Saracens sign Springbok flanker

Discussion in 'Aviva Premiership / LV Cup' started by getofmeland, May 16, 2008.

  1. getofmeland

    getofmeland Guest

    Saracens sign Springbok flanker

    Saracens have signed South Africa's World Cup-winning flanker Wikus van Heerden from Super 14 side the Bulls.

    The 29-year-old, who could fill the vacancy created by Richard Hill's retirement, will join on a three-year deal in November.

    The 6ft 4in forward has won 14 caps and was on the bench when the Springboks won the World Cup final in 2007.

    Director of rugby Eddie Jones told the club website: "He's a player who leads by example, on and off the pitch."

    Jones added: "He also has the ability to play in a number of different positions and having worked with him during the World Cup, I know his high work-rate, knowledge, physical approach to the game and ability to lead from the front will make him a real asset to the club." Van Heerden looks set to fill the void left by the recently retired Hill and joins Wales forward Michael Owen and England captain Steve Borthwick as new additions to the Saracens pack next season.

    From BBC Sport
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  3. Prestwick

    Prestwick Guest

    Need a good stop-gap until Don Barrell comes of age. van Heerden fits this role perfectly!
  4. C A Iversen

    C A Iversen Guest

    Well developed Saracens! What a talent program you have! Such depth, such foresight! Oh to be a spoilt for choice UK manager!

    It's trying to find which locals you DON'T want to use which is the real challenge obviously, lol!

    Mind you remember, SH rugby is not better. We want to pay through the nose for the SH players because it does them good to play in a stronger competition. This is not sarcasm, it's my sincere heartfelt belief. :D
  5. Prestwick

    Prestwick Guest

    What a nice attempt at baiting there CA! Pity its flawed because its based upon hilarious ignorance of the actual facts! Care to put out some more wildly inaccurate and just plain wrong assertions out there?

    The reality is that Saracens have one of the best funded Academy programs in the Guinness Premiership. Saracens Academy players have so far produced young players like Noah Cato, Alex Goode and Don Barrell for example, all of which are currently still currently very young and very very green. Our Academy Structure and Saracens Foundation programs are so strong in fact that Saracens have been voted joint Community Club of the Year with Bath by the All-Party Parliamentary Rugby Union Group. Put that in yer damn pipe and smoke it.

    This view that the Saracens first XV is made up of retired foreigners is horribly out of date. 1998? Quite true, the team was being mis-managed which would put Saracens off kilter for a good eight years or so.

    2008 though? Rubbish. Lets have a look at the HEC game against Munster, only five out of the match day XV came from abroad, spread across the field and this is because the guys who are due to replace them are still being brought through the Academy system.

    In fact, this small foreign legion is actually set to go down as more and more Academy players come of age and are put out onto the field for first XV Rugby. Glenn Jackson, for example, is set to retire which will mean duties at ten will be passed to young Alex Goode and Gordon Ross. Ratovou is going to probably mentor young Noah Cato at wing and so forth.

    Compare this to Leicester Tigers who, despite still having the tag of being part of the "holy trinity" of clubs feeding the England international set up, field a whopping seven foreigners on a regular basis in their match day XV. Sale? Eight. So, why exactly are Saracens getting this unfair stick?

    That fact is that the Academy was only set up in the early 2000s and is now beginning to bear fruit. Until then, what exactly do you expect us to do in the meantime? Players with experience and talent don't exactly grow on trees and they don't suddenly appear in Watford.

    As for teams getting foreign coaches in, so what? Eddie Jones worked for South Africa...oooo! Obviously de-values their World Cup win doesn't it?! We're a team and we want to win so what exactly is wrong with trying to get a coaching set up which can win us games. Don't forget that England defence coach Mike Ford cut his teeth at Saracens in the early 2000s.

