Spring Tour: South Africa v England -2nd Test. (16/06/2012 15:00GMT)

[kusta]

Personally I think Lambie should be played at 10 and not moved around at the sharks and for the springboks too, I think he has the potential to become the next Dan Carter and you can already see that with his flare and ability to take the line on and his partnership with Frans Steyn would just be magical, kinda like the one with Dan Carter and Nonu. But then again I don't think SA are looking for a Carter type of player(which is just stupid) just kicking possesion away everytime is not on considering how the laws favour the attacking side more.

But by Judging by what we saw last weekend I'm convinced we gonna get thumped big time in the 4 nations(or whatever its called) if we play the kicking game(Just look at 2010 and last year, we kicked all our possesion away and could not defend the counter attacks) even the bulls don't really kick that much now, they run more with ball in hand if you've watched their S15 games. I'm really not sold on this Kicking game employed by the boks and its gonna catch us out if we can't vary it

 

[racingmetrofan]

England Team:

England: 15 Ben Foden, 14 Chris Ashton, 13 Jonathan Joseph, 12 Manusamoa Tuilagi, 11 David Strettle, 10 Toby Flood, 9 Ben Youngs, 8 Ben Morgan, 7 Chris Robshaw (capt), 6 Tom Johnson, 5 Geoff Parling, 4 Mouritz Botha, 3 Dan Cole, 2 Dylan Hartley, 1 Joe Marler.
Replacements: 16 Lee Mears, 17 Alex Corbisiero, 18 Tom Palmer, 19 Phil Dowson, 20 Lee Dickson, 21 Owen Farrell, 22 Alex Goode.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Foden, Ashton, Joseph, Tuilagi, Strettle, Flood, Youngs, Marler, Hartley, Cole, Botha, Parling, Johnson, Robshaw, Morgan

So no passing by the poms backline this weekend?? Got it...

 

[racingmetrofan]

I'm liking the look of that team. Wouldn't have chosen Tulagi at 12, but it shows intent to make necessary changes and to experiment by Lancaster etc which is very good. Hopefully far more attacking flare than last time!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Not happy with Youngs, Dowson, Mears, Tuilagi at 12 and Botha, but oh well.
Should be a bit less kicky without Farrell, but Youngs' truely atrocious box kicks will make up for that.

Sent from my HTC Incredible S using Tapatalk 2

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

A bunch of things you might like to know:

1. The Springboks have won the last eight consecutive Tests against England. This is a new record for South Africa against England.
2. The last Test match at Coca-Cola Park was in 2009 when the Springboks lost the third Test against the British & Irish Lions in their biggest defeat at this venue (9-28).
3. This will be the 44th Test at this venue. South Africa’s record here is: P 43; W 30; L 11; D 2; Win% 70.
4. The biggest win by South Africa was against Argentina in 2008 (63-9). The Springboks have scored 140 tries and conceded 58 at Coca-Cola Park.
5. South Africa and England played only two Tests at this venue before. In 1972 England won 18-9 and in 1984 South Africa won 35-9.
6. The starting 15 boast a combined total of 470 Test caps â€" 168 amongst the forwards and 302 amongst the backs.
7. Alain Rolland of Ireland is the referee. In the 13 Springbok Tests he’s handled, South Africa won seven and lost six. Rolland’s 13 Tests are the most Tests involving the Springboks by any international referee.
8. Bryan Habana is South Africa’s most capped Springbok wing with 74 Tests and also most experienced player in the squad with 75 Test caps. He is the Springbok top try scorer with 40 career tries in Tests and all were scored as a wing. He also holds the Springbok record for most career tries in Tests against England â€" six. Bryan has played in nine Tests against England, together with Francois Steyn, the most of any player in this squad.
9. With Morné Steyn’s try in the first Test in Durban, he became South Africa’s top try scorer as a flyhalf with seven career tries. Morné needs two more Tests as flyhalf to equal Butch James’ record of most capped Springbok flyhalf with 37 appearances. This Test will be Morne’s 24th consecutive Test of which only one Test was not at flyhalf.
10. Bismarck du Plessis shares the Springbok record for most tries in Tests as a hooker of five with James Dalton and John Smit.
11. Pierre Spies is now South Africa’s most capped No 8 with 43 Tests in this position. Pierre holds the record for most Test tries as a No 8. â€" seven.
12. Jean de Villiers will become South Africa’s most capped Springbok centre with 59 caps in this position. Jean scored his 20th Test try for the Springboks last Saturday in Durban.
13. Francois Steyn is the only player that has played in all eight consecutive wins against England and, together with Bryan Habana, the only other player in the squad with nine Test caps against England.
14. Springbok career record holders at Coca-Cola Park are: Percy Montgomery â€" 86 points and 18 penalty goals; Chester Williams â€" eight tries; Butch James â€" 12 conversions; Joel Stransky and Jannie de Beer â€" two drop goals each.
15. Springbok Test match record holders at Coca-Cola Park are: Gavin Johnson â€" 28 points; Chester Williams and Jongi Nokwe â€" four tries each; Butch James â€" nine conversions; Percy Montgomery and Louis Koen â€" six penalty goals each; Joel Stransky and Jannie de Beer â€" two drop goals each.
16. The first successful penalty goal by South Africa in this Test will be the 800th Test penalty goal in Springbok history.
17. Bismarck and Jannie du Plessis will play together in their record 22nd Test as brothers.

