Saracens Fielding an Inelgible Player

[Leinster Fan]

https://www.independent.ie/sport/ru...g-potentially-ineligible-player-38935748.html

No idea what the exact facts are, or what the precedent for punishing a breach like this, talk of them being thrown out seems sensationalist but who knows, they don't have many friends at the moment.

Either way, they've admitted Titi Lamotisele's work permit expired the day before the Racing game.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Saracens really going from strength to strength at the moment.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Chucking them out for that would smack of victimisation. But ineligible's ineligible and with a panel comprising representatives from Wales, Scotland and France you wouldn't fancy their chances......

Just as long as they get treated the same way as anyone else.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Ineligible player is a points docking in the Premiership - we had a very similar situation a number of years back (recalled a guy from being on loan, but didn't register him as returned in time) and missed out on top 4 as a result.
London Welsh had it happen in one of their prem stints too.

No idea what would happen in Europe, though, especially as knockouts are all sorted and arranged now so a points deduction would mean a logistical nightmare organising a new match.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Ineligible player is a points docking in the Premiership - we had a very similar situation a number of years back (recalled a guy from being on loan, but didn't register him as returned in time) and missed out on top 4 as a result.
London Welsh had it happen in one of their prem stints too.

No idea what would happen in Europe, though, especially as knockouts are all sorted and arranged now so a points deduction would mean a logistical nightmare organising a new match.

You'd imagine a points deduction or forfeit would be the penalty. A forfeit would be a nightmare a deduction not so much.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

You'd imagine a points deduction or forfeit would be the penalty. A forfeit would be a nightmare a deduction not so much.

Points deduction would mean they didn't qualify for the knockouts though, wouldn't it?
So it's not a punishment if they don't get removed from the game



Edit: To be fair, reading the article, it's not as bad as it first seems.
He was fully registered to play it's just his work permit had expired. I guess this technically nulls his registration in the comp, but over the matter of a few hours. It's not like they drafted him in by surprise and played him without informing anyone - I imagine fine, smack on the wrists etc.

 

[big ginger 8]

The linked article suggests the end result would be Glasgow swapping in for Sarries.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Points deduction would mean they didn't qualify for the knockouts though, wouldn't it?
So it's not a punishment if they don't get removed from the game

Yeah, but the result is a straight swap, Glasgow for Sarries. A forfeit shuffles up the order and every fixture as a result.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

The linked article suggests the end result would be Glasgow swapping in for Sarries.

Ah, **** that. Glasgow are a bunch of grubs
#Justice4Sarries

 

[Leinster Fan]

You'd imagine if they do decide, rightly or wrongly, to give them the boot, a straight swap with Glasgow is the only feasible option.

 

[Which Tyler]

Plenty of precedent in the premiership, IIRC 5 point deduction is he standard even for basic admin error of a few hours.
I'd be surprised if EPRC rules were any different.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

IIRC 5 point deduction is he standard

We only got a 1pt deduction,
London Welsh got 5pts but their guy was ineligble for 10 games (I think?) so was treated more harshly

 

[Which Tyler]

We only got a 1pt deduction,
London Welsh got 5pts but their guy was ineligble for 10 games (I think?) so was treated more harshly

Thank you - and just had a look, Exeter and Gloucester both got 2 points deducted - and 1-2 points seems a lot more fair (especially in a competition with 6 rounds, not 22!)

Of course, precedent usually covers breach in competition rules (registered with another club), not national law - and to my understanding, national law means that you can still work as long as you're in the process or extending the visa - so it OUGHT to be okay.
So it'll just depend on whether EPRC want to give them a kicking as well...

ETA: By my maths, a 1 point deduction means that Sarries retain their place (4 wins to Glasgow's 3); but a 2 point deduction gives that spot to Glasgow

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

To be completely honest I kind of hope that nothing comes of this. Saracens being booted from the competition would once again stink of players being punished for the actions of their employers. Is there a monetary reward for the club for winning the competition? Maybe allow Saracens to keep competing but, should they win, they won’t be allowed the reward? So that players get the glory but owners don’t get the cash.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

To be completely honest I kind of hope that nothing comes of this. Saracens being booted from the competition would once again stink of players being punished for the actions of their employers. Is there a monetary reward for the club for winning the competition? Maybe allow Saracens to keep competing but, should they win, they won’t be allowed the reward? So that players get the glory but owners don’t get the cash.

I don't really know what word I'm thinking of to describe this post. Righteous comes to mind but that seems a bit too belittling. A bit naive maybe.
If any organisation cheats/fucks up to a degree where it harms everyone it's just tough luck for those not involved. If a company gets mismanaged it's often the lowliest employees that get hit hardest regardless of their rights and protection, I don't think any sympathy should be given to well/over-payed athletes who will only lose an opportunity.

I hope nothing comes of it because I can't wait to see Leinster beat them but if they do go, they deserve it.

 

[Which Tyler]

Just so long as EPRC play it by the book; rather than drafting a new book, and then applying it retrospectively like PRL did.
That's all I ask - be it a telling off, a fine, a 1 point deduction or a 5 point deduction - just go with the existing procedures!

 

[munstermuffin]

You'd imagine if they do decide, rightly or wrongly, to give them the boot, a straight swap with Glasgow is the only feasible option.

Issue is Racing will, and rightfully too, appeal for the awarding of the game. And then we will be reorganizing alot. A win for Racing would mean they are in Paris.

Also if they are thrown out or eliminated in non rugby way it does weaken the tournament I feel. Not in playing terms just it begins to have a feel of that 99 tournament

 

[duncanb]

I see no satisfactory outcome whatever happens.
Seems a small admin error over work permit, rather than non registration etc where most of precedent comes from.
Guilty and a fine maybe but have no clue maybe then a rewrite of punishment for work permit offences.
Alot of pressure on panel for sure as tickets hospitality flights travel etc will have been booked.

 

[Leinster Fan]

It has to be said that being thrown out would be harsh for what's clearly just a minor admin error. It does seem too late to go around drastically reorganizing things as tickets are already on sale. Fine seems the most likely outcome.

 

[Scotty]

Can you imagine being Sarries players. WC finalists to get back to your club. To be deducted 35 points then then be relagated, to the.get to the champions cup QF, to get kicked out of that. And then you only thing you have going for you is the prem rugby cup and youve put out a C team against Sale 1st XV.

And in the only other thing outside sarries the players lose to France. Not happy times for sarries

(I am aware they no action has been taken yet on the CC issue)