Super 18 in 2010 seems to be SANZAR main focus

[Steve-o]

http://www.super14.com/news/viewarticle.asp?id=13113
Well there were murmurs of including many different regions and/or countries but it seems a Super 18 in 2010 is in the pipeline, including teams from USA, China and Japan but none from Argentina. Not sure how it will work, hopefully we'll get more info on this.
Discuss..

 

[Wellycane]

It would be sad not to see an Argentine or Pacific Island team in an expanded Super Rugby competition, especially because it is one of their main sports. Having 25% of players coming from another country would be the only way Argentina and PI based-players would get in.

 

[sanzar]

I'm really not sold on the whole LA and Japan thing aye... Sure they may be potentially large markets, but I seriously don't see how you can just plonk a super side somewhere where the grass roots is at a bare minimum. Japan in that sense does have some chance, but I do find it hard to imagine the Japanese turning up in numbers to watch one watch a random team in a sport they've never really seen too much of outside of High School and University. LA is an even worse idea, with the city's population being so fickle that they can't sustain support for an NFL side! How the hell will rugby last if the NFL couldn't turn a profit?!

Seriously, the focus should be on Argentina and the PI nations. I personally think that the PI nations should compete individually in an expanded Super 20 (2 teams in Argentina) and then they should only ever compete at the international level as the joint "PI nations" in a SH 5 nations (kinda like the West Indies in cricket). I seriously don't see how that's not a better idea than starting a team in bloody LA...

 

[mike-o-l]

I fear that this Idea could bring down the quality of Super Rugby. 3 nations with very little history and player depth would end up fielding teams that just would be bottom dwellers. I understand the need for money but its not worth risking the quality of rugby. Losing week in, week out could also put off many fans in China, Japan and the USA.

If there going to put an extra teams then put the from established nations. If they want the Japanese, Chinese and Americans they maybe add a second tier with say 4 original SANZAR members and 2 or 3 teams from other countries. It would be competitive, teams would not be thrashed week in week out and if a team wins it, it could really help the sports image in the country.

 

[Steve-o]

Sustainability seems to be the biggest issue here. I personally don't see an American or Chinese franchise as a sustainable team, they will constantly need resources pumped in. What's the bet these teams will consist of foreigners.
This plan seems like a quick fix to me.

 

[Dmx#1]

I haven't read the article and can't be bothered so my opinion will be formed on whats been said by everyone else. This idea = Cack
Seriously all the money that would be spent on this should be saved and used for promotion for the upcoming WCR. We're more likely to attract viewers with our international games not the Super 14/18. What also ****** me off is the fact WCR games/highlights were taken off Youtube. It's free promotion! I thought we 're trying to attract more foreigners to watch Rugby, Youtube is an excellent way to promote rugby! It's not like anyone is going to package WCR games into DVDs! Promotion is the way to go not stupid ideas like this

 

[Prestwick]

Are all our Unions making a specific point of ignoring Argentina?

Is there some competition over who can ignore Argentina the most: the NH or the SH?!

A Japanese franchise, in a country where clubs are usually just sporting extensions of the big Japanese Conglomerates will be incredibly difficult to sell to the public. Unless SANZAR can get a tie-in with a major Japanese company like Toyota or one of the big Breweries then to be brutally honest, it'll fail.

Two teams in Argentina would be perfect. Their talent has to come from somewhere and its usually Argentina. If you can catch them before the scouts from the French clubs can get to them and put them in a Super *insert number here* competition against the likes of South Africa, Australia and New Zealand then they will definitely stay home in Argentina. To be honest, they make most of their money from product tie ins and endorsments anyway, what the Argentine players want is a competition big enough at home for them to play in. If Super Rugby comes to Argentina, the players will come. Simple as that.

 

[sanzar]

Yeah, it's annoying the crap out of me too to be honest... Argentina has seemed the obvious place to expand for a long time. Going to the already bloated sports market of the US, while cashed up, won't work and Japan has just no tribalism with any of their existing teams. Seriously, Argentina has a successful national team and at least some level of infrastructure so that seems to the place to expand.

 

[Steve-o]

Argentina really needs to lose the whole 'proud to be amateurs' mentality. Until they get proper structures in place, I don't blame SANZAR for not venturing there.
Until then SANZAR will have to follow the money, just like everyone else.

 

[Prestwick]

Their Union is still holding out, aren't they? Trying to pretend that they can continue on as they've always done. Someone really does need to shake them up a bit and tell them to get with the program.

 

[Steve-o]

Yip they are, but what they actually DO there is a mystery to me

 

[Dmx#1]

Screw them, If they wanna be like that then good for them. They'll be the ones missing out in the end.

 

[Prestwick]

Yip they are, but what they actually DO there is a mystery to me [/b]

The same we were all doing across the world during the Amateur era:

BBQ BABY! WOOO!

MUCHOS MUCHOS GAUCHOS BBQ BABY?! SIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!

 

[mickywicky]

No, but seriously, what do they stand to gain by not allowing professionalism? It's not like amateur players will be forced to go pro anyway.
Or is it that they can't be bothered...

 

[V99]

The Super 14 is already big enough as it is and a very tight competition.
Something they should work on is adding in quarter finals, because it sucks when teams miss out on the semis by one or two points.

 

[mickywicky]

The Super 14 is already big enough as it is and a very tight competition.
[/b]

Agreed.
As long as there is a Currie Cup and an Air New Zealand Cup, expanding it may be too much for the players. Also explains why our Austr'alien friends are really up for it, maybe.
Practicalities aside, I think a few countries could field single teams, only with players based at home (so as not to make it a national side): Namibia, Fiji, Samoa, Tonga, Japan and Argentina.
But it's hardly feasible...

 

[InsaneAsylum]

couldn't agree more... screw bringing in more teams. stick with the current 14 teams, and expand the finals series.

 

[Dmx#1]

couldn't agree more... screw bringing in more teams. stick with the current 14 teams, and expand the finals series. [/b]

Why award mediocrity? Thats just stupid really, then teams who dont desrerve to win might actually take it out.Even the most consistent teams can lose a one off game.

 

[InsaneAsylum]

<div class='quotemain'> couldn't agree more... screw bringing in more teams. stick with the current 14 teams, and expand the finals series. [/b]

Why award mediocrity? Thats just stupid really, then teams who dont desrerve to win might actually take it out.Even the most consistent teams can lose a one off game.
[/b][/quote]

take the stormers and blues seasons for example, they have a better than average win/loss ratio and it would seem logical to include them in a top 6 to play out the finals. 8 wins from 13 games is hardly mediocre.

in my opinion, if a team is good enough to win the tournament from 5th or 6th place, then they deserve it. in most sports, teams "lift" for finals games.

 

[j1mb0]

I personally don't understand why the US is included from a playing performance perspective, but when you bring sponsorship money into the picture it makes sense. The major thing that SANZAR is trying to get out of the new Super Rugby series is more money so it can try to retain SH players who head north for a bigger paycheck. From this point of view it does make sense to not have a team based in the Pacific Islands, because it doesn't make financial sense, and would be unsustainable.

I also don't understand why USA's included because of the time difference and travel. It would have to involve conferences, otherwise South Africa and the US would be at a major disadvantage with 24hr travel time to play a game. At least if China and Japan are involved the time zones are right for Australia and New Zealand to watch in prime time (not sure what the time would be in South Africa for a night game in Japan) which adds merit to their addition to the competition financially.