[RWC19 Warm-Up] - England vs Ireland

[Ragey Erasmus]

I'd just like to point out the sheer folly of England going for a pair of flankers who were not natural lineout jumpers. Clearly our ability to win the lineout was severely hampered by this ridiculous oversight and what we gained at the breakdown didn't even come close to compensating for that.

 

[General Melchett]

His hit on Larmour, plenty of wrist wringing and saying it's a red card
Have a scroll down this thread:
https://twitter.com/andymcgeady/status/1165285857261236229

Plenty of people chirping at BOD, as well, cause he said it was fine.

Who is Andy McGeady? He has way more followers than he should have

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Irish rugby twitter is pretty bad.

Fortunately most Irish rugby fans are great.
Just the ones on twitter love to be sanctimonious

 

[bushytop]

Fortunately most Irish rugby fans are great.

The Bro'ship is preserved... phew!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

https://twitter.com/GTancred/status/1165295995774754816?s=20

 

[Hanley!]

You're being a little unfair in my opinion. This coach's systems have seen Ireland win 3/6 Six Nations under his watch, a first ever win away against South Africa, a first test series win in any of the old Sanzar nations in 40 years and the first couple of wins ever against New Zealand. Ireland were one game away from taking over the #1 ranking in the world only 4 hours ago.

Some criticism is warranted though. The team play a very boring style of rugby even if it has been incredibly successful until a few months ago. My other main criticism would be that it appears harder to get out of the first choice team that it does to play your way into it.

I think it's fair to say that there is a coaching issue at the moment. If one player is playing badly, then it's a player issue. If five are playing badly it might still be a player issue. If twenty three players are playing badly, then there's a problem further up the chain of command. I'm not saying that Schmidt sucks, or that he needs to completely overhaul his game plan. That would be unfair. But something clearly needs to change.

It's funny; often when I have any mild criticism of Schmidt, I feel the need to preface it by saying he has been our best ever coach and has done great things for the team and rugby in the country. I say that because I believe it to be true, but also because if I don't say it people start jumping down my throat. I'm just a little tired of saying it every time. It's as if Irish fans are worried they'll appear ungrateful if they criticize the man at all. But he's human. He's capable of making mistakes, and he's certainly made a few this year. And when he focuses only on execution and player performance without being at all introspective about what he might need to change, that frustrates me.

 

[Jimbo]

I think it's fair to say that there is a coaching issue at the moment. If one player is playing badly, then it's a player issue. If five are playing badly it might still be a player issue. If twenty three players are playing badly, then there's a problem further up the chain of command. I'm not saying that Schmidt sucks, or that he needs to completely overhaul his game plan. That would be unfair. But something clearly needs to change.

It's funny; often when I have any mild criticism of Schmidt, I feel the need to preface it by saying he has been our best ever coach and has done great things for the team and rugby in the country. I say that because I believe it to be true, but also because if I don't say it people start jumping down my throat. I'm just a little tired of saying it every time. It's as if Irish fans are worried they'll appear ungrateful if they criticize the man at all. But he's human. He's capable of making mistakes, and he's certainly made a few this year. And when he focuses only on execution and player performance without being at all introspective about what he might need to change, that frustrates me.

I wouldn't be too worried if I was an Irish fan today sucked intensity was non existent a lot of errors but that team that won their GS last season and beat the ABs hasn't suddenly disappeared, I think they will be there or there about come WC.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Whilst I know these a warm up games, the whole "undercooked" thing doesn't really fly for me. This is now 3 games in 1 year where Ireland have been absolutely demolished (twice by England, once by Wales). I feel Ireland now are experiencing what England had in 2018, form suddenly dropping off a cliff.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Whilst I know these a warm up games, the whole "undercooked" thing doesn't really fly for me. This is now 3 games in 1 year where Ireland have been absolutely demolished (twice by England, once by Wales). I feel Ireland now are experiencing what England had in 2018, form suddenly dropping off a cliff.

It was also our third choice half back pairing, 2nd choice 12 and an experimental 2nd row. That's not the Ireland that'll play at the world cup. As well as 12 of those guys playing their first game in months, undercooked is far the more likely of the two based on today.

 

[Rich Taff]

I still have zero idea how Biggar gets picked ahead of those two....

If it's any help, then judging from your historical comments, it's probably due to you not being very bright when it comes to rugby.

You're welcome.

His hit on Larmour, plenty of wrist wringing and saying it's a red card
Have a scroll down this thread:
https://twitter.com/andymcgeady/status/1165285857261236229

Plenty of people chirping at BOD, as well, cause he said it was fine.

