Springboks vs Wallabies, 28 Aug 2010, Loftus Versfeld

[ranger]

ha ranger you make me laugh
firstly mckensie developed the genia-cooper partnership,yes he can take credit for o'connor but from what ive seen thats nothing to be proud of in fact having o'connor at fullback instead of AAC was a massive blunder on his part, higgenbotham hasnt played yet, pocock was always gonna be a wallaby no matter who the coach[in fact he should have been made one sooner],kurtly beale was tried at fullback by chris hickey not deans,matt tomua are you fuckn kidding?
and regardless every coach would select most of those players but its the improvements they make once their with the team that matters and to be honest most players are going backwards like lachie turner,genia,elsom,moore

None of those players had players had played for the Wallabies until Deans got the job. Thats a fact. You can attribute player development to and away from Super 14 coaches when it suits you sure, but guessing at who is responsible for a players growth is just that, a guess. Deans got these guys into the Wallabies environment and has managed to blood a whole new generation of players and establish some nice combinations at international level.

This whole "every coach would select these players its the improvements they make once their(sic) with the team that matters" bullshit is a bit of a laugh. If every coach would pick up those young talented players then why did he enter the job to find Dads army waiting for him, he made some bold and risky moves that have largely turned out for the best. Noone wanted Quade Cooper in the team when he took a chance on him, now hes one of the worlds pre-eminent flyhalves, although thats soley down to the Super 14 coaches according to you. Then the players that have improved such as Pocock have nothing to do with Deans right? so Deans putting his neck on the line and displacing one of the worlds best in George Smith to give him a chance is nothing?
Mate with claims and logic like this there is a reason there is a glowing red light under your name.

Also, when did i say he was appointed to build a team for the world cup? i just said that he has built a formidable team that will keep Australia in good stead for the foreseen future. You can read what you want in the papers but short of you being present when Deans was briefed you really have no idea of what was truly asked of him.

 

[squirrel]

he actually didnt find dads army waiting for him the had all retired after the world cup or as in lathams case getting injured in the super 14,he persisted with al baxter until a ref killed off his career in fact he didnt change much when he arrived, mortlock was still captain and he didnt have to make a hard call to dump because he got injured, the only player's he got rid of were waugh and tuquiri much to the abs relieve,
well when o'neill states that the wallabies need a winning culture to boost tv ratings and an 80% percent win record and to score a whole bunch of tries in the process you get a picture of what his targets were

 

[Sker]

Full stops and capital letters assists the prevention of premature blindness.

 

[squirrel]

you should here me talk, grammar nazis would go deaf

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Juan Smith probably won't play.

 

[squirrel]

real loss that is, i see brussow is under the knife again im abit worried he wont come back the same player

 

[squirrel]

big mistake not to have aplon though especially against aus who wont physically manhandle him

 

[Saffa]

big mistake not to have aplon though especially against aus who wont physically manhandle him

Also Habana should have a rest.....along with Smit and Matfield. This is pretty much a non-test for the Springboks and the perfect opportunity to try out some other combos - like a back three of Burger, Louw and Kankowski as well as putting Aplon on the wing. He had to pick Frans Steyn though so I guess Gio had to go.

 

[Shaggy]

and regardless you told a fib when you said he was appointed for building a team for the world cup, he was appointed to get the wallabies winning full stop, thats why o'neill targeted an 80% winning record

No, that was me - if that's not the case, why did Robbie say the followingprior to the match in Christchurch

Meanwhile, Robbie Deans has brushed aside the criticism targeted on him by saying that his main objective is to win nothing less than the World Cup. According to him, defeats such as 49-28 hammering in Melbourne will only help his team as it will build their character. The former Canterbury fullback and legendary Crusaders’ coach said, “Regardless of the outcome at the weekend, there's no doubt that this time will serve this group well. I can tell you that in 14 months, they'll be there. Whether I'm there or not is other people's decisions, it doesn't matter. I'm tasked with getting this group into the optimum state at that point.â€

Why did John O'Neill say that his job was safe until after the World Cup,regardless of the outcome of that match

 

[squirrel]

terminating his contract would cost alot and a year out from a world cup it is consideres a bit too late to make drastic changes, robbie's trying to divert criticism and o'neill had to lower the win rate to 75% still robbie is a long way off to meet that

 

[ridgerunnersp]

15. Frans Steyn 14. JP Pietersen 13. Jaque Fourie 12. Jean de Villiers 11. Bryan Habana 10. Morne Steyn

9. Francois Hougaard

8. Pierre Spies 7. Juan Smith 6. Schalk Burger 5. Victor Matfield 4. Flip van der Merwe 3. Jannie du Plessis 2. John Smit 1. Gurthro Steenkamp

Substitutes: 16. Chiliboy Ralepelle 17. CJ van der Linde 18. Danie Rossouw 19. Ryan Kankowski 20. Ricky Januarie 21. Butch James 22. Juan de Jongh

Aplon should be in for Habana. Against NZ he was one of the Boks better players, especially in the first half. Habana needs to get his head out of his ass. Sure they are not using him as well as they could, but there is something to be said for looking for work, which used to be one of his best attributes. Sorry, JdV but with Fourie back PdV should go with the club combo of Fourie and de Jongh. De Jongh was also one of the top 5 players for SA last week. As has been said, Spies needs a wake up call. Drop him, put kanko at 8. and then Louw at 6 with Smith on the bench. He showed his class by putting in one of the better performances even though he has played very little rugby in the last few months, but with an injury and the fact that the Boks need an out-and-out openside, the back row should be 6. Louw 7. Burger 8. Kanko with 19. Smith. I don't have a problem with Smit, but as a 30+ yo guy weighing 260+ lbs, hes no longer an 80 min player. That fact may have cost SA the game last week. Tragically PdV is stuck filling a quota (I know I know that's dangerous ground to tread but really there is no other reason for picking chiliboy) so you have a replacement that the management isn't comfortable using. Brink back Bismark who is one of if not the best hooker in the world. His carrying, defense, scrums, and lineout throwing are all top-notch. Honestly he's one of the big reasons that SA was so successful last year. Enough has been said about Januarie. Try some new blood instead of a fatty. James needs to show that he doesn't suck, but he is a world cup winner, so you can't argue there too much. And finally I'd start Lambie on the bench.

