Second Test: Australia vs. British and Irish Lions (29/06/13)

[McTallshort]

Regards selection next week we really have to find someone who will put Genia under more pressure the bloke wasnt even at his best tonight and he still looked 2 paces ahead of the Lions cover who almost seemed scared to tackle him, we also need to get some more big ball carriers hitting the midfield as we made zero gain lines breaks oh and we need to sort out the bloody lineout.

Right so we need a world class Scrum half to pin down Genia, Jamie Roberts and a line out guru.....Steve Borthwick anyone?

 

[j'nuh]

Regards selection next week we really have to find someone who will put Genia under more pressure the bloke wasnt even at his best tonight and he still looked 2 paces ahead of the Lions cover who almost seemed scared to tackle him, we also need to get some more big ball carriers hitting the midfield as we made zero gain lines breaks oh and we need to sort out the bloody lineout.

Right so we need a world class Scrum half to pin down Genia, Jamie Roberts and a line out guru.....Steve Borthwick anyone?

Don't think it's the jumpers/lifters struggling. Croft/Parling/POC/Evans are some of the best in the NH and it hasn't worked much for any of them. The trouble seems to be with the throwing. If this was at the start of the tour, I'd be suggesting to take Webber...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

[...]
IMO:
O'Brien < Lydiate
Faletau < Heaslip
Murray < Youngs
Tuilagi < Davies
[...]

These are the changes I'd make, and for much of the same reasons as well.
It's not that the players named have performed particularly badly, it's just we need a change in personnel/game style.
My bench would be:

16. Hibbard
17. Vunipola (presuming Corbs is fit/starting)
18. Cole
19. Evans
20. any-of-the-backrowers (they all offer something different, and I'd be happy with any of them there)
21. Youngs
22. Farrell
23. Cuthbert (think he's most likely to offer real impact from the bench from the wings/fullbacks available).

.....Steve Borthwick anyone?

Don't. Even. Joke.

 

[McTallshort]

Don't think it's the jumpers/lifters struggling. Croft/Parling/POC/Evans are some of the best in the NH and it hasn't worked much for any of them. The trouble seems to be with the throwing. If this was at the start of the tour, I'd be suggesting to take Webber...

I disagree, Rory Best aside the throwing from Hibbard and Youngs always seems straight and high but often no one is jumping or there is confusion between the lifters. I think the hookers are taking too much flak for this even whne Best had his "mare" the jumpers were not moving or making any effort to mix it up.

 

[SelimNiai]

Regards selection next week we really have to find someone who will put Genia under more pressure the bloke wasnt even at his best tonight and he still looked 2 paces ahead of the Lions cover who almost seemed scared to tackle him, we also need to get some more big ball carriers hitting the midfield as we made zero gain lines breaks oh and we need to sort out the bloody lineout.

Right so we need a world class Scrum half to pin down Genia, Jamie Roberts and a line out guru.....Steve Borthwick anyone?

Does such a thing exist?

 

[McTallshort]

OK then at least challenge him, or a backrow who will muller him a bit. He just was allowed to much time on the ball, someone should have scragged the little sod everytime he took the ball off the back of the ruck.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

To be fair if Lydiate (our best defending backrow) this week and Phillips (most physical 9) last week couldn't tame him we ain't got much chance.

 

[Peat]

Possession and tackle made stats make slightly alarming reading. Can be misleading at times, but not in this instance. If we throw this tour away, I will be furious.

Second row: AWJ had another excellent game. Worked his socks off. Wasn't at all impressed with Parling though. Didn't do what was needed at the lineout.

...

Davies made a few good carries, and mostly tackled well (but got caught out for the Aus try). I'd bring either Roberts or Tuilagi in next week, and I'm unsure which of Davies or BOD to retain at 13.

Little harsh to blame Parling - the Lions lineout failed to deliver quality possession last week and as the main difference between this week and last was the removal of Tom Croft, it was pretty much never going to change for the better. As it was I thought he put some pressure on the Wallaby lineout in disrupting the catch late and we won a lot of our lineout ball.

Really not sure whose idea it was to stop mauling after the ref gave them a final warning five minutes in though.

And as mentioned, difficult situation for Davies. He should have done better but most people wouldn't. That said, the day has not dawned when I pick Davies after BOD for a match of this magnitude if the form book does not demand it. Even then.


I want Faletau in. Heaslip has had two good games, but not good enough - there is a problem and he is not fixing it. I don't think we can afford two opensides either. The forwards need to get over that gainline. Really not sure what we should do about six.

 

[SelimNiai]

OK then at least challenge him, or a backrow who will muller him a bit. He just was allowed to much time on the ball, someone should have scragged the little sod everytime he took the ball off the back of the ruck.