Source: sarugby.co.za

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Interesting. How is Tuilagi's distribution and off-loads? We certainly didn't see anything of the sort in the 1st test but maybe a change in position will motivate him if he has the skills.

I can't see him get passed F Steyn but if the idea is to target M Steyn, Hougaard and Spies it might work though Hougie is usually fine defensively head-on (he does have a strange tendency to fall of tackles coming in from the side) and is tough for his size. TBF Spies and Steyn have also been 100% better defensively this year compared to other years. F Steyn just has to watch for Tuilagi and De Villiers is the right man for the job of looking out for the off-load.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Interesting stats, Eze.

That (the amount of games Rolland blew up and bad win ratio with him in charge) explains why I am not so keen on Rolland for this match. Particularly I think he was terrible in some of the games we plays vs Ireland.

I'm of the opinion the raping we received at the hands of Lawrence in the RWC still means we're 'owed' a few calls going our way.

Another funny one is that the 4 tries by Nokwe at the venue were all scored in that one game against Aus where we actually kept ball in hand and fed our wingers- shocking! Pity about Nokwe's run with injuries; I for one highly value outright pace in a winger.

 

[nickdnz]

Interesting stats, Eze.

That (the amount of games Rolland blew up and bad win ratio with him in charge) explains why I am not so keen on Rolland for this match. Particularly I think he was terrible in some of the games we plays vs Ireland.

I'm of the opinion the raping we received at the hands of Lawrence in the RWC still means we're 'owed' a few calls going our way.

Another funny one is that the 4 tries by Nokwe at the venue were all scored in that one game against Aus where we actually kept ball in hand and fed our wingers- shocking! Pity about Nokwe's run with injuries; I for one highly value outright pace in a winger.

Genuinely my favourite Springbok ever, am gutted that he's been injured and drop'd. Other than maybe Chavhanga, I don't think I've seen a quicker winger in South Africa.

I'm also a big fan of a very fast ball running winger. Great top speed and acceleration and being able to beat a man one on one if exaclty what I love. Rokocoko and Caucaunibuca in 2003 were the best examples.

 

[SomeOke]

Personally I think Lambie should be played at 10 and not moved around at the sharks and for the springboks too, I think he has the potential to become the next Dan Carter and you can already see that with his flare and ability to take the line on and his partnership with Frans Steyn would just be magical, kinda like the one with Dan Carter and Nonu. But then again I don't think SA are looking for a Carter type of player(which is just stupid) just kicking possesion away everytime is not on considering how the laws favour the attacking side more.

I do agree with you in some respects but since the emergence of Johan Goosen, Lambie might be forced to feature at 15 for a long time to come.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Genuinely my favourite Springbok ever, am gutted that he's been injured and drop'd. Other than maybe Chavhanga, I don't think I've seen a quicker winger in South Africa.

