Standard of Refereeing in Super Rugby 2013

[TRF_heineken]

Guys

This thread isn't meant to be a rant, but more to get clarity, and to hear if there are others who share my frustration regarding the refs in this year's tournament.

Lyndon Bray had to put out quite a few fires the last couple of weeks with people asking some serious questions regarding some calls made by the referees. Which just goes to show that I am not alone here.

first off, it has been for some years now, that the Australian referees have been sub-par to their NZ and SA counterparts, have been under the scope more than their SANZAR counterparts. This year was no exception, but with that said, some NZ and SA refs have also been terrible. Jason Jaftha comes to mind representing South Africa.

Now here is my frustration, it seems to me that when the new laws were applied, some of the older laws which are still applicable, becomes sort of non-applicable. For instance, the new breakdown laws are there to speed up the game, but the refs have completely forgotten to blow up the players for diving into the ruck. Nearly every team is guilty of this.

In the Reds vs Bulls game, there were to yellow cards given in the match, one to either team for dangerous tackles. The first yellow card was against the Reds very early in the game, and it was a very soft yellow card which I thought should've been just a penalty at worst. Then in the second half, The Bulls got a yellow for a dangerous tackle, and even though it looked very bad at realtime speed, the replays showed that the attacking player attempted to jump over the tackler, who was in a very low position before the clash happened. Surely this had some mitigating circumstances.

In the Brumbies vs Bulls match this last weekend, there were 2 things that made me very mad. first the try which the Brumbies scored. the scorer was tackled and held, he was off his feet, he then made a double movement, while he remained on his knees, and put the ball over the line. no referral to the TMO, just a straight forward given try. in the Stormers vs Crusaders game, there was a similar incident, but the referee didn't award the try, and you could clearly hear on the microphone that he said "on knee on the ground, no try". The other thing that got me mad in the Bulls game was that final penalty given against the Bulls, replays clearly showed that at least 2 Brumbies players weren't on their feet and tried to slow the ball down after the ruck had formed.

Now before you guys go and highlight the Bulls only, let me save you the trouble. I used my team as examples, as I think you guys would agree, that the team that you support, you watch closer than the other games, and are more critical regarding the game itself, even though it's a very subjective view.

I would be very interested to see your points of view regarding this matter, and also give examples of certain things that's is bugging you.

 

[The big Kangaroo]

I did not watch the Brumbies game but i thought the Tackles in the reds bulls were both fine I just think the refs are making a real stand on it.

 

[smartcooky]

Heineken

I think the refereeing this year has been better than last year. Certainly, the use of the TMO to confirm/overturn tries and to catch foul play has been a good initiative.

Having said that, I think you guys were robbed by a very poor decision at the end against the Brumbies.

At the ruck prior to the one at which the Bulls gave away the penalty that won the match, there were two clear and obvious material offences by the Brumbies, right in front of the referee, and he missed both of them.

Firstly, there were clear offsides by the Brumbies right side midfield. Despite what some people will tell you, the ball is NOT out of the ruck when the (acting) scrum-half has his hands on it; the ball is out when it is OUT, i.e. completely clear of bodies of players that form the ruck.

Secondly, a Brumbies player illegally came into the ruck from the side, and knocked a Bulls player over to the scrumhalf's left.

The combination of these two forced the Bulls scrumhalf to go right when he was clearly looking to go left, therefore these offences had a material effect on play.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Heineken

I think the refereeing this year has been better than last year. Certainly, the use of the TMO to confirm/overturn tries and to catch foul play has been a good initiative.

Having said that, I think you guys were robbed by a very poor decision at the end against the Brumbies.

At the ruck prior to the one at which the Bulls gave away the penalty that won the match, there were two clear and obvious material offences by the Brumbies, right in front of the referee, and he missed both of them.

Firstly, there were clear offsides by the Brumbies right side midfield. Despite what some people will tell you, the ball is NOT out of the ruck when the (acting) scrum-half has his hands on it; the ball is out when it is OUT, i.e. completely clear of bodies of players that form the ruck.

Secondly, a Brumbies player illegally came into the ruck from the side, and knocked a Bulls player over to the scrumhalf's left.

The combination of these two forced the Bulls scrumhalf to go right when he was clearly looking to go left, therefore these offences had a material effect on play.

Thanx Smartcooky.

I have to say, the extended rights of the TMO has certainly helped, but then as in the instance of the Brumbies try, where the scorer was on the ground and played the ball on the ground after being tackled, why didn't the Ref use the TMO? Or in that last penalty, wouldn't it have been wiser for the Ref to go to the TMO for that ruck? surely he had to be aware of the ramifications of giving the penalty to the Brumbies in field goal range with scores tied?? Doesn't the Captains of the teams have the right to talk to the ref and ask for the TMO to check?? Pierre Spies was livid with the call and the ref just asked him to back away...

 

[Gena_ZA]

I get the distinct feeling the refs are instructed to blow up certain aspects, one being the tip tackle, the ruling on Duanne Vermeulen was close to ludicrous in my opinion, almost looked that he threw the guy of for playing him/hanging on without the ball and that should have been the offense penalized. The ruck is still a shambles and the not rolling away when 1ton of heaped bodies lies on you should really be revisited, it is bordering is ridiculous now

They are also bleeding in a new line of referees, willing to give them time as long as they are consistent against both sides they officiating

 

[Larksea]

I think it's been ok in general.

situations like that Brumbies bulls game can happen it's a problem in rugby where you get situations where you could penalize both sides and refs have to judge timing or guy feeling or just try to favor the attacking team.

