RWC: Argentina - England (10-09-2011, 20:30)

[Teh Mite]

Back on topic:
If he gets a ban for what was nothing more then a rugby incident, I'm done with watching test rugby forever. Especially when you consider Quade Cooper is still playing.

I wonder if this would be an issue if Lawes weren't English... I doubt it.

 

[Daylightfire]

Is it because he is black... Couldn't resist that.

 

[ZeFrenchy]

 

[captainpotwash]

If you even suggest that Banahan should be involved.....:mellow:

Haha no we all know Bananaman is not an international wing yet . . . but in all seriousness would have much preferred to see Monye or as much as it pains me even Varndell on the plane, we really need some serious pace in the back three!!!

 

[gingergenius]

Hmm... I think Lawes will get off, or maybe get a 1/ 2 game ban, nothing more.

Put simply, it looks like he's dived in knee first on Ledesma, which I reckon is probably 75% likely what happened - an act of malice/ stupidity/ whatever.

However, what he'll say is that he was trying to ensure Ledesma was in touch. How many players do we see slide in knee/ legs first to try to stop the ball being grounded for a try, or to ensure someone is most definitely in touch? It happens a lot. So what Lawes will say is that is what he was doing, he just misjudged it because he was in full flight and blah blah blah. I'd say there's about a 25% chance that was what happened.

Add to that 25% the fact that Lawes' disciplinary record is good, and that Cooper got off too, and I don't see this being a serious issue at all with the iRB.

that's my take.

What we must all agree on is that the evidence, in a legal sense, is not conclusive either way, and without conclusive evidence you cannot dish out large punishments. Frankly, the only people who will really care about Lawes missing the Georgia and Romania games will be Courtney Lawes and Martin Johnson.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

let us pray Fourie gets better and a call up!

Just heard a rumour that England have been in contact with the Sale physios to monitor his progress as Moody might be on his way home soon

 

[captainpotwash]

Just heard a rumour that England have been in contact with the Sale physios to monitor his progress as Moody might be on his way home soon

The 20 minutes he played against Ireland were outstanding I hope he gets the all clear. It would be a shame to see Moody go but I cant see him contributing too much anymore anyway

 

[Teh Mite]

Hardly as though he's contributed much positive in the past 6 years anyway.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

When I first saw it I thought it was malicious ... but then when I see it again I'm not quite sure. What the IRB have to determine if Lawes did it intentionally or not. As for the Tiesi tackle it was unfortunate and sadly Argentina lost a good player in the process.

 

[Peat]

To weigh in late...

Lawes on Ledesma looks late and clumsy to me, not malicious, but I'd expected that to be a small ban.

Easter and Thompson both disappointed my trust in them.

Louis "Hide and Seek" Deacon fulfilled my lack of trust in him.

Haskell's beginning to be quite a good ground hog. Increasingly looks the cog the English back-row should be built around going forwards.

I want Ben Youngs man-babies.

Oh, and Moody has contributed to England when fully fit. Fully fit, I'd play him. He's rarely been fully fit recently mind, and won't be this tournament...

 

[McTallshort]

Well its only a 2 game ban which I think is fair. Means he will be ready for the Scotland game

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Chances are he would have sat out one of them and been benched for the other anyhow

 

[Izzoard]

Can they call a non-squad player resulted from a citing/game ban or do they have to chose from the squad?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Have to choose from the squad

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Don't want to see Shaw and Cueto on an international rugby field again - name one good thing either has done for England in the past 3 years. Back row needs to show some initiative and aggression at the breakdown - let us pray Fourie gets better and a call up!

Bearing in mind Lawes is out now, as was always likely, if you don't want Shaw it means Deacon instead. Which is dangerous talk which could get you thrown in jail. I would take Shaw over Deacon in an instant.

As for Cueto, well i'd be delighted if sharples was here to have a game on the wing but he's not. Cueto is a very good player his only drawback is slightly less pace ehich ofen prevents him scoring tries which others would. We missed him against Argentina, as Armitage was very poor. Over-ran his lines, got his positioning wrong, and looked flat-flooted and lethargic, often receiving tthe ball standing still. His inexperience on the wing showed I think. I don't think Cueto is the second best winger in England, but in this current squad he definitely is.

 

[gingergenius]

Bearing in mind Lawes is out now, as was always likely, if you don't want Shaw it means Deacon instead. Which is dangerous talk which could get you thrown in jail. I would take Shaw over Deacon in an instant.

As for Cueto, well i'd be delighted if sharples was here to have a game on the wing but he's not. Cueto is a very good player his only drawback is slightly less pace ehich ofen prevents him scoring tries which others would. We missed him against Argentina, as Armitage was very poor. Over-ran his lines, got his positioning wrong, and looked flat-flooted and lethargic, often receiving tthe ball standing still. His inexperience on the wing showed I think. I don't think Cueto is the second best winger in England, but in this current squad he definitely is.

Think you're being very harsh on Armitage. His service from those inside was crap, but he kept looking for work and was far more visible than Ashton, who managed a few missed tackles and conceding a penalty. And the Foden break, Delon should have come a wee bit inside, but Foden's pass was crap anyway.

If Cueto's fit then pick him, if not giving Armitage more gametime on the wing does no harm.

 

[Logorrhea]

Im not hiding behind anything and im not calling anyone a racist.

No you are

That's because he's racist

Bigot

I wonder if this would be an issue if Lawes weren't English... I doubt it.

Ahhh come on. Knee to head. Bold boy. Two match penalty is fair enough.

 

[captainpotwash]

Bearing in mind Lawes is out now, as was always likely, if you don't want Shaw it means Deacon instead. Which is dangerous talk which could get you thrown in jail. I would take Shaw over Deacon in an instant.

I thought the decision on Lawes was harsh. Fair enough about Deacon maybe Shaw is a better pick in that case. As for Cueto I haven't seen him do ANYTHING useful for club or country recently, unless he pulls his act together soon he has wasted a space on the team that Monye, Varndell, Sharples etc. could have filled. Armitage impressed on Saturday was one of the very few players who actually showed some willingness to go forward and take the game to the opposition, with a bit of time and coaching he could make a very good wing.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

As for Cueto I haven't seen him do ANYTHING useful for club or country recently

You obviously haven't watched Sale then


As for for England, watch him play - He may not get the tries, which is a shame, and as a winger isn't ideal, but watch how many meters he gains wriggling through tackles and driving players back - he's incredibly hard to put down for some reason, and always takes England forwards. His defence (both positioning and tackling) has gotten England out of more than a few sticky situations, and his clearance kicking is good to

The fact that you'd rather Varndell was there says a lot about what you want in a winger though, I suppose. Speed over skill

 

[captainpotwash]

I wouldn't say varndell is skilless - he just needs to be more hungry for the ball, maybe start coming in field more and looking for the inside ball - like Ashton. It's all very well wriggling through tackles but unless the finish is there, which for cueto it isn't then essentialy that is a useless wing.