Speed Training

[chinwaggler]

Hey, I play on the wing now, I think I'm 3rd fastest following our full back and scrum half/wing/center. I'm 5"10 and weigh 74kilos / 162lb. Anyway to the point, I want to increase my speed.

At the moment, I spend a large proportion of my time in the gym on my legs, do interval training when I have time (rarely unfortunately) and do plyo's. Does anyone know any specific exercises, drills etc. that are good for increasing running speed?

 

[O'Rothlain]

Hey, I play on the wing now, I think I'm 3rd fastest following our full back and scrum half/wing/center. I'm 5"10 and weigh 74kilos / 162lb. Anyway to the point, I want to increase my speed.

At the moment, I spend a large proportion of my time in the gym on my legs, do interval training when I have time (rarely unfortunately) and do plyo's. Does anyone know any specific exercises, drills etc. that are good for increasing running speed? [/b]

Chinwaggler, you are on the right course. There is an obvious physical difference between the body builds of the Olympic Sprinters and the Olympic Distance Runners. Sprinting excersize is very similar to weight training. Your body reacts to it the same. So, building your leg muscles is definitely a positve step. Also, you mentioned Plyometric exercises. These will help develop your quick twitch muscle fibers. So, do exercises like box jumps, and tiyre runs. Also do actual sprints: 10 meter, 20 meter, 50 meter, and 100 meter. Lastly, don't forget your core strenght. Everything hinges on your mid-section. If your core is not strong, your body will not be able to push itself like it needs to do in a sprint. All of these things combined should definitely boost your speed.

 

[DC]

Agility ladders my boy

you can look up specific excersizes im to lazy to explain all of them

Also do stuff like box jumps.. supposedly adrian peterson does box jumps with 80lb dumbells in each hand! Ridiculous, but unweighted are fine as well.

You can find most good plyometric excersizes online, also work your hamstrings via hamstring curl machine, or hamstring raises, and also work your quads with leg extension machines, both machines are excellent for increasing speed.

 

[chinwaggler]

Cool, good advice.

Thing is the gym I use is at my school... and it's not the best equipped one.. the only thing I can do on my legs are calf raises and squats on the smith machine (which are apparently not good for you).

I'm going to try and join a proper gym outside school though.

Also, it's too dark every night to go running!!!! :rahh: :rahh: :rahh:

 

[O'Rothlain]

Cool, good advice.

Thing is the gym I use is at my school... and it's not the best equipped one.. the only thing I can do on my legs are calf raises and squats on the smith machine (which are apparently not good for you).

I'm going to try and join a proper gym outside school though.

Also, it's too dark every night to go running!!!! :rahh: :rahh: :rahh: [/b]

Unless you have a coach that demands you do squats, I say stay away from them. Long term they will mess up your knees. Do a leg press instead (which, yeah, you'll have to join a proper gym to do) or be careful and do dumbell squats. Just be sure your knees do not go over (or past) your feet.

 

[chinwaggler]

Hmm, squats are my main form of leg exercise :S along with the plyo jumps. As long as they don't click every time I squat I'm fine .

Good news though.. our school gym is being upgraded and three leg weight machines are getting put in! sexy sexy. :toss:

 

[DC]

not to much a fan of squats myself hurts your back and knees and if you dont have proper form 100% its not that great

i donno i always feel slower after doing squats for awhile.

 

[chinwaggler]

not to much a fan of squats myself hurts your back and knees and if you dont have proper form 100% its not that great

i donno i always feel slower after doing squats for awhile.
[/b]

maybe cause you've just used them.

 

[chinwaggler]

by them, I meant your legs.

Also, since I started training again at college, I realised that most wingers seem to be really skinny and fast and agile.

Two things are on my mind.

The first: Is my weight/height right for a winger? I could afford to shed a few pounds but I'm not bothered really unless I need to or it would be super-beneficial.

The second: I'm not skinny, but I'm just as fast as other skinny wingers, have a very good side-step (in my opinion), but am not as agile as some skinniers. It seems that in professional rugby, you don't seem to get any skinny people, so I brush the skinnier wingers off'a my shoulder.

 

[DC]

by them, I meant your legs.

Also, since I started training again at college, I realised that most wingers seem to be really skinny and fast and agile.

Two things are on my mind.

The first: Is my weight/height right for a winger? I could afford to shed a few pounds but I'm not bothered really unless I need to or it would be super-beneficial.

The second: I'm not skinny, but I'm just as fast as other skinny wingers, have a very good side-step (in my opinion), but am not as agile as some skinniers. It seems that in professional rugby, you don't seem to get any skinny people, so I brush the skinnier wingers off'a my shoulder. [/b]

Yea your weight and height are fine, you weigh only 7 lbs more than me and im only 5 foot 7.

Don't worry about your body stats, if you wanted to you could clean bulk with pure muscle and be a physical beast, you may lose some speed but you could get that back i'd imagine. I would rather have some meat on me rather than be skinny. Look at Jonah Lomu, he wasn't exactly skinny and he was a animal on the wing!

 

[chinwaggler]

I'm only 7lbs heavier than a 5"7 scrummy?

I think I'm gonna bulk up until I see a bad decline in my speed as I'm fine at the mo' speed wise.

What sorta weight/height are wingers that you play with? (Bearing in mind I'm still 17)

 

[ballackahn]

good advice folks! i was looking for the same advice to build speed too.
was asked by my coach to play wing from inside center...

 

[DC]

I'm only 7lbs heavier than a 5"7 scrummy?

I think I'm gonna bulk up until I see a bad decline in my speed as I'm fine at the mo' speed wise.

