwis wanting more money but not wanting to go to Europe. They may be able to get a big payout playing for a Japanese company whilst also being able to play for the Japanese franchise team.

I think it would be a good thing for everyone except Australia.



I don't like the second plan as I think the Western Force would have to travel more than they would with proposal one.

 

[BLR]

I mergeed the two topics because they are about the same thing...

Now, your second proposal is rubbish. The Australian derbies are the biggest matches in the Western Force callendar, the South African matches really don't interest most fans, compared to the NZ and Australian games that is....and why would North America be in Pool 1? They are so far from everyone else, why wouldn't they be with Argentina....I think that you are pushing your luck again with this idea, North America are logistically difficult....

 

[Charles]

North America shouldn't even be in the frame. That idiot JON is just saying anything that goes through his head to attract attention. Really thinking of having a NA team (made up of what players ?) in S14 is laughable to say the least. They wouldn't even beat the Lions...

 

[Ripper]

<div class='quotemain'> No.

Close Topic. [/b]

That's helpful.



You mind stating why?

[/b][/quote]

Because it's retarded.

No one but shitty Argie local club rugby players are going to play for the Argie based team, since like I've told you before, all the decent players are earning the coin in Europe, they couldn't trot out one remotely competitive team, let alone two. Situations the same with the Pacific Island player's, they are all in Japan, Europe or New Zealand.

The USA/Canada National teams would lose to most decent NPC or Currie Cup teams, ditto with the Japs, so they are either going to be made up of vastly inferior local players who are going to get pasted by 70 points every week, or they are going to be made up by rejects who are going to get pasted by 30 points every week, either way they'll be lucky to average a crowd above 150 each week and would be bankrupt in 2 weeks.

It won't help grow the game, it won't add to the spectacle, all it will do is push the cost's of the NZRFU and the other Union's even higher since they will have to jet 6 teams and their support staff to Argentina, Japan, Australia, USA and three Pacific Islands. And Murdoch sure as hell isn't going to foot the bill for the whole thing, the bankrupt Pacific Island Unions won't be able to afford run 3 teams, the amatuer Argentinan RU won't be able and I doubt Murdoch is going to fund 2 shitty North America team's to fly around the globe to get record hammerings every week.

 

[Fushitsusha]

I think that if Argentina and the PI's had their own teams involved in the S14 and there was good money there it might help draw those players away from Europe. Plus there's the added incentive of then being able to play for their countries on a more regular basis assuming that the Tri Nations would also be extended.

And in the long run it would only help develop the talents in some of these countries.

The lack of depth in the launch of such a competition could also be reduced by all of the teams opening up to overseas players. Once again if the money was there I'm sure there'd be no problem luring players from the Northern Hemisphere with the opportunity to play more rugby amonst/against those involved in the best rugby nations.

I'm sure the Waratahs would get filled with Englishmen wanting to spend their recovery sessions at Bondi.

Anyways, I do think the first proposal has merit.

I don't think North America can be considered. That would just complicate things waaay too much.

 

[Steve-o]

I really think USA, Canada, Argentina and maybe Japan should have their own comp. Making them compete against SANZAR teams is really throwing them in the deep end, to say they can actually compete against these teams consistently is ludacris.



Good brain storming though ChiefsFan, I think people are a bit frustrated with the proposals because they're not adressing the challenges that face SH rugby at the moment. Some aren't realistic as well.

Some of your proposals are light years ahead of where we are now, like 2 professional teams from Argentina.

All these plans have got me thinking, so keep the ideas coming, atleast the good ones

 

[Ripper]

I think that if Argentina and the PI's had their own teams involved in the S14 and there was good money there it might help draw those players away from Europe. Plus there's the added incentive of then being able to play for their countries on a more regular basis assuming that the Tri Nations would also be extended.
[/b]

Doubt it, if the NZRFU with the current Murdoch deal and the record sponsorship deal with Adidas can't even keep middle of the road Super 14 players, let alone top line All Blacks, how the hell are the still Amateur Argentinan Union with no major kit deal and what would be a smaller slice of the of the Murdoch monies than what we have now be able to lure their players back.

 

[BLR]

Doubt it, if the NZRFU with the current Murdoch deal and the record sponsorship deal with Adidas can't even keep middle of the road Super 14 players, let alone top line All Blacks, how the hell are the still Amateur Argentinan Union with no major kit deal and what would be a smaller slice of the of the Murdoch monies than what we have now be able to lure their players back.
[/b]

Well if you're going to dismiss every possibility because it seems difficult then rugby is just going to stagnate. Didn't JFK say something along the lines of 'we do this not because it is easy, because it is hard', and that the benefits are too great to ignore...buck up, we'll get there. The Union officials are smart enough about what can and can't be done. They won't do Chiefs Fans plan, that's what I can assure you...

 

[Ripper]

Sure it can happen, but we need baby steps for that sort of thing. To get Argentina involved we first have to get them into the Tri Nations - give them Super teams in 5-10 years when they have time to get systems in place for that sort of thing and chances to hoard more money away, it took a couple of years for the North to get up to speed when we dragged them kicking and screaming into professionalism in 1995, and it's probably going to take longer for the Argies to do it.

A successful Tri Nations is still SANZAR's main goal, if you can prove that Argentina can bring in the punters and the TV viewers at test level, than Murdoch will be willing to throw even in even more cash and would be willing to back the Super 14 adding more countries, meaning that they could start bringing players home. If we did it now, they would probably just have to use the same pie as now, but just dish out smaller pieces.

At the current climate, with declining viewership at all levels the TV Companies, the kit makers and major sponsors aren't going to take a major gamble.

Your going to have to do it right. To do it gung ho now and give them everything is stupid, it would just blow up. To gradually ease them into it is the right way.

 

[BLR]

Tri nations being expanded to include Argentina would be infinetely more difficult then adding a Argentine Super 14 team.

To add them to Tri nations we would have to seek a release for thier players from thier clubs, which is NOT going to happen without a hell of a fight.

The Super 14 team would follow the model of the Force or Cheetahs, have a few experienced players in the team from Europe with a large bulk of thier amateurs making up the squad. They will have a few tough years but have a lot more resources player wise then Perth, for example, so will get the amateur players up to scratch much more faster then we have done.

I think that Tri nations has become less watched because it has saturated the market so that the tests no longer mean as much as it used to. However Super 14 has a variety of teams and on expansion will have even more which will justify a longer season which means more viewers who, because of the variety of teams and the tribalism of supporting thier province, will hopefully stop the fatigue that occurs come Tri nations...

See how the SANZAR nations are still talking about it Ripper...your speaking about them doing something incorrectly that has basically only been brainstormed...give them time to formulate an adequate plan, they haven't made too many mistakes in the past...