RWC Home nations chat

[Groundhog]

From an outsider's perspective, I think Ireland, Wales and England have painted a big target on their backs. England more so than anyone else. Now this isn't just because of the overall hatred teams tend to have for England, but also the whole Owen Farrell high tackles which seems to go unpunished. I wouldn't be surprised at all if teams go out of their way to hurt the English team. You have a coach who isn't well-liked, you have a cocky captain in Farrell and there seems to be this aura around the team where they think they are better than what they actually are...

Ireland and Wales have targets on their backs purely because they have been winning a lot more against SH teams than in the past, and the frequency of their victories are a sign of their improvements in key areas in the game. For Ireland, should they get a QF with SA, there will be issue of poaching of players rearing it's ugly head, with their most recent squad member in Jean Kleyn being the latest victim.

Again, I'm speaking from an outsider's perspective, but I think the NH teams will need to be ready for an onslaught.

Doubt Jean Kleyn would describe himself as a poached victim. Better paid is probably the term he would use.
I worry for South Africa's chances if they have to use a pretty uninspiring squad player for inspiration in the knockout stages of a World Cup.
@TRF_Olyy everyone does hate England though. Dirty sods.

 

[Scotty]

From an outsider's perspective, I think Ireland, Wales and England have painted a big target on their backs. England more so than anyone else. Now this isn't just because of the overall hatred teams tend to have for England, but also the whole Owen Farrell high tackles which seems to go unpunished. I wouldn't be surprised at all if teams go out of their way to hurt the English team. You have a coach who isn't well-liked, you have a cocky captain in Farrell and there seems to be this aura around the team where they think they are better than what they actually are...

Ireland and Wales have targets on their backs purely because they have been winning a lot more against SH teams than in the past, and the frequency of their victories are a sign of their improvements in key areas in the game. For Ireland, should they get a QF with SA, there will be issue of poaching of players rearing it's ugly head, with their most recent squad member in Jean Kleyn being the latest victim.

Again, I'm speaking from an outsider's perspective, but I think the NH teams will need to be ready for an onslaught.

NZ for the first time in a long time must be looking north with a bit of concern, Ireland beat them twice and England came close. And the fact England's attack seems to be on form then that target is heading to NZ. They have had couple of draws to SA and a bad loss to Aus, they came back strong but they must worry that they have shown the world they can be beaten.

Atm id say SA are going in as joint favourites eith NZ but knowing that the NH has improved and could challenge.

NZ have a target because they have been shown to be vunerable and SA as they are holding that favourites tag.

I think those things matter more than some stupid moan about players playing for the wrong country or Farrells physical tackling(that he does need to be careful with) but how does that paint a target.

Still clearly 5 teams realisticly in the running and 3 of them are home nations .

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Still clearly 5 teams realisticly in the running and 3 of them are home nations .

2...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

2...

Ireland have a reasonable shout, don't put yourself down

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Ireland have a reasonable shout, don't put yourself down

This is why everyone HATES you!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

This is why everyone HATES you!

I'd clap back but you'd only poach more of our players

 

[TRF_heineken]

I'd clap back but you'd only poach more of our players

Not just yours...

 

[RedruthRFC]

From an outsider's perspective, I think Ireland, Wales and England have painted a big target on their backs.

What does this mean? 20 odd years into professional rugby it seems incredible that teams will prepare any differently or try any harder just because some low quality media outlets have realised that fanning the flames of hatred creates easily produced and monitised content.

<snowflake>Could we please use a term other than poaching for players moving country? I'm amazed that a term that implies people are the property of a country / organisation sits well with anyone.</snowflake>

 

[Every Time Ref]

Wasn't there supposed to be a separate thread for this "poaching" chat?

It's seriously just ******* boring, there is NOTHING NEW TO BE SAID

 

[TRF_heineken]

What does this mean? 20 odd years into professional rugby it seems incredible that teams will prepare any differently or try any harder just because some low quality media outlets have realised that fanning the flames of hatred creates easily produced and monitised content.

<snowflake>Could we please use a term other than poaching for players moving country? I'm amazed that a term that implies people are the property of a country / organisation sits well with anyone.</snowflake>

I guess because you're that side of the pond, you won't get how we see you guys. When we play the pommies, we like to remind the players about the Anglo Boer war, and how the women and children suffered in the concentration camps. It's a good motivator as both white and black suffered during the war.

That is usually enough to amp up the players. But there are matches we use as an example, to make us a bit angry at you. The Jannes Labuschagne red card match, and most recently the Owen Farrel high hit. It just seems like Whenever we play you guys, something happens to make us hate you more. (Now I know it's not necessarily your fault, and mostly the rules or the referee), but it's how the reaction after the incident ticks us off. Owen Farrell is probably the most disliked player in SA, especially now that Luke Watson is no longer playing. Should we play against you in the RWC, I can guarantee you it will be a brutal affair.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

There's a certain irony about South Africa, of any nation in the rugby world, having such a stiffy over some questionable tackles.


