Squads for the Internationals

[TRF Mr Fish]

Who do you think will be in the squads for the international matches that take place part way through the season? There's still a while to go, but that makes it so much more interesting

All Blacks (30 man squad?)

* = new cap

Hooker: Mealamu, Hore, Elliot
Prop: Crockett, Woodcock, Franks, Franks
Lock: Whitelock, Boric, Williams, Hoeata
Loose Forward: McCaw, Read, Messam, Thomson, Vito

Halfback: Ellis, Weepu, Smith*
First Five: Cruden, Carter
Centre: Smith, Nonu, Kahui, Williams
Outside Backs: Dagg, Smith, Jane, Barrett*, Gear

I think we'll see some more new caps come the Tri Nations/EOYT. Guys like Retalick, Afeaki, Eaton, Cane, Todd, Braid, Shields, Kerr-Barlow, Leonard, Nanai-Williams, Wulf etc. could easily be pushing for spaces. Ali Williams better pull himself together soon.

 

[dullonien]

Wales. Not sure what size squad will be taken to Aus, but I'll select a 35 man squad:

Props: Gethin Jenkins, Adam Jones, Ryan Bevington, Paul James, Rhodri Jones.
Hookers: Matthew Rees, Ken Owens, Richard Hibbard (looks like Bennett will be injured).
Locks: Alun-Wyn Jones, Luke Charteris, Ian Evans, Bradley Davies.
Loose forwards: Dan Lydiate, Sam Warburton, Toby Faletau, Ryan Jones, Justin Tipuric, Aaron Shingler.

Scrum halves: Mike Phillips, Lloyd Williams, Rhys Webb.
Outside halves: Rhys Priestland, James Hook, A.N.Other (Biggar, Tovey, Morgan?).
Centres: Jamie Roberts, Jon Davies, Ashley Beck, Scott Williams, Gavin Henson.
Outside backs: George North, Alex Cuthbert, Leigh Halfpenny, Liam Williams, Harry Robinson, Lee Byrne.

The squad looks pretty settled, especially the forwards. Turnbull and McCusker are a little unlucky to be missing out, but we've got so much depth at 6 and 7 at the moment, that there's simply no room for them. We need to think about developing another 8 at some stage, but Ryan Jones is good cover at the moment, and there's always Andy Powell if needs be.

In the backs, we're short a third fly-half. Considering that neither Tovey or Matthew Morgan are getting any gametime, it looks like Biggar will go, but I'd personally prefer to see someone else. I'm not sure if Stoddart is meant to be fit in time, but even if he is, it'll be a little early for him. Liam Williams is still playing well at the Scarlets, and I don't see any reason not to take Robinson again, unless Gatland would prefer to re-introduce Will Harries.

 

[Icemn]

Who do you think will be in the squads for the international matches that take place part way through the season? There's still a while to go, but that makes it so much more interesting

All Blacks (30 man squad?)

* = new cap

Hooker: Mealamu, Hore, Elliot
Prop: Crockett, Woodcock, Franks, Franks
Lock: Whitelock, Boric, Williams, Hoeata
Loose Forward: McCaw, Read, Messam, Thomson, Vito

Halfback: Ellis, Weepu, Smith*
First Five: Cruden, Carter
Centre: Smith, Nonu, Kahui, Williams
Outside Backs: Dagg, Smith, Jane, Barrett*, Gear

I think we'll see some more new caps come the Tri Nations/EOYT. Guys like Retalick, Afeaki, Eaton, Cane, Todd, Braid, Shields, Kerr-Barlow, Leonard, Nanai-Williams, Wulf etc. could easily be pushing for spaces. Ali Williams better pull himself together soon.

I would like to see Bateman in there... but who do you drop :?

is that Ben smith? outside backs?

why is barrett outsdie back :? why not 1/5 ???

miss seeing kaino there, prob single handedly won the WC for the AB

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

I would like to see Bateman in there... but who do you drop :?

is that Ben smith? outside backs?

why is barrett outsdie back :? why not 1/5 ???

miss seeing kaino there, prob single handedly won the WC for the AB

Yep, Ben Smith.

With Cruden and Carter almost certainly in, bar injuries, I expect they'll use Barrett as more of a utility player than anything else. I think he'll probably slot in at fullback from time to time.

 

[Draggs]

Back three of Hosea Gear/Cory Jane, Ben Smith, Israel Dagg... Not bad at all.
Don't think Henson will get selected, Dull. Injury and bench-warming right now.
Lee Byrne hasn't been great for Clermont, but who else is there? Harries and Prydie need more time, Stoddart won't be back, so I can see him going.