 

[Sam Owen]

Aplon carved up last week with some good half-breaks and tackled very strongly, cant remember him doing anything wrong so it's a shock to see him benched. Juan Smith played good also, returned with a good all-round game. Francis Louw maintained the standard that Smith set when he came on. Juan De Jong didnt really get too much oppertunities and thats probably due to the AB defence, actually apart from Aplon not many of the 'bok backs really fired. Habana worked harder than he had been, I can only remember 1 good run of his where he made some good metres. Bismark was a champion hooker last year and your right he did a lot of good things for the 'boks last year, if he's fit why he's not playing is beyond me..

 

[smiffymies]

considering also that Aplon stood the test physically against the all blacks, a team who could be considered as one of the strongest teams in that department, should mean that there is no reason for habana keeping his place. Habana literally made that last try scorable IMO

 

[User1245]

considering also that Aplon stood the test physically against the all blacks, a team who could be considered as one of the strongest teams in that department, should mean that there is no reason for habana keeping his place. Habana literally made that last try scorable IMO

Yep Habana has become a liability on defence recently, not reading the situation adequately.
Yes we have been getting caught on the overlap often this season, but he makes matters worse by shooting up to catch man & ball to try stop it. Instead he should use drift defence, ushering the players to the touchline & forcing them to cut in. For gods sake back his pace if they decide to run it at him.

 

[*Axe*]

TBH, I though Habana was overrated anyway. He is obviously a tremendous athlete, but i never felt that he was special. Great kick chaser, can finsh off moves etc. I kind felt like there must be more creative talent in SA.
He is a bit like Doug Howlett i guess...
Dont get me wrong these guys are good, maybe overrated may be the wrong word to use, i felt players like Habana and Howlett could have done more

 

[Shaggy]

TBH, I though Habana was overrated anyway. He is obviously a tremendous athlete, but i never felt that he was special. Great kick chaser, can finsh off moves etc. I kind felt like there must be more creative talent in SA.
He is a bit like Doug Howlett i guess...
Dont get me wrong these guys are good, maybe overrated may be the wrong word to use, i felt players like Habana and Howlett could have done more

What method do you use to rate these guys? Habana is close to being SA highest try scorer in their History (he might already be, i'm not sure), Doug Howlett is still the All Blacks top try scorer of all time ... i would suggest for wingers, the number of tries they score is a pretty good method of rating them ...

 

[*Axe*]

What method do you use to rate these guys? Habana is close to being SA highest try scorer in their History (he might already be, i'm not sure), Doug Howlett is still the All Blacks top try scorer of all time ... i would suggest for wingers, the number of tries they score is a pretty good method of rating them ...

Yeah it probably came out wrong. I know what you mean about them being wingers.

But think about guys (legends) like Kirwan and Campese. They didn so much more. In more recent times - guys like Lomu.

More than just being the overlap. It is no coincidence that when the players i have just mentioned were at their peak, so were their teams

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Habana is a liability in defence, when you watch him he often darts out of the line trying to get the intercept. Good if he gets it, but when he doesn't it just leaves a big hole in the defence. It's a shame because he's a more than capable tackler.


Also, scoring tries isn't everything. Tom Varndell has scored a truck load of tries just by standing on the wing and having everyone else do the work, then he just dots it down. The equivalent of a goal hanger in scoolboy football, he gets the points, but in reality anyone who can catch a ball can.

 

[Shaggy]

Yeah it probably came out wrong. I know what you mean about them being wingers.

But think about guys (legends) like Kirwan and Campese. They didn so much more. In more recent times - guys like Lomu.

More than just being the overlap. It is no coincidence that when the players i have just mentioned were at their peak, so were their teams

Yep, i hear ya ... Habana might be passed his used by date, it's hard to make that call sometimes ... I remember a similar debate when Jeff Wilson was starting and Kirwan was ending ...

... anyway, this threads about the Boks and the Wallabies, and here I am babbling on about All Blacks (sorry Guys)

I think both teams have picked close to the best sides they could... should be a great game

 

[*Axe*]

Yep, i hear ya ... Habana might be passed his used by date, it's hard to make that call sometimes ... I remember a similar debate when Jeff Wilson was starting and Kirwan was ending ...

... anyway, this threads about the Boks and the Wallabies, and here I am babbling on about All Blacks (sorry Guys)

I think both teams have picked close to the best sides they could... should be a great game

yeah sorry I helped you get off topic.

I reckon Aplon should feel vaery hard done by.

The pressure on Quade Cooper must be immense. I get the feeling he will have a shocker and go to league. I really hope he does't, but his preparation for the test cant have been good.

I also think there was plenty there (agaisnt the ABs) for the Sprinkboks to say they are on the up, lookout Aussie.