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Sam Cane announced as All Blacks Captain

Steve-o

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Huge honour for Sam Cane, so congrats to him and his family.

On the other hand he doesn't have the same aura of McCaw or Read. An on form McCaw and Read were unstoppable. Can't say the same about him though (maybe yet?). Big shoes to fill.
 

mania

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Speaking of poster boy, and I know you aren’t suggesting it should be considered, but Sam cane is about the worst poster boy we could have. He’s the most stereotypical simple white rural person you will find in New Zealand, and will only serve to keep that section of all blacks support which has remained loyal over the last 25 years, during which time there has been some major loss or shifting of loyalties amongst other subcultures. Educated white city boys and girls Are no longer particularly interested in rugby, Especially left wing leaning ones, small town Maori still have some interest but their level of passion has diminished, many Aucklanders, Polynesian and white, have shifted allegiance to league.

rugby being seen as the rich white boys game, governed by them, coached, captained, and all looking after their own, doesn’t help keep the rugby culture strong.

I’m not saying there was any great alternatives though, except maybe a co-captain idea could have helped push the view that the all blacks represent multi-cultural New Zealand.

Ideally there would be a public figure in rugby representing the educated left wing. Tj is probably the closest we have; he is outspoken about gay rights and mental health, as are Ardie, Brad Weber, and Anton Lienert-Brown brown. But they need to be more public than they currently are, so the fringe supporters see it. Tj is also outspoken about educating himself, for example in learning the te reo Maori. We can’t really expect rugby players to be tertiary educated these days as they are playing rugby instead of getting tertiary qualifications.

ideally there would be a public figure in rugby representing Polynesians. Who are the next Polynesian superstars? We have Ardie, the rest are quiet humble types. They probably need a bigger voice.

what about Maori? There are No true, immersed in the culture, Maori in the all blacks at the moment. Tj is probably the best here because, while he has felt like a “plastic” Maori, he outwardly respects the Maori culture and is trying to learn more about it.

so, on pure poster boy status, tj and Ardie could be co-captains. Maybe Ardie starts as captain, tj comes off the bench and becomes the new captain.

now, back to your point of requiring the captain to have the respect of the players, I think tj has, but isn’t first choice starter. Maybe he could have been a co-captain with Sam Whitelock, and Ardie brought into the leadership group for an apprenticeship. 2 years later Whitelock steps down, with Ardie moving into a co-captain role. Or, Sam cane as captain, Ardie and tj as official vice captains.
Sorry I disagree. Captain should not be chosen for any other reason than rugby. TJs been caught lying a couple times in international tv and he’s a way better hb than he is a captain. Ardie s not needed. Let’s not start making pc appointments just to keep everyone happy. Let’s just concentrate on rugby
 

mania

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Sorry I disagree. Captain should not be chosen for any other reason than rugby. TJs been caught lying a couple times on international tv and he’s a way better hb than he is a captain. Ardie s not needed. Let’s not start making pc appointments just to keep everyone happy. Let’s just concentrate on rugby
 

Jabby

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There were more deserving captains at the time. Ian Jones to name one. Taine was too young and hadn’t been in the ABs long enough to deserve any real respect. Hart used him because he was a perfect poster boy of what hart thought. Figure head should appear. Tall good looking educated part Maori.
We’re not going to agree, Taine was the last captain to have earned it with the dirt trackers, he’d toured for two years captaining now tests before getting the the big job

And ian Jones retired from test rugby the year after taine got the job so not exactly a long term option
 

Umaga's Witness

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Sorry I disagree. Captain should not be chosen for any other reason than rugby. TJs been caught lying a couple times in international tv and he’s a way better hb than he is a captain. Ardie s not needed. Let’s not start making pc appointments just to keep everyone happy. Let’s just concentrate on rugby
When you say Ardie is not needed, do you mean as a player or a captain? Because, as a player, he was nz rugby player of the year, by that account he is needed more than any other player.

and in terms of having a captain based on pure rugby grounds, sure, but most of what makes someone a good captain is the degree to which they have been moulded to be a captain. There is no doubt Sam cane has been in the process of becoming captain for a very long time, with a lot of effort being put in by coaches and senior players to help him get to that point. So, how do you choose who to mould into that position? Sam cane was chosen because he was a big hard working boy, there are lots of people who also fit that description. What other characteristics mattered in seeking out Sam cane and putting all that effort into him? Well humans are humans, while we like to think we are making rational decisions, truth is unconscious biases play a big role. He was probably unconsciously believed to be hardworking, loyal, smart, because he was a white farm boy.

what I’m saying is two things
1. To encourage interest in the game the right players need to have a public presence. That doesn’t necessarily mean captaincy, that is just one route.
2. There are a lot of people who can be moulded into a good captain, so why not make your criteria, for how you choose such a person, relate to a greater purpose, for example encouraging interest in the game.
 

mania

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When you say Ardie is not needed, do you mean as a player or a captain? Because, as a player, he was nz rugby player of the year, by that account he is needed more than any other player.
as a captain

and in terms of having a captain based on pure rugby grounds, sure, but most of what makes someone a good captain is the degree to which they have been moulded to be a captain.
in my experience a captain is a natural. sure someone can learn to be a captain but in the main you know who is captain material right away without them having to be groomed for it
 

mania

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We’re not going to agree, Taine was the last captain to have earned it with the dirt trackers, he’d toured for two years captaining now tests before getting the the big job
And ian Jones retired from test rugby the year after taine got the job so not exactly a long term option

dont get me wrong. im a huge Taine fan, but i have to say that him getting the captaincy ruined his career. too much spot light and the shine was about his captaincy and not about his ability. then Mitchell came along and screwed him even more. Taine was hard done by. one of our best players of his time.
 

The_Blindside

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Taine was quite young when he got the AB captaincy wasn’t he? A bit like Richie when he got the captaincy after Tana. Both Taine and Richie’s first world cups ended at the hands of France. The only difference being AB management stuck with Richie and he became a legend, whereas Taine came over to UK to pay for Sarries IIRC.

And I think the leadership group surrounding any captain is just as important.
 
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