Samoa is the most improved International team!

[Peat]

That's fair enough but what then about these players playing for other countries in U20 or national schools teams earlier in their carreers? IMO DON"T play for the country you are not going to turn out for as you are denying guys who want too and are willing to make a commitment that chance. You are old enough to decide where your loyalties/identity lies. To get back to my point U20 is old enough to make a commitment IMO; how many guys around that age are turning out for senior sides in recent years! I can't see why they shouldn't be 'locked in.

Fair enough line of argument if it goes for everyone. Personally I'm not for it - I want players to go and take the best opportunities available to them at that age without worrying too much about what it means for the future. It makes for better rugby for me to watch. Nor do I want players being called in just to give them a cap. From a purely selfish point of view, I should probably be in favour of this: England get a reasonable influx of players from SA and NZ, but in turn we leak players to our neighbours, and right now I feel we do worse out of it as a rule. But I'm not that fussed in that sense. Player movement will not make or break England's international future, nor is U20 rugby a massive indispensable tool in player development. I just want lots of good rugby to watch, and what we've got enables that.

 

[nickdnz]

If NZ make their U-20 their designated second team, that will be disallowed very soon by the IRB. Too much to lose for the other countries.
I'm against that being possible anyway. (note: France has neither profited nor being profited from this. No French U-20 has played for another country, and no one that has played U-20 for another country has played for France)

Noa Nakaitaci captained Fiji's U20 team.

Ah, come on Nick, that is balls and you know it. There's absolutely nothing to stop a guy from feeling a part of two communities and being proud to represent either. Or for a guy to feel more connection to his parents' land than the land he grew up in, or even the land of his grandparents - which in the case of Isaac Boss, what I've heard on Ulster sites and seen from his interviews, is true in a sporting sense at least.

And every method of eligibility can be abused. Even place of birth. Tom Heathcote was born on his parents' holiday in Scotland and never been back until he was capped to the best of my knowledge. He's as Scottish as Edward I. You'd have to have some very draconian restrictions in place to stop that.

I disagree. Not that I don't think it's possible to consider yourself part of two countries of course I think thats what happens - I'm sure there are millions of immigrants who consider their adopted country as home - and their old country as an equally important part of them. What I do disagree with is claiming that one feels a country is home after one or two seasons or even less. All my grandparents are English - and they're about as English as you can get. I personally feel that additional generation is far too far removed for me or anyone else to genuinely consider another country like that their home.

You use Isaac Boss as an example - well I'm certain he would feel that way. In New Zealand he barely made the Canes' starting lineup - in Ireland he gets thrown a jersey coming off the plane. That doesn't mean to say that when he was selected for Ireland he truly believed he was Irish - nor do I believe that had he been offered the chance to play for the All Blacks at the same time as he got the offer for Ireland that he would accept the latter. As I said - by no means am I saying a person can't adopt another country as their home - all I'm saying is that if you feel another country is your home then you should have no problem playing there untill you qualify on residency. Yes you can pick wholes in other systems - but I genuinely think being eligable through grandparents is abused as a rule rather than the exception.

 

[Le_Manu]

This is what rugby means to the Samoan people

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/98c4MscGHPc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Draggs]

So much for hyping up the SA match. (Been away since then, hello all)
Samoa went out there ready to play the thug and SA thumped them good and proper.

(Just like the Scotland match, if those incidents against the Springboks went the other way, heads would roll at the IRB )

 

[UilamOsa]

Its the truth!


Someone has to speak up for the Islanders!

Yeah. Not for me.

Also, I'd have to say for all Manu's potential - they and Tonga & Fiji have the same problem. Discipline.
I can imagine with the all the talent those teams have that they can pretty much go toe to toe against the top sides and be more than respectable - but this whole need to play rough and go that extra mile is so unnecessary.

How many test matches has Tuilagi played? How many games of Pro Rugby has he played? And still puts forward a lazy arm for a headshot.

For every test match where we go forward, we will always take a small step back.

 

[UilamOsa]

This is what rugby means to the Samoan people

<iframe src="//www.youtube.com/embed/98c4MscGHPc" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

You do realize that Paul Williams (and Gavin) were NZ born players, who's Samoan Heritage father represented the All Blacks?