I think on the whole we've given him too much respect, we've let him have that little bit of space and he's burned us. When teams face Wales they know that if they get at Phillips, physically or verbally he is likely to get frustrated/angry and get into trouble. We need to get in Genias face a bit more, bit of Aussie style sledging may help too, something to throw him off kilter slightly.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I think on the whole we've given him too much respect, we've let him have that little bit of space and he's burned us. When teams face Wales they know that if they get at Phillips, physically or verbally he is likely to get frustrated/angry and get into trouble. We need to get in Genias face a bit more, bit of Aussie style sledging may help too, something to throw him off kilter slightly.

Pity Hartley's out then?

 

[SelimNiai]

Pity Hartley's out then?

Its where a gobs***e hooker comes in handy. I miss Mark Regan sometimes

 

[dullonien]

Little harsh to blame Parling - the Lions lineout failed to deliver quality possession last week and as the main difference between this week and last was the removal of Tom Croft, it was pretty much never going to change for the better. As it was I thought he put some pressure on the Wallaby lineout in disrupting the catch late and we won a lot of our lineout ball.

Maybe. And to be fair to Parling he put in a lot of tackles, 14 by ESPN's count, second behind Vunipola. Evans is a good middle jumper though, and had a great game in that regard against the Rebels. Whilst he had been poor up until that match on tour, I think he could be a good option for the final test. His bulk would also help support the props scrum time.

Personally I wasn't that impressed with Lydiate today. He put in a decent shift, but wasn't up to his usual very high standards. ESPN has his tackle count at 11, missing 2 to boot. That's a good few below his usual. On top of that he gave away a blatant and unnecessary penalty early on. I also thought he was lucky to get away with that slight fumble late on, I thought that had gone forwards personally.

I'm also unsure what to do at 6. We've got plenty of options, but I don't know which one is our best one. I still like the idea of playing Warburton and Tipuric. I think Tipuric could be our best chance of reducing Genia's influence, because he's quick enough to get to him. I know he's faded a little this tour, but I think he could come in and play a blinder. Warburton and he could dominate the breakdown which could be another way of nullifying Genia: slow the Aus ball down and Genia's life becomes more difficult.

Chances are Warburton will be injured anyway, in which case a backrow of SOB-Tipuric-Faletau is a no brainer for me, unless Croft is deemed necessary for his presence in the lineout.

Pity Hartley's out then?

He could have also helped sort out our lineout woes. Wait, no, I hate the tw*t......

 

[Gentle Ben]

It was a so disappointing that WG + GR have failed to reward Ryan Grant with a game. Earlier in the tour the lions coaches declared that Mako can't scrum and therefore he needs to be managed into a game once the starters are tiring.
Grant has had an excellent season, all season long. He's a better scrummager that Mako, and a better tackler too. Mako has the edge over the whole front row when it comes to ball carrying.

Look at today's test. Mako conceded at least 2 penalties in the scrum and I seen him get away with it on 2 other occasions. He was out on his feet after 60 mins and still Grant isn't given the shout?

Grant's ommission reeks of short sightedness and favouritism by Rowntree.

If Scotland players aren't good enough, they don't deserve to be picked, but Grant IS good enough and it is favouritism which is keeping the best player out and ultimately costing the lions the opportunity.

 

[SelimNiai]

It was a so disappointing that WG + GR have failed to reward Ryan Grant with a game. Earlier in the tour the lions coaches declared that Mako can't scrum and therefore he needs to be managed into a game once the starters are tiring.
Grant has had an excellent season, all season long. He's a better scrummager that Mako, and a better tackler too. Mako has the edge over the whole front row when it comes to ball carrying.

Look at today's test. Mako conceded at least 2 penalties in the scrum and I seen him get away with it on 2 other occasions. He was out on his feet after 60 mins and still Grant isn't given the shout?

Grant's ommission reeks of short sightedness and favouritism by Rowntree.

If Scotland players aren't good enough, they don't deserve to be picked, but Grant IS good enough and it is favouritism which is keeping the best player out and ultimately costing the lions the opportunity.

Think if Corbisiero misses out then Grant has to start, as much as I like Big Mak and his all round game, his scrummaging shortfall makes him a weak point. And next week we can't afford a weak point anywhere on that pitch.

 

[psychic duck]

It was a so disappointing that WG + GR have failed to reward Ryan Grant with a game. Earlier in the tour the lions coaches declared that Mako can't scrum and therefore he needs to be managed into a game once the starters are tiring.
Grant has had an excellent season, all season long. He's a better scrummager that Mako, and a better tackler too. Mako has the edge over the whole front row when it comes to ball carrying.

Look at today's test. Mako conceded at least 2 penalties in the scrum and I seen him get away with it on 2 other occasions. He was out on his feet after 60 mins and still Grant isn't given the shout?

Grant's ommission reeks of short sightedness and favouritism by Rowntree.

