Rugby World Cup 2023 - retrospective

[Herman the German]

Good morning to everyone, I'm gonna use this threat to share a couple of thoughts on the world cup and maybe this can end up in others doing the same.

At first, for the German rugby community a world cup in France was a gift, watching high class rugby live in near distance. Our TV coverage was decent also, still don't know if beyond the small community of rugby enthusiasts this can have any positive effects.

France organised it quite well either (despite others not sharing the opinion) and moving the game to the big stadiums to promote rugby around the country might bring fruits, despite the atmosphere in the rugby prone south might've been better (more games in Toulouse for example). The aspect of it being to long is of course valid, especially for those travelling from far, gonna be better though the next world cup with fewer pool games.

The world cup had a lot of entertaining games (and some of the obvious Tier 1 battering Tier 2). From France / NZ or France / Uruguay in Group A to the battles of Group B to the fight for the second place in C to Fiji and Portugal entertaining in Group D. Quarter and semi finals brought some close games, good fights. We can talk about reffing here, but refs are only human after all. The red card basically decided the final, still that'd not result in the All Blacks giving themselves up and they delivered a good game to the final whistle.

So long story short, all in all an enjoyable world cup and other than in association football the next world cup with more teams is something to look forward to, as the group stage will become shorter.

 

[General Melchett]

Just noticed this thread. I'll copy what I wrote in the RWC final thread:

For the next RWC I'd like to see the following:

1. A more compressed tournament with pool games spread throughout the week (including midweek). This one dragged on for too long and peaked at the QFs.
2. WR need to get the refs/officials aligned with their interpretations.
3. Obviously the seedings locked and draw made much closer to the comp.

 

[Twistie]

Just noticed this thread. I'll copy what I wrote in the RWC final thread:

For the next RWC I'd like to see the following:

1. A more compressed tournament with pool games spread throughout the week (including midweek). This one dragged on for too long and peaked at the QFs.
2. WR need to get the refs/officials aligned with their interpretations.
3. Obviously the seedings locked and draw made much closer to the comp.

How about heavy machine guns for the Fullback?

 

[BiggusLaddus]

I kind of agree that the pool stage is too drawn out, but if we have mid-week games then it will have lopsided effects by luck of the draw.

Some teams will have a hard match then play minnows and be able to rest their first 15, another will get the 2 toughest group matches 3 days apart.

 

[General Melchett]

How about heavy machine guns for the Fullback?

Interesting thought. Make a note of it Darling.

 

[Twistie]

Interesting thought. Make a note of it Darli

Yep needed a laugh after todays result

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

It kind of killed my enthusiasm for international rugby, I won't lie.

The final was nervy and that's to be expected but there was only really 4 top quality games in the cup and two of them in the group stages. From an entertainment perspective having the 5th (I think it's fair to put England ahead of Scotland who really didn't show up) and 7th best teams at the tournament in the semi finals was a disaster.

A format change with an expedited group stage will be welcome. Hopefully Ireland crack that but because we never figured out the 20 team format.

SA deserved it, purely through knowing how to get over the line when it mattered, they were also involved in the two highest quality games of the comp and possibly ever at RWCs. So marginal though between the top 4. Different ref selection, bounces of the ball, injuries etc… and it could have gone one of four ways. Which is why it's quite underwhelming that the last two weeks haven't been the top 4 battling it out for the cup and third place, it really could have been one for the ages and it wasn't.

4 more years of shitty QF jokes and a likely trough in Ireland's performances but we'll endeavour. Irish rugby does a lot more right than wrong and with a bit of luck we don't even need to be as strong as we were this comp to win one. David Humphries has done great stuff with English cricket and was a shrewd signing for us.

 

[Herman the German]

It kind of killed my enthusiasm for international rugby, I won't lie.

The final was nervy and that's to be expected but there was only really 4 top quality games in the cup and two of them in the group stages. From an entertainment perspective having the 5th (I think it's fair to put England ahead of Scotland who really didn't show up) and 7th best teams at the tournament in the semi finals was a disaster.

A format change with an expedited group stage will be welcome. Hopefully Ireland crack that but because we never figured out the 20 team format.

SA deserved it, purely through knowing how to get over the line when it mattered, they were also involved in the two highest quality games of the comp and possibly ever at RWCs. So marginal though between the top 4. Different ref selection, bounces of the ball, injuries etc… and it could have gone one of four ways. Which is why it's quite underwhelming that the last two weeks haven't been the top 4 battling it out for the cup and third place, it really could have been one for the ages and it wasn't.