 

[Le_Manu]

You do realize that Paul Williams (and Gavin) were NZ born players, who's Samoan Heritage father represented the All Blacks?

What your point?

 

[Le_Manu]

So much for hyping up the SA match. (Been away since then, hello all)
Samoa went out there ready to play the thug and SA thumped them good and proper.

(Just like the Scotland match, if those incidents against the Springboks went the other way, heads would roll at the IRB )

Yea I think it was shaping up to be a good game. I thought it was the best chance for Samoa to upset SA. But the discipline was very disappointing and the fact SA played awesome too. Ahh well, we will just have to keep on trying!

 

[Muzzy]

You do realize that Paul Williams (and Gavin) were NZ born players, who's Samoan Heritage father represented the All Blacks?

lol 90% of the Samoan team are born in NZ

 

[Le_Manu]

lol 90% of the Samoan team are born in NZ

Does that make them less Samoan?

 

[donmcdazzle]

Does that make them less Samoan?

Someone born and raised in NZ is definitely less Samoan than someone born and raised in Samoa. So far less Samoan that they're actually a New Zealander.

 

[Le_Manu]

Someone born and raised in NZ is definitely less Samoan than someone born and raised in Samoa. So far less Samoan that they're actually a New Zealander.

less Samoan...more Samoan, still Samoan

 

[Feicarsinn]

I'm Samoan and so is my wife.

 

[BRSTLDRGN]

I'm Samoan and so is my wife.

Dammit, I wanted to make that joke.

 

[Draggs]

I'm not Samoan. The Fijians I know are all cool guys, so Ill just assume it is the same in Samoa. You lads need to stay off the twitter though! The island tour in 2017 might be worth checking out. Hope we send a better team than what we did in Japan, we'd get ripped to shreds!

 

[Le_Manu]

I'm not Samoan. The Fijians I know are all cool guys, so Ill just assume it is the same in Samoa. You lads need to stay off the twitter though! The island tour in 2017 might be worth checking out. Hope we send a better team than what we did in Japan, we'd get ripped to shreds!

Scotland toured last year too. I really do thank the likes of Scotland and Wales for touring the Islands.

What do you mean by staying off twitter?

 

[Draggs]

Scotland toured last year too. I really do thank the likes of Scotland and Wales for touring the Islands.

What do you mean by staying off twitter?

Like I said, the blokes I know from the Pacific Islands ae great folks, and from what I have heard they are great in Cardiff.

I was referring to Eliota. He had a point sometime, but he really went about it the wrong way.

 

[Le_Manu]

Like I said, the blokes I know from the Pacific Islands ae great folks, and from what I have heard they are great in Cardiff.

I was referring to Eliota. He had a point sometime, but he really went about it the wrong way.

ohh yes Eliota after the RWC.

 

[Big Ewis]

well...I think the obvious conclusion to this thread is if Samoa somehow one day end up in the situation where they have all the money they need Tier 1 nations have for their national side, they're Tier 1 for good, no doubt.

EDIT: btw would LOVE to see Samoa join the RC along with the other 4...I know it's hard from a logistics pov..

 

[sifplay]

So much for hyping up the SA match. (Been away since then, hello all)
Samoa went out there ready to play the thug and SA thumped them good and proper.

(Just like the Scotland match, if those incidents against the Springboks went the other way, heads would roll at the IRB )

Violence Violence Violence. That is how intimidation is done in rugby. Can't really blame Samoans for trying to rip some of the SA heads off. Playing at Loftus the final pillar standing of the Afrikaner, against big physical South Africans who likes to test your manhood.

Not much motivation needed. The match up basically promotes itself

I'm not Samoan. The Fijians I know are all cool guys, so Ill just assume it is the same in Samoa. You lads need to stay off the twitter though! The island tour in 2017 might be worth checking out. Hope we send a better team than what we did in Japan, we'd get ripped to shreds!

Why should Eliouta stay off twitter. He is such a great friendly guy. He is honest say what he thinks. But he respects all

ohh yes Eliota after the RWC.

But he was right. Scheduling of so called minnows rediconculas