Super 15 Referee Discussion Thread

[goodNumber10]

it's ok mate i didn't take it that way

 

[smartcooky]

Just because the blow is dispersed by the open hand doesn't mean it can't be dangerous and devastating to the person receiving it.

Ask yourself why fending with an open hand is legal, but fending with a closed fist is not?

The fact is that striking with a fist, hand, elbow, or forearm has to be managed by the referee, and he has to decide how serious the offence is (potential for injury, concussion etc). The Weeks/DuPlessis incident is a textbook example of the difference between a slap and a punch and the referees response was exactly how I would have dealt with it, Red Card for the player delivering the punches with a closed fist to the head of the opponent, and Yellow Card for the player who started it off by Gibbslapping him. The Yellow Card for DuPlessis would have been as much for the act of intentionally provoking his opponent as for the slap itself.

As for those who aren't happy with Weeks getting such a long ban, I would like to suggest that if he had simply punched DuPlessis once in retaliation, he might only have been yellow carded, or even if red carded, the JO might have declared that punishment sufficient. But that is not what happened.

I counted six clear punches, all delivered with a closed fist and considerable force, and all to the head of DuPlessis. Weeks got a bad case of the "Red Mist". He lost the plot and was out of control. No place in the game for that, and he can count himself lucky he only got 3 weeks.

 

[goodNumber10]

Ask yourself why fending with an open hand is legal, but fending with a closed fist is not?

The fact is that striking with a fist, hand, elbow, or forearm has to be managed by the referee, and he has to decide how serious the offence is (potential for injury, concussion etc). The Weeks/DuPlessis incident is a textbook example of the difference between a slap and a punch and the referees response was exactly how I would have dealt with it, Red Card for the player delivering the punches with a closed fist to the head of the opponent, and Yellow Card for the player who started it off by Gibbslapping him. The Yellow Card for DuPlessis would have been as much for the act of intentionally provoking his opponent as for the slap itself.

As for those who aren't happy with Weeks getting such a long ban, I would like to suggest that if he had simply punched DuPlessis once in retaliation, he might only have been yellow carded, or even if red carded, the JO might have declared that punishment sufficient. But that is not what happened.

I counted six clear punches, all delivered with a closed fist and considerable force, and all to the head of DuPlessis. Weeks got a bad case of the "Red Mist". He lost the plot and was out of control. No place in the game for that, and he can count himself lucky he only got 3 weeks.

We're not talking about a front on fend in open play though, we're talking about striking a player from behind a swinging arm.

I fully understand the difference between a punch and a slap, but I'm not sure why you are all skirting around the issue, regardless of if they are the same or not hitting someone in the face open handed or closed fist is dangerous and can cause serious injury an open palm can cause just as much, if not worse, damage dependent on where it lands and the person delivering the blow.

Don't disagree with any of the analysis on the Du P vs weeks, the ref clearly stays slap to the back of the head, and not a strike to the face.

To boil it all down my question is just why is slapping to the face not a red card offence when it can be just as dangerous?

 

[TRF_heineken]

We're not talking about a front on fend in open play though, we're talking about striking a player from behind a swinging arm.

I fully understand the difference between a punch and a slap, but I'm not sure why you are all skirting around the issue, regardless of if they are the same or not hitting someone in the face open handed or closed fist is dangerous and can cause serious injury an open palm can cause just as much, if not worse, damage dependent on where it lands and the person delivering the blow.

Don't disagree with any of the analysis on the Du P vs weeks, the ref clearly stays slap to the back of the head, and not a strike to the face.

To boil it all down my question is just why is slapping to the face not a red card offence when it can be just as dangerous?

I think you are missing a point which myself and Smartcooky are trying to explain to you.

Yes, an openhanded slap COULD be just as dangerous as a fist. But a closed fisted punch is ALWAYS dangerous.

What Smartcooky was referencing to with open play hand-offs is that when a player fends off another player using his open hand, the possibility is always there that when that player is shoved off, he could fall awkwardly, and get injured. But it doesn't happen too often.

A closed fist, or elbow, such as Bismarck and Liam Messam's elbow fend, which has been correclty punished for, is automatically dangerous from the start, and should be punished. The open-handed fend is there to limit danger, and to protect the player with the ball. If he wasn't allowed to fend, then elbows/fists/shoulders/heads would be coming at his face, without protection. and those areas of the human anatomy are very hard, so they would cause the maximum amount of damage.

 

[goodNumber10]

I think you are missing a point which myself and Smartcooky are trying to explain to you.

Yes, an openhanded slap COULD be just as dangerous as a fist. But a closed fisted punch is ALWAYS dangerous.

What Smartcooky was referencing to with open play hand-offs is that when a player fends off another player using his open hand, the possibility is always there that when that player is shoved off, he could fall awkwardly, and get injured. But it doesn't happen too often.

A closed fist, or elbow, such as Bismarck and Liam Messam's elbow fend, which has been correclty punished for, is automatically dangerous from the start, and should be punished. The open-handed fend is there to limit danger, and to protect the player with the ball. If he wasn't allowed to fend, then elbows/fists/shoulders/heads would be coming at his face, without protection. and those areas of the human anatomy are very hard, so they would cause the maximum amount of damage.

I'm not missing anything mate.

lets leave it there as no one seems to want to address my point in the slightest.