[Super Rugby 2018] South African Teams - Pre-Season

[TRF_heineken]

It's a new dawn, it's a new day!

So we're back to the 15-team Conference system. The system where the SA team have been the most successful in getting to the playoffs, and actually win the tournament.

I know it's still a long way off, but for my own sanity it's time to talk because I'm starting to get withdrawal symptoms. This time around we only have 4 SA teams competing, so let's have a look at what they have to offer:

Bulls:

So a new head coach in John Mitchell, and a lot of changes in personnel. Along with some administerial issues with regard to retrenchments, the Bulls certainly have their hands full in trying to rebuild their brand. Their new kit was evidence of that they are looking to focus on the old values of Blue Bull Rugby, in that they want to get the community involved. Their away kit being similar to the Mamelodi Sundowns soccer team who play their home games at Loftus Versfeld.

The training squad they picked was a majority of the Currie Cup team who under Mitchell started to show just what the can do with ball in hand. A very youthful group that oozes talent. A return of some stars from injury and stints in Japan, and this team looks rather dangerous.

Possible 23:

1. Pierre Schoeman
2. Adriaan Strauss*
3. Trevor Nyakane*
4. Lood De Jager*
5. RG Snyman
6. Roelof Smit*
7. Jacques Potgieter*
8. Boom Prinsloo

9. Rudy Paige*
10. Marnitz Boshoff*
11. Jamba Ulengo*
12. Handre Pollard*
13. Jesse Kriel*
14. Travis Ishmaiel
15. Warrick Gelant*

16. Edgar Marutlule
17. Lizo Gqoboka
18. JR Jenkinson
19. Jason Jenkins
20. Jannes Kirsten/Hanro Liebenberg
21. Ivan van Zyl/Embrose Papier
22. Manie Libbok
23. Burger Odendaal

* = Springbok capped players

Lions:

The Lions are this year without Johann Ackermann, after going to the finals the last 2 seasons. And the question everyone is asking, will Swys De Bruin be able to continue in Ackermann's place. De Bruin has been Ackermann's right hand man the past few seasons, and we saw in the Currie Cup that not much have changed in their playing style under De Bruin, but will he be able to weld (pun intended) them into another machine come game time? Victor Matfield has joined the coaching team, and that makes me think that they will have a big focus on line-outs and attacking from set phases.

Possible 23:

1. Jacques van Rooyen
2. Malcolm Marx*
3. Ruan Dreyer*
4. Franco Mostert*
5. Andries Ferreira
6. Jaco Kriel*
7. Kwagga Smith
8. Warren Whiteley*

9. Ross Cronje*
10. Elton Jantjies*
11. Courtnall Skosan*
12. Rohan Janse van Rensburg
13. Lionel Mapoe*
14. Ruan Combrink*
15. Andries Coetzee*

16. Robbie Coetzee
17. Sti Sithole
18. Jacobie Adriaanse
19. Marvin Orie
20. Cyle Brink
21. Dillon Smit
22. Shaun Reynolds
23. Sylvian Mahuza/Anthony Volmink

The Sharks:

Or as I'd like to call them now, the Du Preez Family with Friends. So Dad Robert is the head coach, and the twins Jean-Luc and Dan have both been capped by the bokke, and now they've managed to lure big brother Robert from the Stormers, to join them in Natal to be one big happy family again. Let's hope they can get this reunion to preform on the field, because dad is a no-nonsense type of guy, and his focus on discipline has been instrumental in getting the Sharks as a powerhouse they are becoming. Their pack is one I fear for 2018, with Thomas Du Toit and Coenie Oosthuizen becoming such strong scrummagers and both weighing over 120kg's they won't be easily pushed around, Perhaps it's time for Beast to take a step back.

Possible 23:

1. Thomas Du Toit
2. Franco Marais
3. Coenie Oosthuizen*
4. Ruan Botha
5. Stephan Lewies
6. Tera Mtembu
7. Jean-Luc Du Preez*
8. Dan Du Preez*

9. Louis Schreuder*
10. Robert Du Preez
11. Makazole Mapimpi
12. Andre Esterhuizen
13. Lukhanyo Am*
14. Sibusiso Nkosi
15. Curwin Bosch*

16. Akker van der Merwe
17. Tendai "Beast" Mtawarira
18. Ross Geldenhuys
19. Phillip van der Walt
20. Keegan Daniel
21. Michael Claasen
22. Garth April
23. Cobus van Wyk / Leolin Zas

The Stormers:

Something tells me that there is a storm brewing in the Cape, and it's not one that is bringing water. The have yet again managed to be in a crisis at fly half. Seriously?? How does this happen so often to the same team? Don't they learn from their mistakes? Anyways, All indications are there that the Stormers will again be a very competitive team as they always are, but I get the notion that they will again be a little short.