I thought it was close, but perfectly timed. Strange how they don't appear to have noticed the tackle on May before the Kruis try, that was a straight up shoulder charge (think it was Kearney).

 

[Dai Perk]

Seems like an obvious question, but, do any of you England fans feel significantly different about your RWC odds after this weekend? Was it just a, 'Hey, that was fun,' or is it a 'Holy crap we can rule the world' kinda feeling?

 

[donmcdazzle]

From a neutral person's view of it all (NZer here)... England have all the tools to win the World Cup I think. I have worried about them for a couple of years but they either never put it all together against us or have had key guys injured.

I think England has 4 genuine world class players, and if they can keep all 4 on the park then it is scary for the rest. Farrell, Itoje, Tuilagi and Vunipola. And there are a bunch of other guys who are very near that level too (Kruis, May, Underhill). Sinckler is a really good athlete for a big man. Ford is a handy player, and looks much better for having Farrell outside him. I like May as well, huge workrate and when is accurate he looks very good.

The scary thing about England for me is that they can score a ton of points and win in a shootout, but are also set up pretty well for an arm wrestle (a little bit like SA at the moment too). Farrell obviously makes the whole thing go, he is such a good player, would love to have him in the ABs. You English fans must be very happy with that performance!

Ireland, I mean they had no intensity at all, and their style seems to require every guy playing out of his skin with 100% accuracy / intensity (at least the games where they beat the ABs that seemed to be the recipe). Hard to read a lot into it when they hardly turned up but I wonder if they can put three super accurate / committed performances together in a row (quarter, semi, final). Maybe they can.

 

[ncurd]

If it's any help, then judging from your historical comments, it's probably due to you not being very bright when it comes to rugby.

You're welcome.

Man you've got a chip on your shoulder almost becoming VC level of disliking my posts . No need to get personal.

 

[Which Tyler]

Seems like an obvious question, but, do any of you England fans feel significantly different about your RWC odds after this weekend? Was it just a, 'Hey, that was fun,' or is it a 'Holy crap we can rule the world' kinda feeling?

That was fun.

We've always been capable of beating anyone on our day, the stars just rarely align that well. We've also been capable of struggling to get past Italy.
That performance does not make us invincible, especially as it's only 7 days after our most recent loss.

That selection was particularly well balanced, as we were all saying beforehand. If we can continue to play like that with some changes in personel, then I'll be delighted. String a few matches like that together against decent opposition, including some changes in selection and I'll start get cocky (especially if one of those changes is at 9, or Youngs has one of his one-in-ten days where he looks world class)

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Seems like an obvious question, but, do any of you England fans feel significantly different about your RWC odds after this weekend? Was it just a, 'Hey, that was fun,' or is it a 'Holy crap we can rule the world' kinda feeling?

It was a very good day at the office, but overall said much more about Ire than Eng.

So it's as you were. Still praying that some of our big guys don't get hurt and still wondering about Jones blind spot at 9. We have a chance though.

 

[ncurd]

That was fun.

We've always been capable of beating anyone on our day, the stars just rarely align that well. We've also been capable of struggling to get past Italy.
That performance does not make us invincible, especially as it's only 7 days after our most recent loss.

That selection was particularly well balanced, as we were all saying beforehand. If we can continue to play like that with some changes in personel, then I'll be delighted. String a few matches like that together against decent opposition, including some changes in selection and I'll start get cocky (especially if one of those changes is at 9, or Youngsnjas one of his one-in-ten days where he looks world class)

Pretty much this apart from when we went on the winning streak it's England have always have a **** poor performance in them (last week wasn't one of them the opposition strangled the life out the game). So any success always feels like another loss around the corner. It's easy to get cocky though because when your go to Dublin and beat Ireland in the opener of the six Nations you start to believe a corner has turned. Only for as Which Tyler said to struggle against Italy later in the comp.

It should also be noted towards the end of the streak it was starting to look like we lose a game sooner rather than later. At its height on the Australia tour thought absolutely we'd win everything.

Plus yesterday it was clear Ireland were rusty as hell and if the match had mattered I don't think they'd have let off as much in the second half.

I do think when England is playing their best we'll beat all who come. But I don't think we'll get three of those games In a row.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I'd just like to point out the sheer folly of England going for a pair of flankers who were not natural lineout jumpers. Clearly our ability to win the lineout was severely hampered by this ridiculous oversight and what we gained at the breakdown didn't even come close to compensating for that.