If Scotland players aren't good enough, they don't deserve to be picked, but Grant IS good enough and it is favouritism which is keeping the best player out and ultimately costing the lions the opportunity.

Let's not forget that Vunipola was involved in as many good/dominant scrums as he was bad ones, it's probably a consistency issue which should improve as he gains experience over time. The Lions won 9 points from scrums by the way, to Australia's 6, so some reports of the scrum being totally crap are way off the mark imo. Hopefully Corbisiero will be fit again next week and the consistency will be sorted. Ryan Grant was poor in the Brumbies game, the management should have called up the experienced Sheridan or Paul James imo instead of him.

 

[McTallshort]

It was a so disappointing that WG + GR have failed to reward Ryan Grant with a game. Earlier in the tour the lions coaches declared that Mako can't scrum and therefore he needs to be managed into a game once the starters are tiring.
Grant has had an excellent season, all season long. He's a better scrummager that Mako, and a better tackler too. Mako has the edge over the whole front row when it comes to ball carrying.

Look at today's test. Mako conceded at least 2 penalties in the scrum and I seen him get away with it on 2 other occasions. He was out on his feet after 60 mins and still Grant isn't given the shout?

Grant's ommission reeks of short sightedness and favouritism by Rowntree.

If Scotland players aren't good enough, they don't deserve to be picked, but Grant IS good enough and it is favouritism which is keeping the best player out and ultimately costing the lions the opportunity.

Rubbish, Grant has had 2 games for the Lions and one of those was a stinker, Mako has played well everytime he has been on the field with only a few scrums letting him down. He showed alot of bottle today to get it things right, to say he is in because of favouritism is narrow minded

 

[Peat]

I like Ryan Grant. I think he's a good player. But he's not been in the best form this tour and putting him in for Vunipola would have weakened an already weak carrying pack. His presence in the starting team might have been a mistake, but bias? I don't think so, not when there were so many clear reasons for putting him in. I was surprised Grant didn't come on though. Plus, as PD notes, all this hand wringing about the scrum is sorely misplaced.

p.s. On the subject of Ben Youngs and delayed put-ins - I've lost count of the number of scrum-halves I've seen refuse to put the ball in if there's an early hit and their side is going backwards. It's a really common tactic. Sometimes refs don't like it, sometimes you get a free-kick for the other side pushing early. All this opprobrium for Ben Youngs doing what virtually every other scrum-half I've ever seen would do in that situation is mildly bizarre.

 

[SuperEagle]

The Lions lost this game because of their inability to break the gain line in attack. Neither the backs nor the forwards were able to provide go forward ball or get the offloads going. So, their "go forward" tactic was to put the ball up in the air. Unfortunately, the lineout was poor - especially at the back.

The attempt to defend for 20-25 mins without leaking any points was ambitious. The only time I remember a team achieving this at test level was France v Wales in 2011 RWC

JD had a good tour until today, but he was terrible in this match. No line breaks, kicked away good possession and what on earth was he doing for the Aussie try? 3-on-3 and he just let his man run past him. Awful.

Lydiate did what Lydiate does. Lots of tackles - but he offered nothing in attack and the back of the line out was very poor. He gave away a penalty in our own half by just being stupid. You can't do that at test level - as the scoreline proved.

That said, I don't think the Lions need to do too much more to win the next test. Sort out the lineout, bring back our line-breakers, give Sexton a safe "go to" option that doesn't involve kicking and I think we'll be fine.

The Aussies' attack plan seemed obvious to me and it was very effective. They go the same direction tight numerous times and then, very quickly spray it wide in the opposite direction. They got loads of line breaks by doing this today and they did it for Falau's 2nd try last week and for AAC's this week. I'm very surprised that the Lions didn't figure it out and prevent their numerous line breaks.

What do the Lions need to do?

1. Bring back Croft for Lydiate to provide go forward attack ball and organise the back of the line out.
2. Bring in Tuilagi for Davies to break the line, or at least to make defenders worry.
3. STOP getting narrow in defense. Get their heads up and LOOK to see where the Wallabies attackers are
4. Sexton and Halfpenny need to stop kicking everything and vary the game more
5. Use the rolling maul more.
6. Actually use turnover possession and spray it wide and get our wingers into the match.

Also, I thought the ref was lenient on the Lions today in some of his decisions.

 

[Groundhog]

Better side won. WG`s 'Valley Boy`s' junket is turning to sh*te somewhat, time to bring in Farrell, Croft, Cole, Manu, and Barrit! The Lions need some big country mentality to beat this weakest of the SH teams.

Sorry, I assumed from your signature that you would be too busy shoving objects "up your arse" for the duration of the match to darken this thread with your presence.

 

[SuperEagle]

How was Beale's game this week?

das

I thought Beale played really well. He looked sharp in attack and was always looking to run or bring payers in around him.

MOTM for me was Genia