Possible 23:

1. Steven Kitshoff*
2. Bongi Mbonambi*
3. Frans Malherbe*
4. Eben Etzebeth*
5. Pieter-Steph Du Toit*
6. Cobus Wiese
7. Siya Kolisi
8. Juarno Augustus

9. Dewaldt Duvenhage
10. Damian Willemse
11. Dillyn Leyds*
12. Damian De Allende*
13. JJ Engelbrecht*
14. Sergeal Pietersen
15. SP Marais

16. Scarra Ntubeni*
17. JC Janse van Rensburg
18. Alistair Vermaak
19. JD Shickerling
20. Nizam Carr
21. Jano Vermaak
22. Joshua Stander/George Whitehead
23. Raymond Rhule/EW Viljoen

 

[unrated]

Lions:

their playing style under De Bruin, but will he be able to weld (pun intended) them into another machine come game time?



The Sharks:

Or as I'd like to call them now, the Du Preez Family with Friends. So Dad Robert is the head coach, and the twins Jean-Luc and Dan have both been capped by the bokke, and now they've managed to lure big brother Robert from the Stormers, to join them in Natal to be one big happy family again. Let's hope they can get this reunion to preform on the field, because dad is a no-nonsense type of guy, and his focus on discipline has been instrumental in getting the Sharks as a powerhouse they are becoming. Their pack is one I fear for 2018, with Thomas Du Toit and Coenie Oosthuizen becoming such strong scrummagers and both weighing over 120kg's they won't be easily pushed around, Perhaps it's time for Beast to take a step back.

Possible 23:

1. Thomas Du Toit
2. Franco Marais
3. Coenie Oosthuizen*
4. Ruan Botha
5. Stephan Lewies
6. Tera Mtembu
7. Jean-Luc Du Preez*
8. Dan Du Preez*

9. Louis Schreuder*
10. Robert Du Preez
11. Makazole Mapimpi
12. Andre Esterhuizen
13. Lukhanyo Am*
14. Sibusiso Nkosi
15. Curwin Bosch*

16. Akker van der Merwe
17. Tendai "Beast" Mtawarira
18. Ross Geldenhuys
19. Phillip van der Walt
20. Keegan Daniel
21. Michael Claasen
22. Garth April
23. Cobus van Wyk / Leolin Zas

Good pun! One only Afrikaans people will understand.

The Sharks lineup you pretty much got spot on. The only changes i would make if these lists represents the strongest match day squads is to replace Mtembu with van der Walt at 6. Unfortunately a few of these players named in the team selections will miss the start of the Super Rugby Season. In the case of Coenie probably the whole campaign (thanks Ireland for injuring one of our star players for the second year running). Jean-Luc is another one who will miss the first part of the campaign.

I genuinely believe the Sharks has one of the strongest squads (Competition wide) and injury permitting this year. It was refreshing to see such a good level of player retention. Another factor that pleases me is the bolstering of our already good coaching team with the one coach who took us the closest we have been to a Super Rugby ***le in Dick Muir as assistant. Just a reminder the Sharks were leading the Super Rugby final in 2007 on 80 minutes when Habana stole the game.

Im exited to see what Mitchell can do with traditionally South Africa's most conservative side. The Bulls are one of the financial powerhouses of SA rugby so if this guy can create a good team it will not only be good for sa rugby but also for Rassie and the Springboks. Unfortunately i think this year is probably going to be a developmental year. Mitchell has never been a fast results kind of guy such as when he was with the Lions.

IMO the Lions will start to fade this year without Ackerman.

The Stormers are a consistently good team but i just don't think they have the star power to win the competition. A playoff spot is a fair prediction.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Yeah look, the squads for Super Rugby haven't even been finalised yet, so I went with who was in the training group and who I know might make it to the main squad.

