Super 15 Referee Discussion Thread

[austingtir]

Me too.

At least 4 punches thrown over the space of about 8 seconds. Sustained and unanswered.
Could have stopped or tried to regain control over himself at any stage.

I'd been thinking he'd get 8 weeks minimum for that.

Jannie looked like he was about to fight and then he was like meh whatever I cant even feel this **** anyway.... They were like closed fist ***** slaps at worst and Jannie didnt even seem to notice half of them.


As usual I disagree its a not a terrible decision I reckon. If Jannie had done nothing to provoke it yeah but we all know he did provoke that!

 

[TRF_heineken]

Jannie looked like he was about to fight and then he was like meh whatever I cant even feel this **** anyway.... They were like closed fist ***** slaps at worst and Jannie didnt even seem to notice half of them.


As usual I disagree its a not a terrible decision I reckon. If Jannie had done nothing to provoke it yeah but we all know he did provoke that!

So just because Jannie didn't feel the shots, you don't have a problem with the weeks he got suspended. Just because Jannie has an iron chin?

Jannie did provoke him, yes, and Jannie got a yellow for that.

But weeks retaliated and punched him several times. Not once, but several times. That shows intent and no remorse. 3 weeks is not enough, it should at least have been 6.

But then again, the Rebels only have 2 games left and they won't qualify for the playoffs, so perhaps its what the citing commisioner took into consideration.

 

[austingtir]

So just because Jannie didn't feel the shots, you don't have a problem with the weeks he got suspended. Just because Jannie has an iron chin?

Jannie did provoke him, yes, and Jannie got a yellow for that.

But weeks retaliated and punched him several times. Not once, but several times. That shows intent and no remorse. 3 weeks is not enough, it should at least have been 6.

But then again, the Rebels only have 2 games left and they won't qualify for the playoffs, so perhaps its what the citing commisioner took into consideration.

This is nothing but PC bullcrap to me you should know that by now. Your not going to convince me either way. But continue if that makes you feel better....

I have even noticed commentators recently like Andrew Mehrtens just going WTF is this **** am I watching rugby or some other pussy ass code here.

Reds cars should be for the worst of the worst offences not this type of handbags type rubbish.

 

[TRF_heineken]

This is nothing but PC bullcrap to me you should know that by now. Your not going to convince me either way. But continue if that makes you feel better....

I have even noticed commentators recently like Andrew Mehrtens just going WTF is this **** am I watching rugby or some other pussy ass code here.

Reds cars should be for the worst of the worst offences not this type of handbags type rubbish.

Red Cards have always been given for punches!

James Dalton got one in the 1995 RWC vs. Canada.

It wasn't handbags, and it is not something that should be on the rugby field. It's foul play and has no positive contribution to the game itself. This sort of action is exactly what we don't want on the field, and it's not something a role model should do.

 

[smartcooky]

Punch with closed fist = red card
Head butt = red card
Eye gouge = red card
Bag snatch = red card
Stamp on head = red card

Every time and all day long.

 

[goodNumber10]

Punch with closed fist = red card
Head butt = red card
Eye gouge = red card
Bag snatch = red card
Stamp on head = red card

Every time and all day long.

Why is a punch considered red and an open hand slap isn't?

Surely striking the face is striking the face?

 

[TRF_heineken]

Why is a punch considered red and an open hand slap isn't?

Surely striking the face is striking the face?

have you ever been punched and slapped? There is a significant difference in the effect it has when meeting your face.

When you're slapped you just feel violated.

When you're punched you can get concussed/bruised/cut/knocked out.

A punch has an effect on a player while on the field. A punch could lead to that player not being able to play any further part in the game.

Whereas a slap will just **** him off

 

[goodNumber10]

have you ever been punched and slapped? There is a significant difference in the effect it has when meeting your face.

When you're slapped you just feel violated.

When you're punched you can get concussed/bruised/cut/knocked out.

A punch has an effect on a player while on the field. A punch could lead to that player not being able to play any further part in the game.

Whereas a slap will just **** him off

Surely depends on who is doing the slapping and the punching.

A slap from Jannie will possibly cause more damage than a punch from Le roux for example.

To be honest I'd rather be punched than slapped

 

[TRF_heineken]

Surely depends on who is doing the slapping and the punching.

A slap from Jannie will possibly cause more damage than a punch from Le roux for example.

To be honest I'd rather be punched than slapped

Dude, any punch from a Saffa, and you will feel it. Whether it's Jannie, Willie, Kolbe, or Spies...

Okay, maybe not Spies

 

[smartcooky]

Why is a punch considered red and an open hand slap isn't?

Surely striking the face is striking the face?

I'll tell you what. You slap my face as hard as you can with an open hand, and I'll punch your face with a closed fist as hard as I can. Perhaps you will then understand the difference

 

[gaston le gaff]

Dude, any punch from a Saffa, and you will feel it. Whether it's Jannie, Willie, Kolbe, or Spies...

Okay, maybe not Spies

is that the Spies we have signed at Montpellier if that is the case i may have to take him under my wing and toughen him up for the TOP 14!!!!

 

[goodNumber10]

I'll tell you what. You slap my face as hard as you can with an open hand, and I'll punch your face with a closed fist as hard as I can. Perhaps you will then understand the difference

yes very clever, but never said they were the same.

I understand the difference between a punch and a slap, but the fundamental point is that an open hand slap or strike that lands the right way can cause the exact same damage as a punch , broken noses, concussion all these things can be cause by a slap as much as a punch.

Especially when delivered by the 18 stone muscular monsters that play the game in this day and age.