I'm sure 21yr old Tom Curry feels a lot of guilt over his personal involvement in the Boer War as well.
I know whenever we play Italy we like to bring up the death of Boudica, really stick it to those Romans.

 

[TRF_heineken]

There's a certain irony about South Africa, of any nation in the rugby world, having such a stiffy over some questionable tackles.


I'm sure 21yr old Tom Curry feels a lot of guilt over his personal involvement in the Boer War as well.
I know whenever we play Italy we like to bring up the death of Boudica, really stick it to those Romans.

Ha! I'm just telling as it is. You mind find it laughable or silly. But the fact remains that the past remains a great motivator. I think in South Africa we dwell on the past way too much though, and more often than not, it does more harm than good.

We know we're not perfect, and we know there's a lot of indifference between our own country men. But when we play a team like England, we find a common enemy.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

When we play the pommies, we like to remind the players about the Anglo Boer war, and how the women and children suffered in the concentration camps. It's a good motivator as both white and black suffered during the war.

Seriously?

 

[TRF_heineken]

Seriously?

Seriaaaas!

 

[Which Tyler]

I guess because you're that side of the pond, you won't get how we see you guys. When we play the pommies, we like to remind the players about the Anglo Boer war, and how the women and children suffered in the concentration camps. It's a good motivator as both white and black suffered during the war.

That is usually enough to amp up the players. But there are matches we use as an example, to make us a bit angry at you. The Jannes Labuschagne red card match, and most recently the Owen Farrel high hit. It just seems like Whenever we play you guys, something happens to make us hate you more. (Now I know it's not necessarily your fault, and mostly the rules or the referee), but it's how the reaction after the incident ticks us off. Owen Farrell is probably the most disliked player in SA, especially now that Luke Watson is no longer playing. Should we play against you in the RWC, I can guarantee you it will be a brutal affair.

For the crowd, yes.
I don't believe the history makes any bloody difference to the players.

History with certain other players, teams, results, missed offences - yes, that'll make a difference on the pitch (and right back at ya - thuggiest team in the world ), but not a war that no-one's grandparents were alive for and precceds a few wars we were on the same side for.

 

[TRF_heineken]

For the crowd, yes.
I don't believe the history makes any bloody difference to the players.

History with certain other players, teams, results, missed offences - yes, that'll make a difference on the pitch (and right back at ya - thuggiest team in the world ), but not a war that no-one's grandparents were alive for and precceds a few wars we were on the same side for.

On the contrary, it has the same effect on the players. But more so, as they want to do good by the fans, so they embrace the fans reaction surrounding this issue. We haven't been thuggy in a very long while, since Schalk Burger and Bakkies Botha have retired, there has been very little thuggy incidents. Can't say the same about England (Hartley, Farrell).

Speaking of Bakkies Botha, he's been a guest speaker at a lot of events here in the bushveld since his retirement. And he has told us at a recent farmers expo here in town about how certain historic events have been used in the locker room as motivation.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

It's getting fairly detailed and it appears to have stopped working in 2019 but it's tradition to hold a lecture on the famine before we play England...

Edit: Big up the Poles, sound bunch.

 

[MarkyH]

From an outsider's perspective, I think Ireland, Wales and England have painted a big target on their backs. England more so than anyone else. Now this isn't just because of the overall hatred teams tend to have for England, but also the whole Owen Farrell high tackles which seems to go unpunished. I wouldn't be surprised at all if teams go out of their way to hurt the English team. You have a coach who isn't well-liked, you have a cocky captain in Farrell and there seems to be this aura around the team where they think they are better than what they actually are...

Ireland and Wales have targets on their backs purely because they have been winning a lot more against SH teams than in the past, and the frequency of their victories are a sign of their improvements in key areas in the game. For Ireland, should they get a QF with SA, there will be issue of poaching of players rearing it's ugly head, with their most recent squad member in Jean Kleyn being the latest victim.

Again, I'm speaking from an outsider's perspective, but I think the NH teams will need to be ready for an onslaught.

Good. Lanacaster tried to make everyone like us but they just laughed at us instead.

 

[Groundhog]

South Africa going down the route of disliking other countries because of their history is a slippy slope, my days. I'll give credit to the English for doing well despite every team on Earth using their Super Smash Bros Ultimate Finishing Move on them, as pretty much every major rugby nation has historical beef with them.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

You have a coach who isn't well-liked

The love's not universal in England either......

you have a cocky captain in Farrell

Massively competitive and hugely self confident as his track record gives him every right to be. If that's your definition of cocky then fine, but most other teams would take him in a heartbeat and like any other key players he'll be targeted. Maybe a pantomime villain, but I suspect he has a huge amount of respect from those that really matter, teammates and opponents alike.

seems to be this aura around the team where they think they are better than what they actually are

Explain this? Every team's going to go into the RWC making positive PR noises about being in a good place, but beyond that? Just natural English arrogance?