I do however think a few things might still happen the next month or so. Most teams have their first warm-up match this week, the Stormers had their first one this past weekend, and you can see that they didn't start any of their stars, and focused more on the youngsters and what they can do.

Speaking of youngsters, there are a lot of young guns in every team, and I wonder just how many of them will play? Juarno Augustus and Embrose Papier are 2 I think who was part of last year's U/19's who will get game time. Papier might play off the bench, but the Bulls only have 2 other scrumhalves now that Piet Van Zyl moved on. And both Paige and Van Zyl are nursing their injuries...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Good write up, @TRF_heineken. I am getting back into the swing of things slowly but surely myself.

My predictions:
SA:
1 Lions
2 Stormers / Sharks (I can't split it)
4 Bulls
5 Jaguares

I do feel the Sharks and Stormers could on their day turn over the Lions. Bulls could do for us as well. Actually, if the Bulls can get together in time and the Jaguares have finally sorted their discipline this conference is wide wide open IMO. I think there is still a bit of a step up to the NZ conference and one down to the Aussie one. Overall though things should be more competitive on the whole.

My expectations of a Stormers line-up for the first half of the season (please let Willemse keep fit!!!?);

1 S Kitshoff
2 B Mbonambi
3 W Louw (I have Malherbe needing to prove himself first and given time to bed back in)
4 ... I'm not sure how I like the locks beyond Etzebeth
5 PS du Toit
6 C Wiese (expecting a break out season from him)
7 S Kolisi
8 D Vermeulen (should be back by week 3, earlier if his Japanese Top League team bows out) (captain)
9 D Duvenhage
10 D Willemse
11 S Senatla
12 D de Allende
13 EW Viljoen (I'm sad about Huw Jones; pity he was injured during our SR season he was such a big part otherwise)
14 S Peterseon / R Rhule
15 D Leyds (I just think that is where he played his best rugby and looking at the amount of wingers we have signed I expect a struggle between Leyds and Marais for the #15 jersey)

16 D Muir / C Solomon / R Samuel (doesn't matter who if Mbonambi goes down we have a rookie rake...)
17 F Malherbe
18 JC Janse van Rensburg (our depth in quality at either side of the front row is very good indeed though)
19 JD Schickerling.. probably
20 S Notshe / J Augustus
21 J Vermaak
22 Jean Luc is quality back-up when fit. I expect Leyds to cover till then with Marais at the back..
23 SP Marais

All fit a bottom of the top half team. If we place 6th or higher I'd be happy. Don't think further than the 1st round of play-offs is a realistic hope. IF we can keep fit, especially key men like Mbonambi, Willemse and get Etzebeth back and IF we can fire on the day (here's looking at our centers..) we an conceivably upset any other side in this comp IMO.

 

[SomeOke]

No reason why all of the South African franchises shouldn't be good this year. That said they never all are for whatever reason, someone's bound to be bad.

Sharks should be strong in the same way they were last year, I don't see them backsliding.
Lions are probably due for a bad season, but there isn't much logic to that, as their players and structures are largely the same despite having a head coach.
Bulls can surely only go up, they have the talent to challenge for the ***le.

Stormers are very much going to be bust or break, Willemse now basically has the sole responsibility at 10 which hopefully he is up for but could go either way. Leyds and Marais were both fantastic last season, but it was both players best seasons ever, it will be up to them to continue that form, and not have peaked last year. History is full of players who had one great season, I don't have much hope for DDA but this is surely his last chance at redemption. As for Fleck I hope he sticks to his guns and realizes attacking rugby takes time to create and doesn't retreat into his old shell. Our pack at least should be fairly good.

So basically a lot of factors need to align for a successful season but if they do we could be very strong indeed. Sharks and Lions probably just need to continue doing what they were doing and the Bulls are the wild card.

@Stormers, I think JD Snickerling can easily step in to Eben's shoes..

Edit: Also worth nothing I believe Coenie Oosthuizen is out for the season, EW Viljoen is also out for a while and Jaco Kriel for at least a few weeks, can't think of any more injuries off hand.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

@SomeOke , I like Schickerling. I've always had it in mind though that he is more a similar beast to PS du Toit. But I suppose with the make-up of the rest of the pack we should be the dominant pack against all but the Crusaders and maybe the Lions and Sharks. Vermeulen and Kitshoff back.. In close I actually have us ahead of the Lions and Sharks in the pack albeit touch and go.