What sorta weight/height are wingers that you play with? (Bearing in mind I'm still 17) [/b]

Yep (17 as well)

Wingers we play against are usually football (grid iron) guys who are receivers or running backs so they are usually pretty well put together guys. I'd say 5 10 to 6 foot 2 175 to 190 pounds tops. There are some smaller guys but most are on the bigger side because its a logical step from football to rugby for most guys!

if you are 5 10 and 162 i'd say look to go up to 170 to 175 and build that leg strength and speed! Not that your size isnt good at the moment however. Also work core, that will make you faster as well!

 

[Mean Machine]

Squats and other variations of the squat, when done correctly, will not cause long term damage to the knees. Squatting heavy is one of the best ways to increase fast twitch muscle fibers which are the types you need to increase your speed.

 

[O'Rothlain]

Squats and other variations of the squat, when done correctly, will not cause long term damage to the knees. Squatting heavy is one of the best ways to increase fast twitch muscle fibers which are the types you need to increase your speed.
[/b]

It's still not healthy for you knees. Yes, done properly is a great excersize, but not one I'd recomend because of the potential and actual damage to the knees. Over head presses are a great way to build upper body strength, but are horrible for your shoulders. People still do them...I just wouldn't recomend them. There are other ways to do this and save your joints. Think long term. You don't want to be crippled because of your teens and twenties when you have 60 more years after that, do you? Don't risk it.

 

[DC]

<div class='quotemain'> Squats and other variations of the squat, when done correctly, will not cause long term damage to the knees. Squatting heavy is one of the best ways to increase fast twitch muscle fibers which are the types you need to increase your speed.
[/b]

It's still not healthy for you knees. Yes, done properly is a great excersize, but not one I'd recomend because of the potential and actual damage to the knees. Over head presses are a great way to build upper body strength, but are horrible for your shoulders. People still do them...I just wouldn't recomend them. There are other ways to do this and save your joints. Think long term. You don't want to be crippled because of your teens and twenties when you have 60 more years after that, do you? Don't risk it.
[/b][/quote]

Yea but barely anyone has perfect squat form. It is so hard to acheive. Squating heavy doesn't work your fast twitch muscle fibres unless you are doing plyometric squats (which arent even reccomended with weight at all).

To increase fast twitch muscle power you have to do stuff fast. So plyometric excersizes like box jumps, squat jumps (no weight) etc are how you work those. Squatting heavy just makes your legs more powerful.

 

[O'Rothlain]

<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'> Squats and other variations of the squat, when done correctly, will not cause long term damage to the knees. Squatting heavy is one of the best ways to increase fast twitch muscle fibers which are the types you need to increase your speed.
[/b]

It's still not healthy for you knees. Yes, done properly is a great excersize, but not one I'd recomend because of the potential and actual damage to the knees. Over head presses are a great way to build upper body strength, but are horrible for your shoulders. People still do them...I just wouldn't recomend them. There are other ways to do this and save your joints. Think long term. You don't want to be crippled because of your teens and twenties when you have 60 more years after that, do you? Don't risk it.
[/b][/quote]

Yea but barely anyone has perfect squat form. It is so hard to acheive. Squating heavy doesn't work your fast twitch muscle fibres unless you are doing plyometric squats (which arent even reccomended with weight at all).

To increase fast twitch muscle power you have to do stuff fast. So plyometric excersizes like box jumps, squat jumps (no weight) etc are how you work those. Squatting heavy just makes your legs more powerful.
[/b][/quote]
You are 100% correct. :bravo: :cheers: :bana:

 

[Mean Machine]

Yea but barely anyone has perfect squat form. It is so hard to acheive. Squating heavy doesn't work your fast twitch muscle fibres unless you are doing plyometric squats (which arent even reccomended with weight at all).

To increase fast twitch muscle power you have to do stuff fast. So plyometric excersizes like box jumps, squat jumps (no weight) etc are how you work those. Squatting heavy just makes your legs more powerful.






Umm maybe you should do some research before you say something like that. Working up to a heavy ( and by heavy I mean 1 - 3 rep max) weight uses a majority of fast twitch muscle fibers. Doing high reps uses slow twitch.



The best type of squats is heavy box squats as it really helps to develope your strength in your hips. I do agree that the best way to get fast is to do sprints and plyometrics but the squat will help.



As far as injuries are concerned yeah there is the potential, but I mean come on you are a rugby player you should be used to that. Learn the proper form ( there are tons of resourses on the net for this) warm up properly and know your limits and you will reduce that risk by a lot.



I guess I defend the squat because on top of playing rugby I am a powerlifter/strongman also so I see a lot of value in the movement. I am a prop though so maybe I have no right to even be talking about speed training hahaha.

 

[chinwaggler]

I am a prop though so maybe I have no right to even be talking about speed training hahaha.
[/b]

lol, any advice appreciated.

My gym should be getting equipped on Wednesday so I can't wait , but then it's X-mas holidays the week after ... :|

 

[zoomdoo]

just to add a little quip - power = work / time = (force * distance) / time

225 pounds squatted 1 vertical foot in 1 second is NOT the same as 225 pounds squatted 1 vertical foot in 10 seconds.

Pure force is important, but in rugby, it's more important to apply that force quickly. And hence, to train your body to apply force quickly.

Also, squats incorporate more muscle groups than leg press (stabilizers and all that jazz) and force coordination of the whole body. From a theoretical standpoint, I think that's smarter.

I read an interview from V matfield ( i could try to find it if you guys want) where he talks about how he mostly just flat benches and free weight squats when in the weight room.