 

[dullonien]

Back three of Hosea Gear/Cory Jane, Ben Smith, Israel Dagg... Not bad at all.
Don't think Henson will get selected, Dull. Injury and bench-warming right now.
Lee Byrne hasn't been great for Clermont, but who else is there? Harries and Prydie need more time, Stoddart won't be back, so I can see him going.

Yeah, wasn't at all sure about Henson, but I wouldn't be surprised if Gatland selects him, even if he only plays against the BaaBaa's and the midweek team. All four of the other centres are betting options at the moment, but I'd still have Henson as 5th choice, no matter what Baber and Burnell think. We're still a little short of outside backs, so Byrne goes.

 

[William18]

Who do you think will be in the squads for the international matches that take place part way through the season? There's still a while to go, but that makes it so much more interesting

All Blacks (30 man squad?)

* = new cap

Hooker: Mealamu, Hore, Elliot
Prop: Crockett, Woodcock, Franks, Franks
Lock: Whitelock, Boric, Williams, Hoeata
Loose Forward: McCaw, Read, Messam, Thomson, Vito

Halfback: Ellis, Weepu, Smith*
First Five: Cruden, Carter
Centre: Smith, Nonu, Kahui, Williams
Outside Backs: Dagg, Smith, Jane, Barrett*, Gear

I think we'll see some more new caps come the Tri Nations/EOYT. Guys like Retalick, Afeaki, Eaton, Cane, Todd, Braid, Shields, Kerr-Barlow, Leonard, Nanai-Williams, Wulf etc. could easily be pushing for spaces. Ali Williams better pull himself together soon.

Just a few things:

- Weepu shouldn't be picked as a half back. He isn't playing there and clearly wants to play first five. If he isn't one of the top two first fives then he shouldn't make the squad.
- Same thing with Barrett. I don't think he should be fullback if he hasn't been playing there throughout the season. You have already got three other fullbacks in the squad so he isn't needed. I think the squad will only be 28 players maximum.
- Agree with the forwards. They pick themselves basically.
- Agree with Aaron Smith too. He's quickly becoming our best halfback.
- Cane, Todd, Kerr-Barlow, Shields etc need to show more before I think they're ready.

 

[Draggs]

One other change I might make, Dull, is the addition of another tighthead. Adam would be our only recognized tighthead, and while James can cover it, I would rather give Mitchell the chance (v Barbarians and Brumbies).

 

[dullonien]

One other change I might make, Dull, is the addition of another tighthead. Adam would be our only recognized tighthead, and while James can cover it, I would rather give Mitchell the chance (v Barbarians and Brumbies).

Not sure how I missed out Mitchell. Certainly have him in the squad, either instead of, or as well as Rhodri Jones. 6 props might be a little overkill though.

 

[Draggs]

Not sure how I missed out Mitchell. Certainly have him in the squad, either instead of, or as well as Rhodri Jones. 6 props might be a little overkill though.

Yeah, five would suffice (Bev and Mitchell start, James bench for Barbarians and Brumbies).
McCusker is out and Turnbull still returning from injury. As an aside, the Turks have quite a few backrowers, eh? Gilbert, McCusker, Turnbull, Shingler for 6. Turnbull, McCusker, Edwards, Thomas, Pugh at 7. Morgan, Murphy, McCusker at 8.

Hopefully Dale Ford will be ready for the start of the season. Seemed a handy little player with a big boot on him.

 

[lance2010]

Who do you think will be in the squads for the international matches that take place part way through the season? There's still a while to go, but that makes it so much more interesting

All Blacks (30 man squad?)

* = new cap

Hooker: Mealamu, Hore, Elliot
Prop: Crockett, Woodcock, Franks, Franks
Lock: Whitelock, Boric, Williams, Hoeata
Loose Forward: McCaw, Read, Messam, Thomson, Vito

Halfback: Ellis, Weepu, Smith*
First Five: Cruden, Carter
Centre: Smith, Nonu, Kahui, Williams
Outside Backs: Dagg, Smith, Jane, Barrett*, Gear

I think we'll see some more new caps come the Tri Nations/EOYT. Guys like Retalick, Afeaki, Eaton, Cane, Todd, Braid, Shields, Kerr-Barlow, Leonard, Nanai-Williams, Wulf etc. could easily be pushing for spaces. Ali Williams better pull himself together soon.

