RWC Semi Final: France - Wales (15-08-2011, 21:00)

[merlinux]

I guess you never watched the NRL Grand Final then. The referee's combined with the TMO is foolproof and it works like a charm and definitely shows up Union.

how dare you say i have never watch the grand final (go the mighty rabbithos) just kidding. I get your point however I think the answer is a tough selection/competition and then review of refs.... And I think this was the best world cup in term of refereeing.... Laws of union are a very difficult thing to interpret (no it isnt league, there is scrum rucks and mauls). Imagine if you were a software programmer programming the perfet referree. I dont think it will change anything in some blaming the ref/system.... it is a game with tough calls(some rucks you only have to guess whats hapening inside). Anyway hope the warriors make it next time, they were awesome this year and i hate manly

 

[donmcdazzle]

Seriously, do you really require someone to answer that question??.. Come on dude it's not hard to determine malice. All you need is your bloody eyes. He never tipped him upside down, momentum forced him that way, stop trying to make it sound worse than it really was.

But what is the intent? Intent to injure or intent to spear? Cause everyone will always say they didn't mean to spear a guy, and if you think Warburton didn't intentionally tip Clerc upside down, and I think he clearly did, you can see how some inconsistent calls might be made?

 

[mustardcharlie]

Let the boring technology where it's lay; let stay what Rugby are: a sport of human being with human being values ; with it's weakness; defeat and strongness;angryness;respect; generosity; solidarity; disapointment and tears and sometime beauty and joy when his favourite team win ( for me France) The young welsh team has the future ahead.

Thank you sir. As neutrals, we do not begrudge you your win. Wales played the best rugby in the tournament. France have discovered the art of how to play badly and still win.

 

[kbourke88]

Seriously, do you really require someone to answer that question??.. Come on dude it's not hard to determine malice. All you need is your bloody eyes. He never tipped him upside down, momentum forced him that way, stop trying to make it sound worse than it really was.

Its been said before, but intent aint part of the card equation.
Whether he meant it to be or not it was a dangerous tackle.
As far as dangerous tackles go, I dont think it was in the red card category, and if it is well i only expect more games to be heavily influenced by refs rather than by players. Its a tough thing to strike a balance between disincentivising dangerous play, but incentivising aggressive styles and genuine big hits.

and more to that point, was Tana sent off for the tackle in your sig? He would have been today.

 

[Saintjay]

For a Lincoln Uni man, you might want to learn the difference between a loose head prop and a losing (head) prop. As an ex-English teacher, WASP and England supporter through and through (at all sport), I have no brief for either France or Wales.

The discussion I/some of us want to consider is how the referees and officials stick to the rules and are consistent. There have been 4 joke decisions in this WC, as far as I am concerned.

The penalty given against Argentina for the tackle on Ashton, ultimately leading to England's try. Lawes, scrambling in defence, catches a player with his knee and is given a 2 match ban. Armitage deliberately shoulder charges a player to the head? Try it some time. I'll do it at 60 and if you hit my head with your shoulder, I'll pay the hospital bill.

Said my piece wrt to Warburton but as Dizzy and many NZ/Oz/SA fans have commented i.e. neither Frogs nor Taffs, if you're going to give a straight red for that, you may as well go to the synchronised swimming board.

Mate your missing the point of the law, it is to stop people getting hurt. Not going out and killing each other, it is for the same reason the scrum laws were cracked down on. Before the dangerous tackle law was brough in people were getting badly hurt. It was the right decision, not a joke one. If Warbuton had got away with it the tackle would have made the highlight wheel and every youth player in Wales will be doing it come kick off time at 1030am tomo. You can't let everyone hit people like that and then one day a players bust his neck and it is not worth it if it just keepst one person safe.

It is for the same reasons they have all the safety aids and drivers aids in F1 it is to stop serious injury or death.