4 more years of shitty QF jokes and a likely trough in Ireland's performances but we'll endeavour. Irish rugby does a lot more right than wrong and with a bit of luck we don't even need to be as strong as we were this comp to win one. David Humphries has done great stuff with English cricket and was a shrewd signing for us.

At least only until February 2nd it's not too long and then we'll see the final we all expected beforehand to the world cup. Both Ireland and France did a lot of things right and especially they actually played rugby. South Africa and to some extent NZ reduced their understanding of rugby to making less mistakes than the opponent, providing nevertheless tense games.

 

[BakkiesBokke]

I visited France after the first round of matches for work (sadly couldn't watch any games). I was a little surprised by the lack of World Cup fanfare at airports, supermarkets etc? I would have expected more World Cup fever from within France, particularly as they have such a scintillating team these days.

Hopefully the Aussie tournament grips the whole country and revives their rugby.

 

[Atmavictu]

Good morning to everyone, I'm gonna use this threat to share a couple of thoughts on the world cup and maybe this can end up in others doing the same.

At first, for the German rugby community a world cup in France was a gift, watching high class rugby live in near distance. Our TV coverage was decent also, still don't know if beyond the small community of rugby enthusiasts this can have any positive effects.

France organised it quite well either (despite others not sharing the opinion) and moving the game to the big stadiums to promote rugby around the country might bring fruits, despite the atmosphere in the rugby prone south might've been better (more games in Toulouse for example). The aspect of it being to long is of course valid, especially for those travelling from far, gonna be better though the next world cup with fewer pool games.

The world cup had a lot of entertaining games (and some of the obvious Tier 1 battering Tier 2). From France / NZ or France / Uruguay in Group A to the battles of Group B to the fight for the second place in C to Fiji and Portugal entertaining in Group D. Quarter and semi finals brought some close games, good fights. We can talk about reffing here, but refs are only human after all. The red card basically decided the final, still that'd not result in the All Blacks giving themselves up and they delivered a good game to the final whistle.

So long story short, all in all an enjoyable world cup and other than in association football the next world cup with more teams is something to look forward to, as the group stage will become shorter.

Not sure what games you went to....I went to 6 and the organization was one of the worst I have ever seen (I have been to 4 rugby World Cup, 5 football World Cup and 2 olympics).
The staff didn't know jackshit, queuing everywhere for 1 hour to get a bottle of water, some stadia access are incredibly dangerous, no atmosphere whatsoever in any city, fan zone were ridiculous at best.

Not sure how you can say it was well organized.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Some sort of Silver and bronze cups. Ireland/France/Fiji/Wales fighting it out for the Silver and Ita/Sco/Aus/Jap for the bronze. Have em play during the week. Less rest or whatever.

 

[OldSchoolRugga]

There were some really good games. Not a lot of sublime rugby being played, though. I refused to watch games with cricket scores. Does nothing for the game.
The camera angles the French used were baffling. The overhead shots for the kick-offs were very annoying.
Portugal, Georgia, Uruguay and Chile were fun to watch. Luckily refereeing decisions did not decide games, however the standard of refereeing is really poor.

Not a very memorable World Cup. Japan, for instance, was great fun. France hosting it 2nd time in under 2 decades is a bit strange.

Next up.... Australia.

It's been fun folks. Signing off, and I will see you all next time.

 

[Horacito]

I had very sweet memories from the 07 WC and in some aspects this edition didn't live up to the hype:

anthems
general atmosphere
draw in pools

everything else was perfect. Best rugby games in a long time in QF, tense semifinals (except ours) dramatic final between the best two teams in the history of rugby hands down (they've won 80 percent of WC on their own pretty much).
I feel the new rules and criteria for head injuries and so was honestly quite new and they need some work to unify criteria, but it's for the best in terms of the players' health, so whatever they do I agree on that front
What I think is more positive is: CHILE and URUGUAY in the WC together with ARG, that's a huge boost for me personally, I loved it
also, the "second tier" is closing in and I hope it will be closer the next WC

I did miss AUSTRALIA in the QF and SF, something was off without them matildas and that awful thing they call beer (only beer I know worst than Quilmes)
other than that, I loved it and now I'll starve for 5 months until six nations comes back

 

[Herman the German]

Not sure what games you went to....I went to 6 and the organization was one of the worst I have ever seen (I have been to 4 rugby World Cup, 5 football World Cup and 2 olympics).
The staff didn't know jackshit, queuing everywhere for 1 hour to get a bottle of water, some stadia access are incredibly dangerous, no atmosphere whatsoever in any city, fan zone were ridiculous at best.