Props:Woodcock,Franks Brothers,Jamie Mackintosh
Hookers:Mealamu,Hore,Rutleadge
Locks:Whitelock,Williams,Boric,Brodie Retalick
Loose:Read,McCaw,Thomson,Vito,Nasi Manu

Halfbacks:Ellis,Aaron Smith,Weepu.....Weepu needs to pick his game up.
1st five:Carter,Cruden,Barrett
Midfield:Nonu,Smith,SBW,Kahui
Outside:Jane,Dagg,Gear,Ben Smith

 

[Larksea]

Props- I was hoping Toby Smith would push for selection - to me he seems like the Ideal Prop to pick now looking forward to 2015, He's young, big, very good at scrum time, can play both sides and one of the only props around that can rival the franks brothers around the field but he's been injured. Hope he comes back strong... potential Bolter: Ben May because he's actually looking in pretty good form and importantly he's spent time on both sides - key really for anyone looking to take Afoa's open spot. Looked really good against Woodcock recently. Crockett was blockbusting in 2011 but may have dropped off a bit this year - bit of pressure coming from MacIntosh & Ben May.

Franks Brothers, Woodcock, Crockett

Hookers:

Mealamu, Hore, Elliot - Picking Elliot simply because we Must start devaloping a young option because lets face it Hore, Mealamu, Flynn and Rutleadge could all be past their best come 2015

Locks

Whitelock, Boric, Willaims, Brodie Retalick - You could say he's a bolter but he's also the form lock in NZ so far so it wont be too much of a surprise. Another Bolter could be the return of Jason Eaton...?

Loosies

McCaw, Read, Vito, Messam, Thomson - the latter 4 are the clear form loosies in NZ and McCaw is a must have obviously and no 7 has grabbed their chance this year so far (Todd or Braid Brothers). if anyone deserves a recall here it's Messam, how he's been in and out of the squad at times I think was unfair and just downright silly. With any luck he will be rested more this super15 and be in better shape for test footy than he has been in previous seasons after playing every minute of every game for Super and NPC rugby duty for chiefs and Waikato...

9:

Elis, Aaron Smith, Kerr-barlow

Two new halfbacks would be a big call but how on earth could you pick Cowan, Mathewson (who looks ripe for a move overseas anyway) and Weepu from Current form? Cowan is a sure gonner and the coaches need to decide if they want to babysit Weepu for another 4 years? I think the fact we have genuine young talent at 9 & 10 with test potential will mean that Weepu wont get the same chances and leeway has he has got in the past. If Weepu is in your team he's a project - best 9 in the world when he's fit and in form but would all the attention he requires be better spent somewhere else??? Shame Leonard is currently out of the picture he was close to carrier best form before he was relegated back to the Physio table...

10, Carter, Cruden - not much debate here with slade's foot pointing the wrong way.

midfield - Smith, kahui, Nonu, SBW - pretty easy pick. Kahui to start at 11 unless he's needed at 13

outside backs - Dagg, Jane, Gear

Utility backs - Barrett, Ben Smith

injuries (and overseas contracts) to Kaino, Slade and Toeava and the non availability of Rokocoko & Sivivatu actually make selections easier.

Potential Bolters in the outside backs/Utility? Tim Nanai-Williams or Andre Taylor?

Most deserved All Black Recall - Ben Smith, he's hardly put a foot wrong in ~3 years and maybe would have been a better option than Toeava all along...? I think so. With him now in Carrier best form there really is no doubt, unless he is injured he will be a 2012 all black.

 

[lance2010]

All Blacks Starting XV and Reserves
I would go with the following....Pending on injuries and so forth.
1.Tony Woodcock
2.Keven Mealamu
3.Owen Franks
4.Sam Whitelock
5.Brodie Retalick
6.Kieran Read
7.Richie McCaw
8.Nasi Manu
9.Aaron Smith
10.Daniel Carter
11.Hosea Gear
12.Ma'a Nonu
13.Conrad Smith
14.Cory Jane
15.Israel Dagg

16.Jamie Mackintosh
17.Jason Rutleadge
18.Anthony Boric
19.Adam Thomson
20.Piri Weepu
21.Aaron Cruden
22.SBW or Richard Kahui

This 22 would destory any other team in the world. I have 3 bolters in the starting XV....Read can replace Kaino and get Nasi Manu in there now....why wait....
Andre Taylor or Ben Smith for back cover too maybe.