That said our backline has a few question marks hanging over it. I can see us go well outside in games we are already winning and maybe a bit of magic every now and again but I wouldn't rate our backline close to as highly as I rate our pack. Bulls have us there.

I don't rate the Bulls though. Think they will be bottom of the SA sides if only because the other three are all three more settled and better where it counts most in SA derbies; the forwards.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I forgot about Wilco.

It's a pity that most of the sites doesn't give us a full spectrum of the squads with injuries and players in contract with overseas clubs. So I went with what I knew. I didn't take considerations for injuries, and that is where a lot can happen. For example, the Lions have Howard Mnisi, but I haven't read a single article about his recovery or if he will play this year. Last time I saw him was during the Currie Cup where his whole are was still bandaged.

I think this year's derbies will be the toughest it has been in a long while.

There is no reason why all 4 our teams won't be able to fight for the playoffs. It's the first season in a long time where I feel all 4 the teams are on a similar level and have the talent and the staff to go a long way.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Ja, when I say I don't rate the Bulls its in relation to the other 3 SA sides but the margins aren't as big as my statement might imply. I still have the Bulls down as a decent team. Its just that at the ~7 odd wins I give them I can't see them push for a play off.

As early as it is I would be surprised if it doesn't end up being (for the play offs); Crusaders, Hurricanes, Lions, Chiefs, Waratahs, Highlanders, Sharks and Stormers in roughly that order. I don't think the Blues will do enough to get in simply because of the conference they are in while I can't see any of the Aus sides bar the 'Tahs (assuming they go top) make it in because I think they will struggle out of conference. Unless a 2nd Aussie side manages to take big points in-conference. Enough to oust the Stormers/Sharks/Highlanders for 8th place. Derbies though, tend to be a bit of a leveler.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Ja, when I say I don't rate the Bulls its in relation to the other 3 SA sides but the margins aren't as big as my statement might imply. I still have the Bulls down as a decent team. Its just that at the ~7 odd wins I give them I can't see them push for a play off.

As early as it is I would be surprised if it doesn't end up being (for the play offs); Crusaders, Hurricanes, Lions, Chiefs, Waratahs, Highlanders, Sharks and Stormers in roughly that order. I don't think the Blues will do enough to get in simply because of the conference they are in while I can't see any of the Aus sides bar the 'Tahs (assuming they go top) make it in because I think they will struggle out of conference. Unless a 2nd Aussie side manages to take big points in-conference. Enough to oust the Stormers/Sharks/Highlanders for 8th place. Derbies though, tend to be a bit of a leveler.

To be perfectly honest, I haven't even had a look at the overseas teams.

But coming back to our home teams. I think if the Bulls can emulate what they did when Mitchell took over over halfway through the Currie Cup last year, then they will surprize a few teams.

The question is how will they cope under pressure. They are a very young inexperienced side.

 

[SomeOke]

As I said Bulls could go either way, they should get better, it's hard to imagine them doing worse than last year, but the competition has gotten harder for SA sides in particular.
Now granted it was unfairly easier for us before, but the bottom line is we all lose 3 fixtures against the kings/sunwolves and gain 1 fixture against the Sunwolves, and lose 1 or 2 cheetahs fixtures.

Just mathematically someone is going to lose out, now hopefully that someone is the Jaguares (I want them to do well, but not at the expense of SA), but even so, at best 3 South Africa teams will make the playoffs.

The Bulls need three things to be real heavy-weights; 1) Their forward pack to improve across the board 2) A fit and firing Pollard 3) A fit and firing Gelant at 15, if they manage that they could take first place in the SA conference as far as I'm concerned.

 

[George Ford]

Nice one to get the early feelers started for 2018.

Is it coincident that the remaining 4 SA teams in this year's SR is last year's semi-final Currie Cup teams? I think not and had it not been for the Pro14 the Cheetahs would probably have been in there, but take nothing away from the Bulls who seized the opportunity.

Fact is, by all accounts, these 4 unions has been SA Rugby's traditional strongholds since inception of this competition; each one of them having contested a final at least once and although prior feats and achievements doesn't really amount to anything except for trailblazing, there is somewhat a nostalgically rough feeling of optimism (to put it bluntly) to the chances of our participating teams being perhaps that more tougher to beat this time round.

