Second Best First Five?

[SimonG]

Sexton's kicking (both field placement and goal kicking) is his Achilles heel..and given that kicking is the primary facet to the flyhalf position its a pretty glaring weakness. His running and offloadling is excellent and he can get away with his weakness if there is a goal kicker at full back (Halfpenny). The Lions team had the perfect balance.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Is this the same Sexton who cost Ireland the game against England? Apart from his tries against France he had a poor game there too. Go back and watch it. The amount of times moves broke down because of him was far too high. I know its a highly pressurised position and errors will occur but his error count against France and England was too high for all the praise he got. He played well at home against Italy, Scotland and especially Wales.

I know I gave him stick at the time but that England game isn't solely on him, he dropped from his extremely high standard to good and was still better than Farrell. Murray was very bad for the last three games of the championship in my opinion and it was reflected by how the team looked far more fluid, albeit against weaker opposition, in the Italian game with Reddan on the pitch .


Simon G, Chris Paterson was a winger...

 

[McTallshort]

How do I vote for Toby Flood?

 

[goodNumber10]

I tossed up having an 'other' option, but I don't think any other players have legitimate claims to being right up there. McAlister might come close.

Alternatively, you might not think DC is top at all, in which case simply vote for who you think is best!

Juan Martin Hernandez would come close... if it wasn't for injury messing up his career he would have been pushing Carter for best 10 in the world.

 

[goodNumber10]

Is this the same Sexton who cost Ireland the game against England? Apart from his tries against France he had a poor game there too. Go back and watch it. The amount of times moves broke down because of him was far too high. I know its a highly pressurised position and errors will occur but his error count against France and England was too high for all the praise he got. He played well at home against Italy, Scotland and especially Wales.

everyone has an off day, or a couple of off games.

Even dan carter.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Juan Martin Hernandez would come close... if it wasn't for injury messing up his career he would have been pushing Carter for best 10 in the world.

I don't think JMH has really fired at all since 2011 (and to be honest, he wasn't setting the world alight then, either), especially at international level.

 

[McTallshort]

JMH was a kick chase merchant and massively overated

 

[goodNumber10]

I don't think JMH has really fired at all since 2011 (and to be honest, he wasn't setting the world alight then, either), especially at international level.

He's been struggling with injury on and off pretty much since 2007 - hence me saying if it wasn't for injury and saying he'd come close to being int he top 10.

The guy had everything, a huge boot, an amazing step, power and an unbeliveable pass - when he was playing for Stade in 2008/2009 he was unbelievable. He seems to have settled into 15 now, but in 2007 he was the best 10 in the torunament.

 

[goodNumber10]

JMH was a kick chase merchant and massively overated

you're just bitter because he turned down the Tigers

 

[nzlizard]

Cruden at the moment, although I rate Sexton as the best in the northern hemisphere.

Barrett and Cooper as the most potential, eg can improve from where they were last year.

If I was AB's coach I would be looking to find a way to get Barrett into the starting 15, he currently is the super sub.

Coopers game has improved so much at super level this year and international level under under Mckenzie, he has the spark and unpredictability that can cut teams up, just need to get his head into the game and turn that tap on when he needs, also needs to learn the whole now is not the time to do dick stuff, but he is getting there.

I find it hard to take Jonny seriously as he looks like he is having a **** every time he takes a shot at goal, my son is 8 and asked if he Jonny was constipated when I was watching an old game and he was lining up a penalty.

 

[Peat]

Eh, I'd say there's a decent amount of space between Sexton and the next tier. 2 or 3 kicks aside, he was outstanding during the 6 nations, probably our best back on the balance of things. I think Cruden has a lot more raw ability, but Sexton is a very well rounded player without any glaring weaknesses (perhaps his kicking under pressure). A complete 10 out of the Stephen Jones bracket, with perhaps a little more to his running game.

http://www.thescore.ie/ken-quarrie-place-kicking-study-1318135-Feb2014/ - this puts Sexton and O'Gara equal for pressure kicks, although I'd be interested in seeing more up to date stats, the RWC was the only time he's kicked really badly, since then he's usually matched Halfpenny's percentages in the 6N.

http://thepowerofgoals.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/rating-rugby-union-kickers-by-kick.html - bit more up to date, puts Sexton in good enough company as a kicker.

I'd agree its pretty clear Sexton is the best fly-half in Europe. It amuses and baffles me in equal measures that some don't think so. There's been some pretty weird statements made about him for my money.

 

[goodNumber10]

I'd agree its pretty clear Sexton is the best fly-half in Europe. It amuses and baffles me in equal measures that some don't think so. There's been some pretty weird statements made about him for my money.

He is the best in Europe, he wasn't the best in the six nations

 

[Peat]

He is the best in Europe, he wasn't the best in the six nations

Dubious. Sexton was joint highest try scorer, highest points scorer, second most accurate goal kicker out of the fly-halves... I'd want to hear a pretty convincing reason why he wasn't the best fly-half in the tournament tbh.