 

[Larksea]

some pretty bold selections, cant say I agree with much of it other than Starting Aaron Smith and Retalick, although the combination with Whitelock looks a bit green and needs experience

moving maybe the best #8 in the world to 6 when #8 has been a bit of a problem for NZ and there is a huge logjam of talent at 6. Though I agree that if the All Black selectors wanted a clean slate at #8 and selected a all by the book man for the back of the scrum then Nasi Manu would have to be top of the list

Gear is big and powerful and would score some crazy trys against most teams but if the world cup final was tomorrow. Honestly who would you start on the left wing? Gear or Kahui? I'm pretty sure anyone with good mind for the game would come to the conclusion that Kahui is clearly the best option. How can you take one of the shining lights of the AB backline in that WC and have him as just an also ran in the 30 man squad. 2011 proved that he should be one of the first names down in ink. And the fact the 11 spot was Kahui's in 2011 ahead of fit and available Gear, Rokocoko, sivivatu, Guildford, Ranger, Bens Smith or anyone else for that matter is for that simple reason. the selectors sat down and asked themselves that very qiestion and made the correct call. I dont understand why people are so keen to throw that out the window the next chance they get???

At the end of the day IMO Gear still has question marks over his ability against top oposition, Kahui does not, he's hardly put a foot wrong in test rugby - one of the rare players who even seem more at home playing test football than they do at lower levels.

The idea of Rutleadge finally becoming an all black is heart warming but surely now that dream is gone. The All Blacks can not start build towards 2015 with three hookers well into the thick if their 30's and of them Hore is clearly the best right now.

I hate andy Elis, but of all the halfbacks in NZ with test experience he's the only one with form good enough to demand All Black Selection. Even though i'd never pick him because I think the most critical part of his game - his passing and distrabution is fundamentally flawed and holds the all black backline back. Funny, on reunion they had a montage of Elis doing good stuff for the crusaders yet none of his highlights were of him actually passing the ball - yet you could make a highlight real of just Aaron Smith's brilliant passing and be swamped with material - something I think has lacked for the All Blacks with Cowan and Elis getting so much gametime since 2008.

Yes I hate him, but how could weepu be picked over him right now? Things not so good in Piriland - where ever the heck that is

 

[Draggs]

Jason Eaton has been in good form. I haven't seen much from Ali that would justify selection over Eaton.
Brodie Retallick is a good squad option, and Culum could see time during November.
Shame about Hardie, I thought he had been in great form until his injury. I like Adam Thomson but I don't know how well he will fit in with McCaw and Read. Messam and Vito have been very good so far, so some good options on the blindside.
Kahui on the wing, Ben Smith on the bench. SBW or Nonu is a tough call. Nonu is more effective, but will probably need a rest after the S15.

 

[Tadginator]

I personally find Ben smith a bit too White. I wouldn't have him in the nz squad.
In terms of backrow I have begun to like Thomson and he scores a lot of tries so I'd have him and messam in the squad
I'd also maybe give robbie Robinson a run in one of the matches. He's shown definite promise

 

[Larksea]

being a whitey is ok you just have to hide them a couple rows behind Messam during the Haka.

 

[sonnench]

I personally find Ben smith a bit too White. I wouldn't have him in the nz squad.
In terms of backrow I have begun to like Thomson and he scores a lot of tries so I'd have him and messam in the squad
I'd also maybe give robbie Robinson a run in one of the matches. He's shown definite promise

Maybe it's what you need.....

 

[admartian]

Who do you think will be in the squads for the international matches that take place part way through the season? There's still a while to go, but that makes it so much more interesting

All Blacks (30 man squad?)

* = new cap

Hooker: Mealamu, Hore, Elliot
Prop: Crockett, Woodcock, Franks, Franks
Lock: Whitelock, Boric, Williams, Hoeata
Loose Forward: McCaw, Read, Messam, Thomson, Vito

Halfback: Ellis, Weepu, Smith*
First Five: Cruden, Carter
Centre: Smith, Nonu, Kahui, Williams
Outside Backs: Dagg, Smith, Jane, Barrett*, Gear

I think we'll see some more new caps come the Tri Nations/EOYT. Guys like Retalick, Afeaki, Eaton, Cane, Todd, Braid, Shields, Kerr-Barlow, Leonard, Nanai-Williams, Wulf etc. could easily be pushing for spaces. Ali Williams better pull himself together soon.

I like this team for the most part apart from SBW. Would rather take a chance on Fruean or even an in form Tim Bateman.

Robbie Robinson has been pretty decent for the Chiefs as well.

I like teh Beaudn Barrett pick, but I'd also like Anscombe to get a look in (or be part of the wider training group). He's been one of the lone bright spots for the Blues this year - at least when he's played.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

I don't think we've seen enough of Anscombe yet.