The Lions have largely retained the squad which made them a top team in this competition, and despite losing their main influential leader in Ackerman, I'm sure the rest of the guys will be up for it to prove their foundations are solid with the aim of perhaps lifting the trophy this time round. You can bet the Lions being a tough side to beat at the Highveld and they should at least make the play-offs comfortably. Anything less is regression, unfortunately.

The Stormers enters the competition as Currie Cup champs [yeah, I will mention it] and as a confidence booster this would only help make the transition that much smoother for the youngsters in the squad. Albeit most of them have already debuted in the competition and are surely just eager to kick on. A formidable side they are, perhaps little less so with Etzebeth most likely missing all their games leading up to the England tour, I only foresee them reaching the play-offs again, if not at all. Can't help but feel their constant search for consistency in the season adds to a bit of complacency at critical times in the season.

The Bulls go into this year's competition as an under-dog, but in my view they are more of an unknown/dark-horse considering the number of Springboks they can possibly field in their ranks. John Mitchell couldn't wait to being in charge of such a union again and his expertise could go a long way in realizing the potential this Bulls team has. The much anticipated return to form of Pollard and Roelof Smit in particular, it will only require a proper gameplan to execute, something Mitch is well known for. Their 1st task is to make Loftus a fortress again [jacuzzi's & what not].

The Sharks is a Du Preez & Co yes. Rob snr took the sting out of the opposition when he brought Rob jnr back under his wing [jokes]. They were the form team in the Currie Cup last year, having the continuity of carrying most of the same players from SR and they will certainly have learnt a lesson in not to take any opposition for granted even if you think you can afford it. They have the lowest number of Springboks in their ranks, but boast a forward orientated game which is a bit uncharacteristic for a Sharks outfit of old, yet have exciting outside backs to choose from. Wouldn't put it past them to make the play-offs at the 11th hour.

Here's to an injury free campaign to all our SR sides. The penultimate year leading up to a World Cup is always an exciting one.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

What I hope for from a SA POV is for us to find a 9 from somewhere out of nowhere.

9 ?
10 D Willemse (pfft to Pollard & Jantjies)
11 M Mapimpi
12 R JvRensburg
13 J Serfontein
14 R Combrinck
15 W Gellant

 

[TRF_heineken]

Wow!

I'm pleasantly surprized this morning after reading Sport24. John Mitchell has announced his 38-man Super Rugby Squad:

Outside Backs: Warrick Gelant, Duncan Matthews, Travis Ismaiel, Jamba Ulengo, Jade Stighling, Divan Rossouw

Midfielders: Burger Odendaal, JT Jackson, Francois Brummer, Jesse Kriel, Johnny Kotze

Flyhalves: Handre Pollard, Marnitz Boshoff, Manie Libbok

Halfbacks: Ivan van Zyl, Andre Warner, Embrose Papier

Loose forwards: Roelof Smit, Ruan Steenkamp, Hendre Stassen, Hanro Liebenberg, Jannes Kirsten, Nic de Jager, Tim Agaba

Locks: Jason Jenkins, Ruben van Heerden, RG Snyman, Lood de Jager, Aston Fortuin

Props: Pierre Schoeman, Conraad van Vuuren, Frans van Wyk, Matthys Basson, Lizo Gqoboka, Trevor Nyakane

Hookers: Jaco Visagie, Adriaan Strauss, Edgar Marutlulle


Rudy Paige has been omitted entirely, which basically confirms the speculation that he's moving, either to another franchise or up north...

Jacques Potgieter will take a sabbatical from Super Rugby. Which IMHO is a good thing, his injuries have been a real issue since joining the Bulls.

Nic De Jager and Burger Odendaal has been appointed as the co-captains.

 

[unrated]

Rudy Paige has been omitted entirely, which basically confirms the speculation that he's moving, either to another franchise or up north...

Jacques Potgieter will take a sabbatical from Super Rugby. Which IMHO is a good thing, his injuries have been a real issue since joining the Bulls.

The way i understood it was that Paige will still be a bulls contracted player. He just didn't make the squad yet with the coach preferring the other three candidates. Mitchell went on to say that its good to be able to call on the experience of Paige if the Bulls encounter injuries.

