South African Government To Seize Farms From White Farmers

Discussion in 'The Clubhouse Bar' started by Da Grappla, Mar 3, 2018.

  1. TRF_heineken

    TRF_heineken RIP #J9

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    I tend to agree with President Ramaphosa. Everybody is jumping on their high horses and causing panic. Why not wait to see what will happen. It's not like this is something that will be implemented in the next few days or even weeks. They are merely testing the waters to see if it's feasible...
     
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  3. Cruz_del_Sur

    Cruz_del_Sur Senior Member

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    Quick question to south africans: just read several times that Nene said

    "We will print more money and give it to the unemployed to end poverty in South Africa"

    Sources looked questionable at best so i am asking, is there any truth behind this?
    We have our disproportionate share of lunatics in office but this one could give them a run for their money.
     
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  4. Da Grappla

    Da Grappla Senior Member

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    By looking for reliable sources, I found what I just posted in the previous page about what he said on being "responsible" and such but no actual evidence of "printing money" out of thin air. I just refuse to believe it as they have the Zimbawean example at the other side of the border
     
  5. Da Grappla

    Da Grappla Senior Member

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    I won't praise their lack of commitment with Global Justice but I deeply understand them wanting you over there.
     
  6. Which Tyler

    Which Tyler Senior Member

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  7. TRF_heineken

    TRF_heineken RIP #J9

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    Nhlanhla Nene is one of the better minister we have, and I'm very happy that Ramaphosa put him back at Finance after the whole Nene-gate scandal where Nene refused to do underhanded things by order of Zuma.

    There is a lot of fake news in SA, so be careful of the sources.

    If you want more reliable news use the following sites:
    News24
    Daily Maverick
    EWN
    ENCA
    City Press

    Do not use ANN7!!!
     
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  8. Da Grappla

    Da Grappla Senior Member

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    Got it. Specially on what to avoid.
     
  9. Da Grappla

    Da Grappla Senior Member

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  10. DumbAmerican

    DumbAmerican Senior Member

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    Interesting to note that nationalizing and redistributing the land is the emotional and winning political issue, but not so much nationalizing the mining industry to redistribute the profits. At least the land issue is the one that makes the press here and I haven't heard about mass political movements regarding potential change in the mining sector.
     
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  11. TRF_heineken

    TRF_heineken RIP #J9

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    Because the mining sector is old news. It used to be the main talking point regarding Nationalization, but after the whole Gupta-gate scandal, those discussions have left the media field and political fields (probably because a lot of politicians would benefit from this plan).

    As for the reports of Anarchy, again, way OTT reports by media outlets looking for attention.

    There is still a very long way to go, and it's not that the land will be nationalized either, the ANC last week stated, that should the Constitution be amended, then the expropriation of land will be in the form of giving title deeds to the new owner.

    So basically the plan is to take away unused land and giving it to a new owner, but there are no transactions taking place, just the registration of transfer of property at the Deeds office.

    But what they are forgetting is that most of this land have mortgage bonds over them, and there are money to paid before the mortgage bond can be cancelled.
     
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  12. DumbAmerican

    DumbAmerican Senior Member

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    How many white farmers are there in South Africa? Millions? Tens of thousands? I'm curious how many black people in raw numbers would actually benefit from a confiscation plan that went exactly according to how the government said it would work. (I know that's not how it will go in reality. It's much more likely that we will be sending you food aid from Iowa than that confiscation would go according to plan.)
    Are they mostly family farms, or giant commercial enterprises with lots of employees?
    Are both types under threat?
    In the case of confiscation, do the people favoring confiscation want to reorganize the land? Or just replace the white people on top with black people?
     
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  13. TRF_heineken

    TRF_heineken RIP #J9

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    The thing is we don't know what the plan will be. And it's not confiscation, it's expropriation.

    If I would hazard a guess then I'd say that there are close to a million white farmers. But the issue of land isn't just about their land, and here lies the issue. Nearly 48% of the land is owned by the government. Some of that land is leased to farmers, and some of it is unused.