I'm also a big fan of a very fast ball running winger. Great top speed and acceleration and being able to beat a man one on one if exaclty what I love. Rokocoko and Caucaunibuca in 2003 were the best examples.

Caucau .... what can one say. If there ever was a player that needed to be in a position where he got some discipline.

I do agree with you in some respects but since the emergence of Johan Goosen, Lambie might be forced to feature at 15 for a long time to come.

Lambie should still have the inside track mind you, at least in my mind as he has shown himself a very cool character and Goosen, though undisputedly an amazing prospect, still has same way to go to prove himself SA's 1st choice flyhalf. That he'll get there sooner rather than later isn't a doubt for me. But both Lambie and Goosen first have to get past M Steyn which might be more difficult than it should be under Meyer. But I trust Meyer will do what's best and get there eventually even if I personally think he is perhaps over-conservative.
The good thing about Meyer's approach though is that he creates an environment of respect for the jersey and competition for places and you won't find him screwing with player's faith in themselves.

 

[mstar]

Team selection seems predictable, i thought Farrell be in danger from Flood. Its upto Flood to prove he is the best 10.
Disappointing we still have youngs again i think he is starting to be a liability and he looks a bit chubby to me and runs out of steam in the 2nd half.

 

[Patchey]

Team selection seems predictable, i thought Farrell be in danger from Flood. Its upto Flood to prove he is the best 10.
Disappointing we still have youngs again i think he is starting to be a liability and he looks a bit chubby to me and runs out of steam in the 2nd half.

Couldn't agree more. I hope that he drops to the mid-week team next week and Care comes in for the final Test.

 

[Nobblynick]

To get him back into the squad and earn his place back. You have to remember that Youngs has been decent for Leicester and Dickson did o.k for England. Neither has done much wrong when you compare them to Care. For the sake of team unity and being seen as reasonable Care could not be allowed to just walk straight back in given his past behaviour. He played well today and has been said I think the orignal plan was to see who went best out of him and Dickson and give one of them a bench spot. That appears to have gone out of the window when they removed Strettle to cover the first squad.

Surely that's a soft call? If he is your form player, then pick him. That's sport.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

4.50 are great odds for England but I can't see past SA extending their winning run against the old foe. 20K on SA.

We have a better record at Ellis Park than Kings Park (probably the altitude) and with our 1st game behind us I see a steady improvement throughout the year for us.

 

[Patchey]

Surely that's a soft call? If he is your form player, then pick him. That's sport.

I think a lot of the way Care has been treated is linked (still) to the fall out from the World Cup. Under normal circumstances he would have been rightly dropped from the EPS for the 6 Nations and given a strong message about future off field behavior. However the RFU/England management clearly want to show players and the public what will happen is players get involved in serious off-pitch incidents. Therefore not only was Care dropped but he is now having to battle his way back into the starting XV despite being the form English scum half both domestically and internationally.

There is of course also the issue that he had to play a full 80mins yesterday, perhaps if that hadn't happened Lancaster would have put him on the bench this weekend.

 

[mstar]

i agree Care is in-form compared to Youngs, Dickson. I am just annoyed Lancaster hasn't given Care a chance. Youngs is what i call a player who peaked to early and now can't find that form.

 

[Teh Mite]

No coincidence he's being mentored by Ellis.

 

[kusta]

Lambie should still have the inside track mind you, at least in my mind as he has shown himself a very cool character and Goosen, though undisputedly an amazing prospect, still has same way to go to prove himself SA's 1st choice flyhalf. That he'll get there sooner rather than later isn't a doubt for me. But both Lambie and Goosen first have to get past M Steyn which might be more difficult than it should be under Meyer.

Yeah still with a bit of nepotism there, we won't see some of the changes we need to see!

 

[Patchey]

i agree Care is in-form compared to Youngs, Dickson. I am just annoyed Lancaster hasn't given Care a chance. Youngs is what i call a player who peaked to early and now can't find that form.

Question is, will playing with Flood help? I know some people who think that Youngs will play a whole order of magnitude better with Flood at 10 simply because of their club combination.