    In fact, I hear Tanaki are doing the good thing and are deciding NOT to look locally for a second row, opting instead to borrow 23 year old Tom Ryder (Saracens by the way) for the Air New Zealand Cup. Oh the sweet, sweet irony :lol:

    A flawed baiting attempt flopping due to excessive ignorance and hypocrisy? You knows it clart! :lol:
  6. C A Iversen

    C A Iversen Guest

    Yeah great, didn't get nothing with that bait did I, lol :) C'mon man what is it that they say? The truth will set you free? Either that or leave you blinded with rage, lol :D
  7. Prestwick

    Prestwick Guest

    Wasn't really blinded with rage, more taking delicious delight in making you look like an ignorant dope for your silly statement.:lol:

    In this case, the truth set me free, and made you look like a prize fool. :)
  8. Thats a great signing, the Sarries struggle to get over the advantage line enough, Van Heerden will do this time after time. Also after 10 rounds i think he was by far the top tackler in super 14. Averaging 12-13 tackles a match.
  9. Prestwick

    Prestwick Guest

    And this is where Saracens have had severe trouble in the past few seasons. You yourself Schalk saw it when Saracens visted Glasgow on the HEC campaign and I've seen it time and again. The lack of forward punch just means that games get severely bogged down in the mire and that we never even see the gain line unless Kevin Sorrell or Richard Haughton somehow manage to thread their way through.

    Don Barrell is a good learner and his starts so far have been encouraging but he is way too inexperienced. Against the Ospreys in the EDF Semi-Final he was seriously lacking against more experienced opposition. Maybe a season or three as Van Heerden's understudy will sharpen him up a bit..
  10. C A Iversen

    C A Iversen Guest

    Wasn't really blinded with rage, more taking delicious delight in making you look like an ignorant dope for your silly statement. :lol:

    In this case, the truth set me free, and made you look like a prize fool. :)

    Cheap name calling, eh? Guess I won that discussion then. I haven't stooped. Nothing you said made me look like a prize fool. Just remember, you won "best arguer" not "forum admin with rights to insult people".

    It's interesting (and signs of resorting to name calling), that you took "delicious delight in making me look like an ignorant dope for my silly statement" and "made me look like a prize fool". Thats just your point of view, however based on the insubstansial grounds of personal opinion. I would say that you have succeeded on those two points when you can point out another 5 or 6 members who think I am what you called me. Then what you said will be right. Right now they stand as desperate words.
  11. Prestwick

    Prestwick Guest

    Sadly not. At the end of the day, the only cheap thing being banded about was your cheap attempt to score points at a NH club. It failed miserably when I pointed out the actual facts. These are not 'opinions', these are not based on 'insubstansial grounds'. It is a simple, cold, hard fact that Saracens actually field far less foreigners in the GP than most of the other clubs.

    It is a simple, basic, undeniable fact that Saracens have one of the best Academy and local development structures in the GP, one of owner Nigel Wray's best acheivements since taking over the club.

    I think the interesting thing here is you are so desperate as to make an attempt to try and take the focus away from the fact that you had absolutely no idea what you were talking about and were made to look silly. To be honest, if you are going to open your mouth without taking the due dilligence to research beforehand, then what exactly did you expect?

    However, that does not make me right, nor will asking around for people to confirm scurillous things such as you being a so called idiot or a fool.

    What makes me right are the facts and no amount of hyperbole over the use of the word "fool" is going to change that.

    Game, set & match to me, unless you can find some hidden file at Saracens HQ that shows that Nigel Wray is going to sell the club to some S14 franchise to flood the GP with foreign players?
  12. C A Iversen

    C A Iversen Guest

    What's ridiculous is that you are quoting lists of facts that I never disputed or even spoke of. I had a dig with sarcasm about another UK team, buying yet another SH player. I stated that Saracens don't have a good talent development program. It was hardly a serious critique. I was just taking the ****.