 

[Dizzy]

But what is the intent? Intent to injure or intent to spear? Cause everyone will always say they didn't mean to spear a guy, and if you think Warburton didn't intentionally tip Clerc upside down, and I think he clearly did, you can see how some inconsistent calls might be made?

He didn't intend to do it, otherwise he wouldn't had let Clerc go. He would've made sure he tipped him upside down, and considering Clerc landed on his back, that's hardly upside down. What I'm saying is, it didn't warrant a red card.

Its been said before, but intent aint part of the card equation.
Whether he meant it to be or not it was a dangerous tackle.
As far as dangerous tackles go, I dont think it was in the red card category, and if it is well i only expect more games to be heavily influenced by refs rather than by players. Its a tough thing to strike a balance between disincentivising dangerous play, but incentivising aggressive styles and genuine big hits.

and more to that point, was Tana sent off for the tackle in your sig? He would have been today.

No he wasn't because in that day and age, we didn't have actors like the ones we have today. Those guys got straight back up. Did Buck Shelford get carded for knocking out Hugh Richards? no he didn't, did Hugh Richards complain no he didn't because in that day and age we didn't have pussies like we do today.

Mate your missing the point of the law, it is to stop people getting hurt. Not going out and killing each other, it is for the same reason the scrum laws were cracked down on. Before the dangerous tackle law was brough in people were getting badly hurt. It was the right decision, not a joke one. If Warbuton had got away with it the tackle would have made the highlight wheel and every youth player in Wales will be doing it come kick off time at 1030am tomo. You can't let everyone hit people like that and then one day a players bust his neck and it is not worth it if it just keepst one person safe.

It is for the same reasons they have all the safety aids and drivers aids in F1 it is to stop serious injury or death.

You sound very educated in all this so please answer me this. When players are cleaning out at the ruck, why are they allowed to grab players around the neck and twist them over?. Dangerous is it not?.. We can't do shoulder charges in Rugby because it's dangerous right? So why are the tight five allowed to fly into rucks with their shoulders? Especially when there are players bridging and players drive straight into their backs. Dangerous is it not? If they are going to try and stop all the bad things from happening, then in the future will we see a law where players aren't allowed to run hard anymore because defenders are getting bunted off and hurt? [See Jamie Roberts vs Samoa] Come on, in the famous words of a great man

THIS AINT TIDDLYWINKS!

 

[VersaceIRL]

unlucky wales just take the loss on the chin like ireland did and on to the next (six nations) p.s really wanted you to win world cup after you beat us.

 

[LeztheTed]

Why was a northern hemisphere Referee in charge of a game with two northern hemisphere teams ??
Why an instant RED card with no consultation with Touch Judges or Video Referee ??
conclusion albeit cynical !! a guarantee of a southern hemisphere team lifting the Trophy AGAIN !!!!

An Irish Referee with a French name, No bias there then !!!!

Warren Gatland is to much of a gentleman to call for the ref to be investigated and replay under a different Official !! Though probably he should do !!!?

 

[Dizzy]

What the hell?!?

 

[SelimNiai]

No, nein, non, whatever the Spanish and Italian are for no.

Shut up.

 

[greyMan]

with no consultation with Touch Judges or Video Referee ??

I believe the TMO can only be used for things involving the goal area and kicks at goal and not for open field play?

Edit: and as for the touch judge, seems the ref was actually in a better position (on the replay he's literally next to it and looking directly at them as the tackle happens).

 

[mustardcharlie]

I'm pretty sickened by the abuse Rolland is being given both online and from pundits/commentators. It wasn't Rolland who spear tackled Parra. Warburton has only himself to blame for this. It's obvious that refs have been told to crack down on those sort of tackles and that's what Rolland did.

It wasn't a "spear tackle". Get it right. You see that sort of thing if you watch joke wrestling. He gets his arms round his arse or just below and hits him in the ribcage. The fact that the Frog can't take a hit and waggles his feet in the air doing the "dead ant" is beyond the pale. It is not Rolland's fault, I agree. Not as though I'm challenging him to pistols at dawn. Think he's a decent referee. Crap decision though. Said it in most sports. When a player makes a bad decision, he often pilloried. RU, like kickball, must move into the 20th century. Cricket is making the effort. Rugby and kickball are not.

