Salary Cap Investigations

[die_mole]

No they didn't.

In the 4 years before Rangers went bankrupt, only 3 teams other than Rangers or Celtic won a Cup or League ***le.

My point is, without Rangers, other clubs had a chance to shine; and without Sarries, other rugby clubs may win some ***les.

your first post used league cup and Scottish cup as the metric, I looked it up and 7 different teams won those comps in the four years before rangers fell apart.

celtic won the league every year rangers was in the bottom leagues.

If you want to use statistics, learn how to use statistics. But first you have to learn how to count.

 

[Lancashire Nick]

your first post used league cup and Scottish cup as the metric, I looked it up and 7 different teams won those comps in the four years before rangers fell apart.

celtic won the league every year rangers was in the bottom leagues.

If you want to use statistics, learn how to use statistics. But first you have to learn how to count.

What are you talking about ? 4 seasons before Rangers died in summer of 2012 ....
League Cup : 2008-09 Celtic, 2009-10 and 2010-2011 Rangers, 2011-12 Kilmarnock
Scottish Cup : 2008-09 Rangers, 2009-10 Dundee Utd, 2010-11 Celtic, 2011-12 Hearts

As I said 3 teams other than the Old Firm, don't know where you get your figure of 7 from.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Honestly, does anyone give a **** about Scottish football? How about we talk about the actual thread topic, ay.




So after the PRL said Sarries blocked the release of the report, the new Sarries chairman says they actually want it released - so looks like it's imminent (daily mail rugby journo mentioned a 103 page report needing to be speed read).

 

[bushytop]

Honestly, does anyone give a **** about Scottish football? How about we talk about the actual thread topic, ay.




So after the PRL said Sarries blocked the release of the report, the new Sarries chairman says they actually want it released - so looks like it's imminent (daily mail rugby journo mentioned a 103 page report needing to be speed read).

I'll wait for the abridged version

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

And prem rugby saying that they've just changed their tune rather than that's what they've always wanted.

Gotta love that they sticking to one of their four core values, honesty.

NGL this is acc quite funny, like a weird rugby soap opera

 

[duncanb]

Glad it will be released then all can see what was going on and end speculation.
Club accept the relegation as unsurprisingly were unable to comply.
As well as Wray PRL come out as well in this in not the greatest light.
Rfus veiled threat of bringing game into disrepute charge seems a tad rich as club have admitted crime and excepted 2 separate punishments .
1 for previous transgressions and another for this season's one.
Whilst I realise double jeapody is no longer recognized legally it smacks of another attempting bite at cherry.
Other than Exeter no one is shouting to loudly from rest Premier clubs are there a few more sweaty bums out there worried of president now set?
Rather than the previous stance of ignoring what was going on.

 

[Abraxaz]

All this proves is that there is no need to invest or even have a academy.

You ever cant afford to keep the players once they come of age or you have to sell them on to the betterment of another team.

Might as well cut the academy and just hire south Africans.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

All this proves is that there is no need to invest or even have a academy.

You ever cant afford to keep the players once they come of age or you have to sell them on to the betterment of another team.

Might as well cut the academy and just hire south Africans.

Umm I thought it proved the opposite. Sarries would be under the cap if they hadn't brought in their foreign impacts and just used their academy players.

Players like Skelton, Maitland, L Williams etc weren't needed, they just forged their books to have a deeper squad.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

All this proves is that there is no need to invest or even have a academy.

Or just do what Bath does and use someone elses

 

[ncurd]

Or just do what Bath does and use someone elses

I hear Sarries have a good one and no longer feeds a premiership club.

 

[Abraxaz]

It's weird how the prl can limit a players salary?

I player could be at the top of his game best in the world but for one bad tackle and his careers over. But the prl are like sorry mate but you cant earn your potential and have security in later life because some clubs can get enough bums on seats to raise the cash??

It's not like the prl has a retirement fund for injured players?