Potgieter is a lost cause. Even before the Bulls when he was at the Sharks he did not play a single game for us. Last time he had a proper season was at the ***le winning Waratahs.

 

[TRF_heineken]

The way i understood it was that Paige will still be a bulls contracted player. He just didn't make the squad yet with the coach preferring the other three candidates. Mitchell went on to say that its good to be able to call on the experience of Paige if the Bulls encounter injuries.

Potgieter is a lost cause. Even before the Bulls when he was at the Sharks he did not play a single game for us. Last time he had a proper season was at the ***le winning Waratahs.

I get that about Paige. But I think there's more to it than just that. You don't just leave out the only scrumhalf out of your squad that has played Super Rugby. The 3 left are all new to Super Rugby. Van Zyl featured in 2 games last year but for less than 10 minutes in each game.

I'm starting to wonder if Paige and Mitchell have a bit of a disagreement?

 

[SomeOke]

The thing is, even if Mitchell thinks Embrose is better than Paige, it doesn't make much sense that he drops his most experienced 9 that offers perhaps something different, over all THREE other young nines.
I think this is John saying - "No one is safe, I'm not going to have golden boys or favourites / I'm not going to play politics"
At the same time I do think Paige probably didn't suit the style JM wanted to play which I'd view as a positive step, Paige is more of an old school scrumhalf.

Nic de Jager puzzles me honestly, maybe he has great leadership qualities, but he's not really an amazing player from what I've seen.

 

[TRF_heineken]

The thing is, even if Mitchell thinks Embrose is better than Paige, it doesn't make much sense that he drops his most experienced 9 that offers perhaps something different, over all THREE other young nines.
I think this is John saying - "No one is safe, I'm not going to have golden boys or favourites / I'm not going to play politics"
At the same time I do think Paige probably didn't suit the style JM wanted to play which I'd view as a positive step, Paige is more of an old school scrumhalf.

True that. But I've been a big fan of Van Zyl the last 2 seasons. He reminds me a bit of Joost, a lanky scrumhalf with an eye to snipe. Papier is still very young, but the bit I've seen of him, could make a springbok...

Nic de Jager puzzles me honestly, maybe he has great leadership qualities, but he's not really an amazing player from what I've seen.

here's the thing, De Jager was played out of position by Nollis Marais, and he had to do things that wasn't in his natural game. Last year when Mitchell took over, Nic started to show what he offers. He's more of a defensive type of flanker, but is a very good carrier of the ball, and just like Pierre Schoeman, he has very good ball skills. As for leadership, he's a step up from Liebenberg, but it makes me think that Strauss won't be a regular starter.

 

[SomeOke]

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, and hey if the Lions can carry a mediocre player as a captain and be successful so can anyone .
Strauss not starting is a good thing I would say, he's lost his ball carrying skills which leaves him as basically just a set-piece hooker (and not a particularly good scrummager at that), I think you guys can do better.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, and hey if the Lions can carry a mediocre player as a captain and be successful so can anyone .
Strauss not starting is a good thing I would say, he's lost his ball carrying skills which leaves him as basically just a set-piece hooker (and not a particularly good scrummager at that), I think you guys can do better.

It's a pity Corniel Els didn't make the cut at Hooker for us. He was dynamite when he played for Tukkies in the Varsity Cup, he's already a much better hooker than Jaco Visagie.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Wow, big moves by Mitchell. Dropping Paige and then naming Odendaal and Nic de Jager captains. All three are big calls. One would have thought the leadership tussle was between Strauss, Pollard and Liebenberg.

What this tells me is Mitchell wants to move the ball. Good call IMO with the player base he has available. If I were Mitchell I'd ask who has the best pass from the base and that'd be that. We are carrying 9s in SA who can't clear a ball without taking 2 minutes to do so.

So if Odendaal and De Jager are the leadership group then that scuppers Pollard playing at 12? Good. Let him rather have an extended time back in position. The guy hasn't played any rugby for 2 years FFS. I saw Smit, Kirsten and Liebenberg as the loose trio going forward. Might Liebenberg get the chop? The thing is, and maybe this is me not having followed the Bulls well enough, but aren't all of Smit, Kirsten, De Jager and (to a lesser extent) Liebenberg all pretty similar types of players?