Just because the blow is dispersed by the open hand doesn't mean it can't be dangerous and devastating to the person receiving it.

So ergo why does it not carry a red card sanction when it strikes the face?

 

[TRF_heineken]

yes very clever, but never said they were the same.

I understand the difference between a punch and a slap, but the fundamental point is that an open hand slap or strike that lands the right way can cause the exact same damage as a punch , broken noses, concussion all these things can be cause by a slap as much as a punch.

Especially when delivered by the 18 stone muscular monsters that play the game in this day and age.

Just because the blow is dispersed by the open hand doesn't mean it can't be dangerous and devastating to the person receiving it.

So ergo why does it not carry a red card sanction when it strikes the face?

I doubt that.

When you throw a closed fisted punch, your knuckles, which are basically bone, hits the flesh, which is very hard.

When you slap, your palm/wrist which is cushioned, hits first, which is a much softer surface than the knuckle.

A weak fist will still do more damage than a hard slap.

It's like comparing a rock with pillow...

 

[goodNumber10]

I doubt that.

When you throw a closed fisted punch, your knuckles, which are basically bone, hits the flesh, which is very hard.

When you slap, your palm/wrist which is cushioned, hits first, which is a much softer surface than the knuckle.

A weak fist will still do more damage than a hard slap.

It's like comparing a rock with pillow...

I've been punched a ton of times with very little consequence other than a bloody lip or such, the only time i've been knocked clean out by a blow ot the head only time I was hit open handed by an ex-professional boxer.

And regardless i never said they were the same.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I've been punched a ton of times with very little consequence other than a bloody lip or such, the only time i've been knocked clean out by a blow ot the head only time I was hit open handed by an ex-professional boxer.

And regardless i never said they were the same.

But you are trying to bring that point across:

the fundamental point is that an open hand slap or strike that lands the right way can cause the exact same damage as a punch , broken noses, concussion all these things can be cause by a slap as much as a punch.

And to use the example of an ex-pro boxer is not a fair comparison.

A boxer spent his life in getting his hands hard, and to land a strike in such a manner as to cause damage.

Jannie and Laurie are both RUGBY players, they are both props, and they have nearly the same build too. let them both slap you, and then let them both punch you, and see the outcome. There will be a remarkable difference.

 

[goodNumber10]

yes, because it can, and really you're arguing semantics.

My point is the force behind a slap when delivered by a powerful person can have devastating effects on someone - the fact they are both props and this actual incident is beside the point - it's general question not specific to that one incident.

Why isn't it a red card, as is striking the head with the fist or boot?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

is that the Spies we have signed at Montpellier if that is the case i may have to take him under my wing and toughen him up for the TOP 14!!!!

Hah! Yes, you might have to do that, Gaston. He has a reputation for going AWOL in tight games (which would be most Top14 games?).

I'd also think a punch will inevitably cause more damage than a slap from the same guy. I mean, a punch has more weight behind it than a swinging slap would and with a slap your wrist acts as a hinge and no matter how strong your wrist is that will take away some of the force. I am of course not an expert but I were given two option and had to choose between taking a slap or a punch from Mike Tyson I know which one I would go for. Both would probably snap my neck though.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Apart from Sonny Bill Williams, a proffessional boxer's striking shouldn't be used as a yardstick.

We are talking here about rugby players on the field, and there has been several referrals to the TMO about handbags, but how many of those handbags incidents got referred to the citing commisioner, or even got an on-field yellow/red card??

Punching on the other hand has always been treated with severity. And with the latest technology, those incidents always get picked up. This wasn't the first red card this season in the Super Rugby for a punch(es) being thrown. This was however the first yellow card given for a slap/handbags. The reason why Jannie got the yellow was because his strike hit the back of Laurie's head, where the spine is.

 

[goodNumber10]

Apart from Sonny Bill Williams, a proffessional boxer's striking shouldn't be used as a yardstick.

We are talking here about rugby players on the field, and there has been several referrals to the TMO about handbags, but how many of those handbags incidents got referred to the citing commisioner, or even got an on-field yellow/red card??

Punching on the other hand has always been treated with severity. And with the latest technology, those incidents always get picked up. This wasn't the first red card this season in the Super Rugby for a punch(es) being thrown. This was however the first yellow card given for a slap/handbags. The reason why Jannie got the yellow was because his strike hit the back of Laurie's head, where the spine is.

FFS I give up, you win.

- - - Updated - - -

Hah! Yes, you might have to do that, Gaston. He has a reputation for going AWOL in tight games (which would be most Top14 games?).

I'd also think a punch will inevitably cause more damage than a slap from the same guy. I mean, a punch has more weight behind it than a swinging slap would and with a slap your wrist acts as a hinge and no matter how strong your wrist is that will take away some of the force. I am of course not an expert but I were given two option and had to choose between taking a slap or a punch from Mike Tyson I know which one I would go for. Both would probably snap my neck though.

who said anything about it being from the same guy?

My point is used by a powerful person it can cause serious damage, as you have said at the end.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

who said anything about it being from the same guy?

My point is used by a powerful person it can cause serious damage, as you have said at the end.

I agree a slap can cause significant damage. Deafness, concussion, fractures etc. I didn't mean my post as an argument against yours. That was just the direction the discussion was heading in though I understand that's not the direction you meant for it to go and I just wanted to pipe in 'in genera' otherwise I'd have quoted you. I wouldn't even have had a problem had both players been red carded. I do have sympathy with the way the ref handled it though as I think something of a precedent has been established.