    Game, set & match? What are you, five? End of the day, you have your view on NH teams buying SH players and I have mine.
  13. Prestwick

    Prestwick Guest

    Now, now! Don't get all hot under the collar and start backpedaling! Like I said, if you want to "take the ****" then do your homework next time! Otherwise, if you just wade in, what exactly did you expect to happen?

    Sadly, while "taking the ****", you were disputing what Saracens have done. The facts I listed were in response to the sarky comments about Saracen's Academy scheme and so on which were completely wrong. Its not my opinion, its a simple fact.

    Anyway, enjoy Tom Ryder, he's a good player!
  14. BLR

    BLR Guest

    Why are you bringing a type of japanese food into the argument? :bana:
  15. Maccaweeny

    Maccaweeny Guest

    'hyperbole' i love that word.

    I remember when I was debating for my school at 15, i pronounced it hyper bowl and many lols were to be had, all at my expense.
  16. Prestwick

    Prestwick Guest

    Sonny Chiba told me to do it.

    Remeber, wise man in Hokkaido once said: "do not do yourself what a woman can do for you.." :bana:
  17. C A Iversen

    C A Iversen Guest

    Look, your not listening to a thing I'm saying. Your looking for another one of your "wins", which I'm about to let you have as it obviously matters to you so much.

    So, finally I'm not hot under the collar, so you are wrong about that. Is that possible? You being wrong about any detail?

    I haven't backpedalled on anything, I just believe anyones got the right to post throw-away comments on any subject and their basic point can survive even if their sentences are pulled apart and analysed to have slight flaws. Saracens local talent development, whilst from what you have said is very good, it's still poor by the standards which NZ or other SH teams generally hold themselves to have.

    You said, "Like I said, if you want to "take the ****" then do your homework next time!". Well, I'm sure in your world, people who satarise any subject must spend their lives researching the material they want to mock. For myself and many others, we don't have to live up to your standards.

    "Sadly, while "taking the ****", you were disputing what Saracens have done". I may as well clarify myself. I was meant to make a general comment about UK and European teams buying SH players and how in general it seems that they don't develop enough local talent.

    "The facts I listed were in response to the sarky comments about Saracen's Academy scheme and so on which were completely wrong. Its not my opinion, its a simple fact." I never made a reference to Saracen's Academy scheme specifically. I just was sarcastically saying that Saracen's obviously have a hole in their local development which has needed to be filled by going to a South African.

    As for your comment, "Anyway, enjoy Tom Ryder, he's a good player!". Well, he may be good or whatever. I honestly don't know how he'll do until he starts. He'll no doubt be made welcome. If your point made by raising his name is to say, "Well you guys buy our nations players", then it's a weak point. The in-flow of players from the UK and Europe to play in NZ local competitions is ridiculously low compared to what is happening in reverse.

    The loss of talent to cheque-books from the NH is a major problem for the Tri-Nations and it's going to become dire for us over the next few years if the flow of players continues. This is a major and hurtful problem for all of us on this side of the equator and of course sometimes we are going to make a few cheap shots back about it. If the situation was in reverse, I can imagine how much different some of the views we hear from the north would be.

    Look I don't have a snowballs chance in hell of getting you to understand or accept 1% of what I've said. I have made this post to hopefully clear up a few things. If I haven't, well I tried. I'm not going to call you a fool, because obviously you aren't, but I think it's obvious to myself that you are not a person who often, if ever makes concessions of even the smallest points to anyone. I can't continue to waste my time when it'd better be spent talking to someone who can see some of my points and I can see some of theirs. In this case I can see most of where your coming from and appreciate about half of it, but it obvious you won't have a grain of anything I say, period.

    So, there's your victory or whatever it is you'll doubtlessly claim. There's a finite amount of time for me to waste in one discussion as I have a daughter to raise from home and I only get so long where she's asleep. I'm not using her as an excuse, I'm just a little too busy nowadays for more than a couple of posts this long a month.

    Go Saracens.
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