    Now the problem is that the Government and the EFF are trying to make it a race issue just like everything else, especially with the 2019 elections coming up. They don't tell their supporters that we have the land to help you, but we don't want to give it you. The Government is failing in not providing housing, but they have the land to provide housing. So now they are looking at the agriculture setting. How this will work is anyone's guess, because I still want to know because we have a law called the Alienation of Land Act. This Act states that agricultural land cannot be tranferred to more than one owner without the consent of the minister of agriculture. So basically a farm can only have one owner (whether it's a person/company/trust). So either the minister will have a lot more work to do in future or it will just not be feasible.

    The other issue the costs involved in the transfer of property. Conveyancers (specialist attorneys who attends to property transfers) have fees to be paid BEFORE the transfer is completed, and this includes the Mortgage Bond cancellation costs.

    It's all fine and dandy to talk up this big game, but to put a plan in motion and actually following it through is another thing.
     
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  14. DumbAmerican

    DumbAmerican Senior Member

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    Is there a difference I'm missing?

    It's harder to build an apple orchard than to upset an apple cart and grab what you can. Time preference and such. If the people won't vote for a good land use plan that's sustainable in the long term than your country is screwed.

    Thanks for answering. Sounds like they don't have any real plan to present at election time. I was curious. The press in the US is horrifically bad at explaining the internal politics of any country except maybe the UK. I had seen a couple articles on the subject, but I wasn't sure if I was missing some grand plan.
     
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  15. Da Grappla

    Da Grappla Senior Member

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    It's the whole media world who sucks at explaining something beyond the surface. I came here to ask just because a) I don't trust media in general and b) I don't trust Western media in particular...Particular accounts by men on the field beat every thing the average journalist could come up with.

    By the way, expropiation I think it's something you have to be compensated for and confiscation isn't
     
  16. TRF_heineken

    TRF_heineken RIP #J9

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    In a sense, yes. But Confiscation has an element of wrongdoing/illegal side to it, which isn't the case here.

    Most of the farmers have been farming there for over 10 years at least, some of these farms have been handed down by generations before them.

    The idea of the expropriation of land is to provide more land to the masses in order to improve agricultural sectors both domestically and internationally. But they forget that with the current plan of buying out land and giving it to previously disadvantaged communities, these new farmers have now idea about farming, and the financial implications when they have the farm. Most of them either lease the land back to the farmer they bought it from, or strike some sort of deal, or they keep the land and let it turn into a wasteland. Here in my area we had some of the biggest tobacco farms in the continent, and they were first targeted, if you go to that farm now, it's just desolate empty savanna, with no site of it ever being a productive farm.

    There's a lot more to this story than what the mainstream media shows around the world, and the problem is that most of what they are trying to explain to the wider audience is lost in translation.

    I think one of the biggest obstacles they will have is the actual amendment of the constitution. And my guess is that a lot of advocates will join the fray in objecting against the amendment when they represent relevant parties. The other issue will be the Attorney/legal sector who won't be in favour of this amendment, as it will again be an attempt to take away their form of income with regards to the registration process. And I know there's a lot of lawyers already busy making plans to stand against this plan should it go so far.
     
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  17. DumbAmerican

    DumbAmerican Senior Member

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  18. unrated

    unrated Senior Member

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    trump.png

    This has caused a huge debate in South Africa.
     
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  19. TRF_heineken

    TRF_heineken RIP #J9

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    Trump jumping the gun a bit there in that statement. But most of that is true.
     
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  20. DumbAmerican

    DumbAmerican Senior Member

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    If you care, the headlines I've seen here in the mainstream media are along the lines of . . .
    "The truth behind Trump's white supremacist claims."
    and
    "Trump causes outrage by tweeting white nationalist conspiracy theory."

    I don't watch tv news other than seeing clips online, but they seem to be treating the issue the same way. "Just stuff made up by racists. Nothing to see. Move along."

    Coverage of the reaction in South Africa seems to present a consensus of people there wanting the US to stay the **** out of the issue, which is to be expected.

    The essential right wing US blogger of the "Trump" movement has weighed in:
    http://www.unz.com/isteve/south-africa/
     
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  21. DumbAmerican

    DumbAmerican Senior Member

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    Here's a tv clip that's representative of our media's coverage.
     
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