Not Eddie Jones
First XV
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2019
- Messages
- 1,128
- Country Flag
As I said, I think Cips is a good player, he's proved that at club level, but he hasn
As I said, I think he's a good player, no doubt. But how is the try he created against South Africa any different to Ford's chip to Nowell to seal the win against Australia in the first test in 2016, or Farrell's boot from the halfway line to May to score against Wales in the 6 nations in 2018? In all three cases, the flyhalf spotted the space behind the up-rushing defence and in an instant of quick-thinking, exploited it with a pinpoint kick. Which is really my point: Cips is a good player, but he doesn't do anything that Ford and Faz don't already do for England. He's never been electric in an England uniform, he's never looked like being another Beauden Barrett or Dan Carter. If he had looked like a diamond-in-the-rough when wearing white, sure, get him in there ahead of Ford-Faz and give him a run of games, but why swap him out for Ford or Faz if you're not going to gain something extra that's beyond the incumbents' abilities? Plus, Ford and Faz bring additional qualities that Cips doesn't: they're both captains, Ford can play scrumhalf (thanks higgik! ) and Faz can make legal shoulder charges to win games. Sure, if Cips had a run of games at 10 he might turn into that awesome World-XV type player that people seem to think he could become, but that goes back to what I said about ifs, buts and maybes. Purely on the evidence of what he's produced to date in an England uniform, he's not better than Ford nor Farrell and hasn't showed any sign that he threatens to be.
And as Tigs Man says, a club's form is about far more than one player. It's a team game, not to mention the importance of good coaches. Ackerman's been great for Gloucester, Murphy not so much for Leicester. Cips played for a year for the Rebels in Super Rugby and they were dreadful, but you can't lay all that failure solely at Cips' door, any more than you can lay all of Gloucester or Wasps' success solely at Cips' door either.
I'm not knocking Cips, he's proven he's a fine club player and I don't fail to see what he brings to the table for England, I just fail to see what extra he brings to the table for England.
Cips may not have made a difference last week but you asked when england struggled for tries and I gave you an example, one recent example of Cips try was that awesome kick against SA finished by May, when your not given a descent string of games I'd imagine it is pretty hard to grow into a team as a 10. Cips is not simply a good club player he is a class act, maybe he is too disruptive to the team maybe personality clashes with others who knows, he simply has more ability than Ford and Faz is a different kind of 10 so it's difficult to compare those two.
From a prem point of view Tigers have gone down hill since Ford joined, relegation battles etc compare that to Gloucester who couldn't make the top four cut, Cips moves makes it there and his previous team Wasps suddenly Fail to make the top four they had featured in regularly for the previous 3 or 4 seasons, not to mention he was awarded the player of the season.
I don't really see how you fail to see what he brings to the table when it is so obvious.
As I said, I think he's a good player, no doubt. But how is the try he created against South Africa any different to Ford's chip to Nowell to seal the win against Australia in the first test in 2016, or Farrell's boot from the halfway line to May to score against Wales in the 6 nations in 2018? In all three cases, the flyhalf spotted the space behind the up-rushing defence and in an instant of quick-thinking, exploited it with a pinpoint kick. Which is really my point: Cips is a good player, but he doesn't do anything that Ford and Faz don't already do for England. He's never been electric in an England uniform, he's never looked like being another Beauden Barrett or Dan Carter. If he had looked like a diamond-in-the-rough when wearing white, sure, get him in there ahead of Ford-Faz and give him a run of games, but why swap him out for Ford or Faz if you're not going to gain something extra that's beyond the incumbents' abilities? Plus, Ford and Faz bring additional qualities that Cips doesn't: they're both captains, Ford can play scrumhalf (thanks higgik! ) and Faz can make legal shoulder charges to win games. Sure, if Cips had a run of games at 10 he might turn into that awesome World-XV type player that people seem to think he could become, but that goes back to what I said about ifs, buts and maybes. Purely on the evidence of what he's produced to date in an England uniform, he's not better than Ford nor Farrell and hasn't showed any sign that he threatens to be.
And as Tigs Man says, a club's form is about far more than one player. It's a team game, not to mention the importance of good coaches. Ackerman's been great for Gloucester, Murphy not so much for Leicester. Cips played for a year for the Rebels in Super Rugby and they were dreadful, but you can't lay all that failure solely at Cips' door, any more than you can lay all of Gloucester or Wasps' success solely at Cips' door either.
I'm not knocking Cips, he's proven he's a fine club player and I don't fail to see what he brings to the table for England, I just fail to see what extra he brings to the table for England.