It may not have been exposed in yesterday's game, but as well as England played, was, let's face it, a training run, it could get exposed later. It's because it's basically a numbers game in the line out. If we only have two jumpers in the line out, then it gets predictable who we're going to hit to. But their breakdown work at securing their own ball and turnover ball was superb and enough to reach the final.

I keep going back to the Pooper as an example. Sure Curryhill are slightly taller than Hooper. I think Pocock is around the same height as Sam and probably their arms (Pococks' guns aren't probably bigger) but their arms are not exactly levers for the line out like a PSDT. But they destroyed the ABs to win the RC 4 years ago and went into destroy us in the pool game. They should have lost that QF v Scotland but for Scotland not securing their own line out and ultimately leading to that penalty decision, which Joubert will forever be remembered for.

But the Wallabies line out was exposed brutally twice first in the final Bledisloe and then in the rugby World Cup final. And that was with Fardy as viable third jumper in the line out. if we are to continue with Curryhill, then of the two Curry appears to be the more adept of yesterday's backrow to be a jumper (front of the lineout jumper). Keep going to Krutoje will become too predictable sooner or later.

 

[Not Eddie Jones]

Well just last week England didn't manage to score a try, could Cips have made a difference possibly we simply don't know, the smart money would be on Cips being the most likely to create a score against stubborn defences, purely from an attacking point of view he is superior to any other English option, superior to Ford in all areas bar Goal kicking.

That doesn't really make sense in the context of last week's game. Eddie was clear that last week's game was all about practising England's power game to see where we needed to improve with it, so Cips playing creatively wouldn't have come into it. We could also say we may have scored a try using the power game if Eddie had played his first XV with his best power runners, but it's all ifs, buts and maybes.

What I do know is that Cipriani has 16 England caps and he hasn't exactly set the international rugby world alight. I can think of him creating maybe a couple of tries for England, but not much else. He's been pretty quiet when he's had his chances. Ford, on the other hand, has created dozens and dozens of tries in his 57 caps, as has Farrell in his 71 caps. Those two have both shown they can do the job on the international stage, Cips simply hasn't.

I'm not saying Cips isn't a good player, of course he is, I just don't see any evidence that he's a cut above what we already have when it comes to playing internationals (as opposed to club rugby).

 

[Not Eddie Jones]

Pretty much this apart from when we went on the winning streak it's England have always have a **** poor performance in them (last week wasn't one of them the opposition strangled the life out the game). So any success always feels like another loss around the corner. It's easy to get cocky though because when your go to Dublin and beat Ireland in the opener of the six Nations you start to believe a corner has turned. Only for as Which Tyler said to struggle against Italy later in the comp.

It should also be noted towards the end of the streak it was starting to look like we lose a game sooner rather than later. At its height on the Australia tour thought absolutely we'd win everything.

Plus yesterday it was clear Ireland were rusty as hell and if the match had mattered I don't think they'd have let off as much in the second half.

I do think when England is playing their best we'll beat all who come. But I don't think we'll get three of those games In a row.

All of the above, plus I think taking the three warm-up games together, England look far better prepared going into this World Cup (barring catastrophe against Italy in a fortnight!) than they have in an age. We've played 3 games against the opponents' best available XVs (give-or-take), won two handsomely, narrowly lost one on an oddball try, tried out different ways of playing, different combos etc, given the 2nd-stringers plenty of action, kept the 1st-stringers fresh and healthy, have not had any major injuries, the players look fit and strong and fast and skillfil throughout the squad (except Youngs), we've given notice to the world that we can play like the best of them, and the squad is settled and relaxed and HAPPY. It's a long, long time since England have gone into a World Cup looking like this. It feels like we're gonna do really well. We might not, but I'm enjoying the feeling right now.

 

[higgik]

All of the above, plus I think taking the three warm-up games together, England look far better prepared going into this World Cup (barring catastrophe against Italy in a fortnight!) than they have in an age. We've played 3 games against the opponents' best available XVs (give-or-take), won two handsomely, narrowly lost one on an oddball try, tried out different ways of playing, different combos etc, given the 2nd-stringers plenty of action, kept the 1st-stringers fresh and healthy, have not had any major injuries, the players look fit and strong and fast and skillfil throughout the squad (except Youngs), we've given notice to the world that we can play like the best of them, and the squad is settled and relaxed and HAPPY. It's a long, long time since England have gone into a World Cup looking like this. It feels like we're gonna do really well. We might not, but I'm enjoying the feeling right now.

They do look in a good place mentally, which we all know at that level is 95% of the game plan.
Also agree with Youngs, he his out of his depth with this new faster team.