 

[kenny_bee180]

Benji Marshall

 

[goodNumber10]

Dubious. Sexton was joint highest try scorer, highest points scorer, second most accurate goal kicker out of the fly-halves... I'd want to hear a pretty convincing reason why he wasn't the best fly-half in the tournament tbh.

Those stats are inflated by the italy game and the fact that being a goal kicker isn't exclusive to being a number 10. Ergo, having better points and kicking stats doesn't make him a better 10 than a 10 who doesn't kick, they should be seen as different roles.

Imho, Farrell had a bigger impact on his team than Sexton did. Farrell was consistent and controlled a game better this year I felt, and we saw an attacking side to england that we hadn't seen before. He clearly learnt a lot from Sexton in Australia.

On his day Sexton is by far the better player, but this year I felt eh was off his lofty standards.

 

[Big Ewis]

I see what you're saying about Farrell, but I don't think he's led his team better than Sexton though. It's not because England are much better on attack this year compared to last year that it's down to Farrell's conducting. He's been playing the same style, although he's improved. It's the change in the makeup of the England backline that's allowed a lot more activity and impact on games I believe, not so much Farrell the initiator of that.

Like I said I like Farrell and I like what he brings to the field but Sexton is just more mature in his game at this point and I don't think England attacking better can be used as an argument within a Farrell vs Sexton discussion. Sexton, aside from his other qualities, leads a much more complex set of schemes on attack in this Ireland squad, a more demanding role which he fulfills; I don't think if anything one could argue against Sexton in Farrell's favor in that department.

 

[goodNumber10]

I see what you're saying about Farrell, but I don't think he's led his team better than Sexton though. It's not because England are much better on attack this year compared to last year that it's down to Farrell's conducting. He's been playing the same style, although he's improved. It's the change in the makeup of the England backline that's allowed a lot more activity and impact on games I believe, not so much Farrell the initiator of that.

Like I said I like Farrell and I like what he brings to the field but Sexton is just more mature in his game at this point and I don't think England attacking better can be used as an argument within a Farrell vs Sexton discussion. Sexton, aside from his other qualities, leads a much more complex set of schemes on attack in this Ireland squad, a more demanding role which he fulfills; I don't think if anything one could argue against Sexton in Farrell's favor in that department.

I agree the backline improvement is the sum of it's parts and not down to one man, but we saw a lot more from farrel because of this - he made more line breaks this 6 Nations than he has in his whole international career as far as i'm aware. His one out passing was excellent, and his delayed and masked passing was top draw and easily equal to Sexton.

His tactical kicking was exceptional, he moved his team to the right areas at the right time - he absolutely drove the England team in the game against Ireland in a way that sexton only really did against Wales.

They play different systems in attack and fill different roles, but put it this way, i think with Farrell in the Ireland team and Sexton in the England team we'd have seen similar results.

Also lets not forget the lads only 22, he started playing international rugby at 20, he's needed to settle - how long did it take sexton to settle? (not that that has any bearing on the point)

 

[Feicarsinn]

Those stats are inflated by the italy game and the fact that being a goal kicker isn't exclusive to being a number 10. Ergo, having better points and kicking stats doesn't make him a better 10 than a 10 who doesn't kick, they should be seen as different roles.

Imho, Farrell had a bigger impact on his team than Sexton did. Farrell was consistent and controlled a game better this year I felt, and we saw an attacking side to england that we hadn't seen before. He clearly learnt a lot from Sexton in Australia.

On his day Sexton is by far the better player, but this year I felt eh was off his lofty standards.

Didn't England also score a rake load of points against Italy? As to the impact argument, Sexton was stellar against the Welsh and score two tries in Paris. I'd say he was out best back of the tournament.

Farrell did have a very good tournament too though, make no mistake. He looked an improved player, but you do wonder how much of it is down to the improved form of Danny Care and having a kicking/distributing 12 outside of him.

 

[Peat]

Those stats are inflated by the italy game and the fact that being a goal kicker isn't exclusive to being a number 10. Ergo, having better points and kicking stats doesn't make him a better 10 than a 10 who doesn't kick, they should be seen as different roles.

Imho, Farrell had a bigger impact on his team than Sexton did. Farrell was consistent and controlled a game better this year I felt, and we saw an attacking side to england that we hadn't seen before. He clearly learnt a lot from Sexton in Australia.

On his day Sexton is by far the better player, but this year I felt eh was off his lofty standards.

While those opening two sentences are completely right, we can ignore them, as Farrell was the only 10 near his standards and he was also a main goalkicker who had a chance to inflate his stats against Italy - 13 more minutes to be pedantic. One way of looking at Sexton's points haul vs Italy is that without his two tries and the conversion he added for one of them, Ireland would have lost the Six Nations. Or if Farrell had managed to get two tries against Italy and if we'd avoided the interception given while chasing the total, we'd have won.

I'd agree that Farrell had an improved tournament and I'd agree that Sexton wasn't consistently at his best. But I don't feel that Farrell was sufficiently good to be rated above a man with four critical tries. That contribution, for me, is very difficult to beat. It's not like the rest of his game was particularly shabby either really.

 

[McTallshort]

you're just bitter because he turned down the Tigers

Yes I am!