SA rugby in trouble

[JohnKA]

On news24 i saw that a goverment party is taking saru to court to take away the boks passports to not attend the world cup , is this even possible ? And what is going to happen with the rugby in SA what is the world cup without the boks in it ?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Does the party have any power?

It isn't the ruling government.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

@John van eeden,

Please next time provide a link to the article you are referring to.

Party takes Mbalula, Saru to court in bid to stop Springboks

Johannesburg - A little-known political party is dragging Sports Minister Fikile Mbalula and the SA Rugby Union (Saru) to court on Tuesday to try and stop the Springboks from competing in the rugby World Cup next month.

The Agency for New Agenda party, formerly known as South Africa First, and its president Edward Mahlomola Mokhoanatse, will be in the North Gauteng High Court seeking an urgent order to compel Saru and sports department officials to surrender their passports so they cannot travel.

He says although much has been done to transform the country, "some citizens resist such transformation and continue to practise activities, acts and conduct that are premised on unfair discrimination based on ... race".

He adds that the national rugby team's selection criteria are "racially exclusionary" and biased in favour of whites.

He adds that Mbalula has failed to transform rugby and any argument Saru presents to justify its failure to transform the sport should "be treated with disdain".

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/N...u-to-court-in-bid-to-stop-Springboks-20150830

 

[Bazinga]

Holy crap it's not about discriminating against african players, it's the fact that they just aren't as good at rugby as the people selected. If I sound racist then so be it.

 

[ratsapprentice]

How many current/recent white Boks' kids are going to end up representing other countries?

 

[smartcooky]

The same accusation could be levelled at South African Soccer... how many white boys play for Bafana Bafana? Do they have a race quota imposed upon them? If they did, then two out of 11 players should be non-black, and one of those should be white.

 

[Blackdevil]

@John van eeden,

Please next time provide a link to the article you are referring to.






http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/N...u-to-court-in-bid-to-stop-Springboks-20150830

Racist black guy, just imagine the same thing with the national basket ball team or in france with soccer?

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

The same accusation could be levelled at South African Soccer... how many white boys play for Bafana Bafana? Do they have a race quota imposed upon them? If they did, then two out of 11 players should be non-black, and one of those should be white.

This has been my response several times but South African black people will then defend their statement by saying white people don't need special preference since soccer is their sport.

It's just blatant racism.

 

[Bazinga]

This has been my response several times but South African black people will then defend their statement by saying white people don't need special preference since soccer is their sport.

It's just blatant racism.

It's not racism if the product of players that happen to be african are just not as good as the white players. What it comes down to is winning and all I care about is that the manager selects the best possible team for the job at hand.

 

[goodNumber10]

It's not racism if the product of players that happen to be african are just not as good as the white players. What it comes down to is winning and all I care about is that the manager selects the best possible team for the job at hand.

Surely the issue comes down to the opportunities afforded to the relevant people to get them in a position to compete with white rugby players consistently.

If poor.economically deprived black/Africans are not given the same chances to succeed, are not scouted, or are simply overlooked because of a poor transformation process then it is institutionalised racism (I'm not saying it is).

20years on and we're still having to discuss the issue of quotas. So Something is wrong for sure.

 

[goodNumber10]

This has been my response several times but South African black people will then defend their statement by saying white people don't need special preference since soccer is their sport.

It's just blatant racism.

It's not racist at all. The point is they are afforded a choice in sport most black SA are not, most white SA's are privileged enough to be able to pick their sport, and be in a position to excel at it.

I'm not saying I agree with quotas etc... But from looking in it does appear as if transformation of rugby has been badly handled.

 

[ratsapprentice]

As far as I can tell It's a very similar issue to ours re: participation amongst kids... state schools are dominated by football, whilst the private schools are dominated by rugby.
It takes a very long time, and a very well funded concerted effort to increase the number of state schools playing rugby in preference of (or even on an equal footing with) football.

 

[goodNumber10]

As far as I can tell It's a very similar issue to ours re: participation amongst kids... state schools are dominated by football, whilst the private schools are dominated by rugby.
It takes a very long time, and a very well funded concerted effort to increase the number of state schools playing rugby in preference of (or even on an equal footing with) football.

Exactly, except there is a race issue smack bang in the middle of all that, and I think that's ultimately the point, that it isn't a sport representative of the majority of the nation, it also carries a massive stigma from the pre-90's so it's a iconic issue as well... To tired to word this properly but I think you all get my drift.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Well the race issue (if there is one in the strict context of the Boks/elite rugby in SA) is that there aren't more black kids whose parents can afford to send them to private schools - hardly the fault of the Springboks.
The people who are in support of the quotas seem to be overwhelmingly aggressive towards white South Africans.

I don't think there is any non-xenophobic justification for the quotas.

 

[goodNumber10]

Well the race issue (if there is one in the strict context of the Boks/elite rugby in SA) is that there aren't more black kids whose parents can afford to send them to private schools - hardly the fault of the Springboks.
The people who are in support of the quotas seem to be overwhelmingly aggressive towards white South Africans.

I don't think there is any non-xenophobic justification for the quotas.

No, that's not the fault of the bokkes, but making rugby accessible to all must be one of their prime mandates.

Like I said I'm not saying I agree with quotas, but there is certainly an issue with getting rugby to the vast bulk of black South Africans, and in providing the same pathways as those more privileged.

You could swing it under socia-economics if not for the historical significance.

 

[ratsapprentice]

And you think SARU is going to be able to do anything other than metaphorically **** into the ocean by trying to make rugby more accessible to poor black kids?

The situation is almost exactly the same as in this country - the differences being that the poor kids in SA are a ****load more poor, and the British Government isn't imposing quotas on the number of English players who mustn't be privately educated.

The lack of black rugby players legitimately fit to play for the Boks certainly is a socio-economic issue.

 

[Catalan Bronco]

It's not racism if the product of players that happen to be african are just not as good as the white players. What it comes down to is winning and all I care about is that the manager selects the best possible team for the job at hand.

Exactly...it is the same situation in Australia with the disproportionate amount of Pacific Islanders on the Wallabies and in Hong Kong with their rugby sides being majority White.

 

[goodNumber10]

And you think SARU is going to be able to do anything other than metaphorically **** into the ocean by trying to make rugby more accessible to poor black kids?

The situation is almost exactly the same as in this country - the differences being that the poor kids in SA are a ****load more poor, and the British Government isn't imposing quotas on the number of English players who mustn't be privately educated.

The lack of black rugby players legitimately fit to play for the Boks certainly is a socio-economic issue.

I never said I thought anything mate, I'm explaining what there grievance is....I'm not offering a solution but you cannot separate race from rugby in a country like SA not so soon after apartheid.

Yes, it's a socio-economic deeply rooted in decades of institutionalized racism, comparing it to the situation in the UK is utterly ridciolous the only comparison is in numbers squandered and even then...

And if it's not for SARU to address representation in their national team then whose is it? Surely It's their job to make the game accessible, how they do it is beside the point.

 

[goodNumber10]

Exactly...it is the same situation in Australia with the disproportionate amount of Pacific Islanders on the Wallabies and in Hong Kong with their rugby sides being majority White.

It's nothing like either of those.

 

[Catalan Bronco]

It's nothing like either of those.

"It's not racism if the product of players that happen to be african are just not as good as the white players." <- It is exactly like that. The minority is over represented in the side because the talent in greater in that group. In Oz and Hong Kong (just like SA) because those groups participate in the sport more than the majority. Fact.