It's just weird in my head, bit like the government saying to certain people like doctors "cant give you the pay you deserve because the Spanish doctors are paid less"

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Or it stops the over inflation of wages and the death of the pro game in the country - most clubs already struggle and/or are propped up by a sugar daddy. Players don't move from the Gold Coast to Coventry for the weather and scenery - they do it because they can make more money, but that's not sustainable for the club's. It's not "their worth" if it's not possible to do without the club going bankrupt.

Release the reigns and no one could keep up with the billionaires (?) behind the likes of Sarries and Bristol.
Either the league becomes a joke of one or two sides at the top and everyone else massively behind, or every other club goes bust trying to keep up.

Frankly there's not much money in club rugby and the wages are higher than the game can support/sustain.
Even the clubs making a profit aren't exactly rolling in it.

 

[bushytop]

Either the league becomes a joke of one or two sides at the top and everyone else massively behind, or every other club goes bust trying to keep up.

No one is interested in Scottish Football... hang on, my bad .

 

[bushytop]

So have read a couple of articles this morning (extremely abridged versions in fairness) and although the report proves Saracens broke the rules and deserve to receive punishment etc. nothing particularly 'juicy' if you know what I mean. Maybe all the rumours have just desensitised me to the actual infringements.

There is obviously still the possibility that things will come out as financial specialists trawl through all 103 pages with a fine-tooth comb though.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

1 thing I don't get.
The report says that Saracens overpaid 30% of Maro's image rights in order to underpay him for a salary yet also say that Saracens didn't do this on purpose?

 

[Chief Pete]

Got to question Sarries sincerity in their apology, despite already spending what they were spending they were still trying to spend more, remember several sources reporting they were going to offer Etzebeth 70k - 90k a game for up to 8 games (six nations/injury cover)...

Point being seems they're sorry they got caught rather than for breaking the rules...

 

[Mr Ruggleby]

1 thing I don't get.
The report says that Saracens overpaid 30% of Maro's image rights in order to underpay him for a salary yet also say that Saracens didn't do this on purpose?

I think the reason this is somewhat defensible is because the initial valuation was recommended by an independent adviser (PWC). As part of the investigation, another accounting firm (Deloitte I believe) valued the image rights differently. Because it is not really as tangible an asset as something like property, there is probably a greater degree of subjectivity when it comes to valuation. That said, the investment was still clearly a way of paying him outside of the cap - albeit, it seems, a legal one (had the value not been questioned).

 

[Scotty]

One thing i find wierd is vunipolas got an interest free loan it said... can that be counted if they have to pay it back? I dont know if they do but does use the term loan so it suggests.

 

[Mr Ruggleby]

Got to question Sarries sincerity in their apology, despite already spending what they were spending they were still trying to spend more, remember several sources reporting they were going to offer Etzebeth 70k - 90k a game for up to 8 games (six nations/injury cover)...

Point being seems they're sorry they got caught rather than for breaking the rules...

I do think they genuinely believed they had found and exploited loopholes and would win any legal or regulatory challenge. They sought independent legal and accounting advice to confirm this.

That being said, they absolutely knowingly paid players outside of the cap in order to keep them at the club, but I think it is clear that they did so thinking it was within the "technical" rules. Morally, it's clearly wrong. Also, having reviewed the salary cap wording in detail, I find it hard to believe that the legal advice didn't come with a serious caveat along the lines of "this is really risky and could put you in breach depending on interpretation." Assuming it did, then the decision to proceed and not take preemptive action to reshape the squad at an earlier point was stupid at best and knowingly devious at worst.

I feel particularly bad for Chiefs as they are the one premiership club for whom the detailed breaches would almost certainly have impacted some of the silverware won over the period.

 

[McTallshort]

One thing i find wierd is vunipolas got an interest free loan it said... can that be counted if they have to pay it back? I dont know if they do but does use the term loan so it suggests.

If there was no interest on the loan it could be interpreted as a wage advance (which is actually was).