 

[Saintjay]

You sound very educated in all this so please answer me this. When players are cleaning out at the ruck, why are they allowed to grab players around the neck and twist them over?. Dangerous is it not?.. We can't do shoulder charges in Rugby because it's dangerous right? So why are the tight five allowed to fly into rucks with their shoulders? Especially when there are players bridging and players drive straight into their backs. Dangerous is it not? If they are going to try and stop all the bad things from happening, then in the future will we see a law where players aren't allowed to run hard anymore because defenders are getting bunted off and hurt? [See Jamie Roberts vs Samoa] Come on, in the famous words of a great man

THIS AINT TIDDLYWINKS!

On a serious note, I do agree about the dangerous tackle needing some ruling against it. Your words why do you think they should have this ruling.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...arburtons-tip-tackle-in-pictures.html?image=8

Looking at this picture it looks like he lifted him and has him around the legs. Not much room for doing a dead ant.

 

[Antoine]

I wish Alain Rolland did not missed his conversion kick nor his penalty kicks...

 

[mustardcharlie]

Mate your missing the point of the law, it is to stop people getting hurt. Not going out and killing each other, it is for the same reason the scrum laws were cracked down on. Before the dangerous tackle law was brough in people were getting badly hurt. It was the right decision, not a joke one. If Warbuton had got away with it the tackle would have made the highlight wheel and every youth player in Wales will be doing it come kick off time at 1030am tomo. You can't let everyone hit people like that and then one day a players bust his neck and it is not worth it if it just keepst one person safe.

No mate, you're missing my point. I make the same point as I do with soldiers. There is no conscription in the UK or France, so if you don't want to get shot at, you don't join.

It is for the same reasons they have all the safety aids and drivers aids in F1 it is to stop serious injury or death.

So why are we not sending people out there in the Kevlar vests, neck braces, shoulder pads, helmets, etc, etc.

 

[Aout]

Why was a northern hemisphere Referee in charge of a game with two northern hemisphere teams ??
Why an instant RED card with no consultation with Touch Judges or Video Referee ??
conclusion albeit cynical !! a guarantee of a southern hemisphere team lifting the Trophy AGAIN !!!!

An Irish Referee with a French name, No bias there then !!!!

Warren Gatland is to much of a gentleman to call for the ref to be investigated and replay under a different Official !! Though probably he should do !!!?

Are we crying when we are refereed by a referee whose name sounds ENGLISH when we're playing England ?

Waren Gatland is a sore loser, he'd better read the rule book : http://www.deepsouthrugbyunion.com/images/IRB_Memorandum_re_Dangerous_Tackles.pdf

"There's no bitterness, the side who played the best today won. We knew the France team turning up today would be a good France team - Parra at 10 had a great game, he bossed things. We wish them all the best in the final."

Shane Williams is a Gentleman.

 

[alexman]

Alain Rolland killed this game, ****ing irish ref... As a frenchman i guess that the Welsh Team diserved to win but we are actually in final !
In Lièvremont we trust

 

[Saintjay]

Because it is about reducing risk of harm and injury, when there is no need for it within the rules of the game. One of the reasons they let players start wearing padding, to stop people breaking there collar bones.

As another poster said. Warburton could have made that tackle like the other 140 safe legal tackles during the game. The reason people don't hit like that and it against the rules is simply because it is dangerous and can cause serious injury when there is no need for it. Hence why they looked at the scrum laws etc.

Think of it like this, why are you not allowed to high tackle people around the neck. It is dangerous and there is no need for it within the laws of the game.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

I see more stars in this thread than in The French team but that's probably the censoring

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[Aout]

I see more stars in this thread than in The French team but that's probably the censoring

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk

Or bitterness.