The Blues Tahs game was an absolute mess, the ref just made a total hash of the breakdowns and some incorrect calls at the scrum. I don't know if it cost the blues the game it just made the game a lottery.

highlanders vs. reds game had a lot of missed forward passes and knock on's which clearly favored the reds

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Thanx Smartcooky.

I have to say, the extended rights of the TMO has certainly helped, but then as in the instance of the Brumbies try, where the scorer was on the ground and played the ball on the ground after being tackled, why didn't the Ref use the TMO? Or in that last penalty, wouldn't it have been wiser for the Ref to go to the TMO for that ruck? surely he had to be aware of the ramifications of giving the penalty to the Brumbies in field goal range with scores tied?? Doesn't the Captains of the teams have the right to talk to the ref and ask for the TMO to check?? Pierre Spies was livid with the call and the ref just asked him to back away...

With both of these issues I think it was a case of the ref simply deciding they were ok, and not making the right call. He didn't see any reason to go upstairs because they were clear cut decisions for him - if the ref went upstairs for every penalty call the game would get very tedious very quickly.

 

[donmcdazzle]

The ref could penalise someone at almost every single ruck if he was going on the letter of the law, thankfully they only do so when it affects the game materially. You win some you lose some because there are a heap of 50/50 ruck and scrum calls. They'll even themselves out over the season.

 

[smartcooky]

I get the distinct feeling the refs are instructed to blow up certain aspects, one being the tip tackle, the ruling on Duanne Vermeulen was close to ludicrous in my opinion, almost looked that he threw the guy of for playing him/hanging on without the ball and that should have been the offense penalized. The ruck is still a shambles and the not rolling away when 1ton of heaped bodies lies on you should really be revisited, it is bordering is ridiculous now

This particular issue is one of player responsibility.

The official thinking here is that if the player realises that he is going to be penalised for not rolling away even if he is trapped, then he must learn not to fall on the wrong side of the tackle, i.e. he has to be aware of where he is falling and do everything he can to NOT fall in the opposing team's "space" at the tackle.

Too many times, I see players making the tackle, and ensuring that they get on the opponent's side of the ball carrier before going to ground there, where they become trapped.

 

[TRF_heineken]

With both of these issues I think it was a case of the ref simply deciding they were ok, and not making the right call. He didn't see any reason to go upstairs because they were clear cut decisions for him - if the ref went upstairs for every penalty call the game would get very tedious very quickly.

The ref isn't suppose to go upstairs for every penalty, that would mean he's inadequate as a referee. My frustration is that they ignore the important referrals and go for less important referrals upstairs. an illegal try being scored and a penalty at the death causing one team to lose when a draw was on the cards, and also important points on the log is more important. that's a maximum of 10 points difference in a match which shouldn't have been added to the team's total that got the better of the rulings.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

But why would the ref go upstairs for something he perceives to be obvious? I'm not saying he's correct in his rulings, but I think his use of the TMO is adequate.

 

[TRF_heineken]

But why would the ref go upstairs for something he perceives to be obvious? I'm not saying he's correct in his rulings, but I think his use of the TMO is adequate.

Yeah true, but they have given the TMO so much more to do, what damage would there have been to give them the additional right of informing the referee of an error. Like in Cricket whenever there is a wicket now, they automatically check to see if the Bowler didn't step over the line and bowled a no-ball.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Cricket's a bit different, because the nature of the game is that it's very stop start. That being said, at times I do agree that perhaps TMO's should be watching the whole time and be able to report things to the referee when they see fit.

 

[smartcooky]

Yeah true, but they have given the TMO so much more to do, what damage would there have been to give them the additional right of informing the referee of an error. Like in Cricket whenever there is a wicket now, they automatically check to see if the Bowler didn't step over the line and bowled a no-ball.

Yes, but that is relatively easy, because it always happens in the same place (or one of two places) and one one angle is all that it required.

In rugby, its more dynamic and you cannot be precisely sure when or where the incident took place (a rugby field is 8400 m2​) and which camera angle will show it best.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Yes, but that is relatively easy, because it always happens in the same place (or one of two places) and one one angle is all that it required.

In rugby, its more dynamic and you cannot be precisely sure when or where the incident took place (a rugby field is 8400 m2​) and which camera angle will show it best.

Yet every infringement mentioned is caught on camera...

 

[smartcooky]

Yet every infringement mentioned is caught on camera...

But the problem is that it may not be able to be found quickly

In the cricket example, the 3rd umpire knows exactly which camera to use, and exactly how far to wind the video stream back, become the request is even made.

 

[TRF_heineken]

But the problem is that it may not be able to be found quickly

In the cricket example, the 3rd umpire knows exactly which camera to use, and exactly how far to wind the video stream back, become the request is even made.

yeah yeah, I know... Utopia!!

Nonetheless, this is not a technology problem, it's a referee/human problem.

 

[Radian]

No really the rules are a total mess. How can it be that the ref can have 5 options on every perceived transgression which he can apply as he feels. This is really now turned into a rubbish game. I think I will now again watch mainly Premierleague soccer. The rules are simple and the referees get it right 99% of the time and I can understand their decisions.

 

[Gena_ZA]

Thanks for making your first post and telling us you are rather going to watch soccer, we wish you well

 

[lynam1104]

No really the rules are a total mess. How can it be that the ref can have 5 options on every perceived transgression which he can apply as he feels. This is really now turned into a rubbish game. I think I will now again watch mainly Premierleague soccer. The rules are simple and the referees get it right 99% of the time and I can understand their decisions.

Your presence will be sorely missed this one post contributed so much to the forum a salute you sir.