Not sure how you can say it was well organized.

Just to give you an example, I got about six beers (some by way of refilling) in Stade der France without actually lining up, beforehand as well as in the stadium. Way to the stadium was organised well. Parking (in my case in Lille) either. Just my two cents.

 

[dirty harry]

So, I have to disagree with organisation.

Nice, and Lyon were laughably bad, fans couldnt get to the stadium decently, got in late, couldnt get a beer and they even ran out of water by half time.

Taxi drivers seem to take advantage, as did restaurants and bars, attempting to double their prices. We were quoted 15e for a taxi to the stadium, only for the driver to say it was 60e. Every fan we met complained about it.

Then Paris a few weeks later was crime ridden, thefts, fights, not to mention the horrific incident of the Australian guy being stabbed and Irish girl assault.

Even from a German POV, my partner is German, she loves rugby but meeting her family in Marseille they didnt enjoy the weekend, and they couldnt understand the rules of the game. As non fans they were asking why the ref was penalizing one side but not the other for the same thing.

Someone mentioned above, half way through the quarters I was fatigued, and didnt want to watch any more of the sport I once lived. The laws have butchered a once great sport, and World rugby closely followed by the WRU seem to be trying their hardest to kill the game.


I watched the final, without enthusiasm, had to force myself too. All I wanted for the good of rugby was 2 things:

1. An entertaining game to spotlight what the sport can be to a big audience.

2. No refereeing decision to hamper either team.

I got neither of those. I honestly think in 30 years people will look back and say that 2023 is when rugby started to die.

 

[Horacito]

Then Paris a few weeks later was crime ridden, thefts, fights, not to mention the horrific incident of the Australian guy being stabbed and Irish girl assault.

Paris being Paris, I'm surprised any european would be surprised by that
Their traditions, we have no reason to question them lol

 

[dirty harry]

Paris being Paris, I'm surprised any european would be surprised by that
Their traditions, we have no reason to question them lol

Whose traditions are crime in Paris?

 

[Horacito]

Whose traditions are crime in Paris?

People from Paris

 

[Half Pint]

1)
So we need to be careful about wishing for two diametrically opposite things :
a) The best teams making it through to the later stages
b) Some unpredictability in the results
If you want to see some shock results (and it wouldn't be sport without it - you could play the whole tournament in a simulation on paper in ten minutes), then you have to accept that you'll get some surprise teams in the later rounds, and thus mis-matches in the knockout games
Personally I can forgive an awful lot as we received that *epic* QF weekend from the Rugby Gods - four of the best world cup games happening back to back, and every one going to the wire.

2)
I disagree with Dirty Harry, I though that the refereeing of the final was pretty much spot-on. Red card probably spoiled the game, but that's not the ref's fault.
Unfortunate that the ref was the story in too many other places, but real consistency is very hard to achieve, and d*ckheads on twitter hurling death threats are going to mean anyone sensible won't want to be a referee, so it just makes it harder to find good quality candidates.
World Rugby need to sort out what's a Red, what's a Yellow, what's a penalty and what's a No Offence. Maybe sift through some footage and find ten examples of each, and publish them to referees, coaches and the wider public.

3)
Midweek games is pretty much a non-starter with the recovery required. I would suggest hold a women's world cup at the same time, and play those games on Tue/Wed/Thu and the mens' on Fri/Sat/Sun.
Odd number of teams in the pools, and a 'fallow week' was a nonsense. But pools of 4 would work.

4)
Can't speak for where you live, but UK ITV coverage was pretty awful, I was shouting at the telly when they had expert pundits telling me that the team that scored the most points would win etc. Yes, it's difficult to explain to the casual fan without condescending the expert, but they managed to just be rubbish for everyone.
Between weekends I think ITV forgot that they had the broadcast rights to the RWC. They did nothing at all to promote it to people who weren't already writing fixture lists into their calendar.
But at least it was free to air. Sky do this much better, but only have 10% of the audience. The ECB (England cricket authorities) killed their entire sport by selling their soul to Sky.

5)
Twitter should be illegal.

 

[Horacito]

You are the first one to point out (1), which is a crucial point in any world cup, especially the model that WR copies, FIFA. Many times over the last decades minor teams defeat the big dogs and the pool stages become a mess (I don't like football but I remember Germany last WC), and then the SF or QF are not as good

I think this point simply proves that fans are against surprising results when it's a bad surprise for them