The Global Calendar after 2019 (rumours ATM)

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

SH is quite in favour of the lions actually.

 

[TheOvalBall]

the SH love seeing the British Lions in action.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

A 32 team league makes it very complicated trying to interface with the Eurocup.

the 4 teams who make it to the Semi finals with the next best 2 teams i guess.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Really? It's a big earner for them every 12 years but I'd be surprised if there's not an idea that could make them slightly less money every four later on in negotiations. They'll be long negotiations so I think they'll wait until the aftermath of an uncompetitive tour to do so.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Really? It's a big earner for them every 12 years but I'd be surprised if there's not an idea that could make them slightly less money every four later on in negotiations. They'll be long negotiations so I think they'll wait until the aftermath of an uncompetitive tour to do so.

They like it from a non financial point of view as well, the hosts genuinely like the lions tour as a whole thing.

 

[Peat]

I'll bite. What mild innovation is going to surpass the Lions as a cash cow?

Also, I've heard more or less zero SH people talk about how they want the Lions over. I think you're projecting massively here.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

They like it from a non financial point of view as well, the hosts genuinely like the lions tour as a whole thing.

I get that but I don't know how long it'll last. When New Zealand whitewash the Lions next year it'll be 6-0 in the professional era, 24 years since the Lions last beat them and 15-2 since the Lions won their only series against them, it's not competitive anymore. I know I'm in the minority in this regard but the professional game will cause the Lions to fail, it's going to get less and less competitive every tour outside of Australia and fans will lose interest. I hope next summer is the last time the Lions tour NZ and I'd predict that 2029 will be failing that. The game is outgrowing the tour.

Going to leave it it at that because I'm at best borderline on topic and really just having a whinge.

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They like it from a non financial point of view as well, the hosts genuinely like the lions tour as a whole thing.

I get that but I don't know how long it'll last. When New Zealand whitewash the Lions next year it'll be 6-0 in the professional era, 24 years since the Lions last beat them and 15-2 since the Lions won their only series against them, it's not competitive anymore. I know I'm in the minority in this regard but the professional game will cause the Lions to fail, it's going to get less and less competitive every tour outside of Australia and fans will lose interest. I hope next summer is the last time the Lions tour NZ and I'd predict that 2029 will be failing that. The game is outgrowing the tour.

Going to leave it it at that because I'm at best borderline on topic and really just having a whinge.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Can't see the SH views changing even if the lions get whitewashed 6-0 (which I doubt).

I think your views are prob misguiding you on this one.

 

[stus768]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/sep/14/rugby-union-global-season-northern-southern-hemisphere

Doesn't sound like any things been agreed and mentions the 6 nations being moved.

In regards to lions.

Very good for union profits

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10895220

http://www.rugby.com.au/news/2016/02/12/australian-rugby-records-$19-5m-profit-for-2013-calendar-year

Very good for local economy
https://tours.lionsrugby.com/news/look-back-at-2013/2015/12/17/

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Can't see the SH views changing even if the lions get whitewashed 6-0 (which I doubt).

I think your views are prob misguiding you on this one.

6-0 was including the '05 test. I wouldn't say I'm misguided, probably a bit premature. I'm confident the tour will die before you or I do. There just won't be room for it if the game continuous to grow both in the geographical sense and tactically like it is now.

 

[Peat]

The Kiwis whitewash everything sent their way as it is. I don't think they're going to wring their hands too much about the level of the opposition if the same thing happens to the Lions.

 

[saulan]

Can we get the two threads on this topic squished into one?

On the topic of the lions in the SH, of course they love having it, huge gate income and British tourists from all four of the nations instead of one spending their pounds which make you millionaires down here, why would our federations not like this? (By the way, I'm looking forward to the British and Irish Lions vs The Chiefs, should be a bit closer than that Wales game )

 

[die_mole]

I get that but I don't know how long it'll last. When New Zealand whitewash the Lions next year it'll be 6-0 in the professional era, 24 years since the Lions last beat them and 15-2 since the Lions won their only series against them, it's not competitive anymore. I know I'm in the minority in this regard but the professional game will cause the Lions to fail, it's going to get less and less competitive every tour outside of Australia and fans will lose interest. I hope next summer is the last time the Lions tour NZ and I'd predict that 2029 will be failing that. The game is outgrowing the tour.

Going to leave it it at that because I'm at best borderline on topic and really just having a whinge.

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I get that but I don't know how long it'll last. When New Zealand whitewash the Lions next year it'll be 6-0 in the professional era, 24 years since the Lions last beat them and 15-2 since the Lions won their only series against them, it's not competitive anymore. I know I'm in the minority in this regard but the professional game will cause the Lions to fail, it's going to get less and less competitive every tour outside of Australia and fans will lose interest. I hope next summer is the last time the Lions tour NZ and I'd predict that 2029 will be failing that. The game is outgrowing the tour.

Going to leave it it at that because I'm at best borderline on topic and really just having a whinge.

I think the whole idea of touring is going to take a hit with the professional model and just the globalization of the sports world. We can see every professional rugby player play no matter where they are from our homes, so it's not as enticing as it used to be. I love the idea of the Lions and of course the Baabaas but I just don't think they are going to last much longer. You can't ask players to play even more games in a year or to take time off from their international teams. Every Lions tour is a summer where the Home Country teams don't get their best players. So the Lions mean 25% less summer tours for those teams.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Ive gotten myself in deep here through barely coherent hungover ramblings! I'll try to give my point of you in a less outrageous manner here.

First of of all I understand the Lions is a cash cow and that the SH fans and the vast majority of British and Irish fans do, more so British fans I'd say about 5% of fans over here are like my and about another 30% on top of that could take it or leave it whereas it seems to be universally loved in Britain. The reason I don't like the tour is not because I think there's ways to make more money, but I'd love to see how much the tour makes considering it's main income here is probably merchandise(?) and it only comes around every 12 years in the SH. I don't like it because it disrupts our teams' World Cup cycle, forces players to play too many games in a critical part of the World Cup cycle which has really affected players careers, Sexton going straight from a Lions tour to the top 14 and being cricked about 50% of the time since and Cian Healy getting a bad injury and never really getting a sustained period of fitness since both spring to mind. I also don't like it because the individual nations whose players make up the test sides, so everyone but Scotland in recent times, would be better off on their own, I much prefer watching Ireland play anyway, it epitomises the view that the SH are better than us and there's shag all we can do about it other than teaming up every four years and it is all but impossible for the lions with six weeks to gel, in the pro era, could ever beat a good SH team so it is utterly pointless.

I think it's going to die for a few reasons, they're going to get less and less competitive which will result in less interest all around. Clubs are getting big enough to start complaining that it's **** for player welfare, players will be encouraged to reject their call up and once that happens it won't stop it has started with coaches too, again less interest all around. There'll be opportunities to make big bucks in Japan and, hopefully, the US in the next 20-30 years which means less need for the Lions cash cow. The quality of rugby is getting to a place where I think it can't get a whole lot better at its very best (read NZ) and while international sides can catch up the Lions can't, I think we're seeing that rugby is getting more competitive with England, France and Ireland picking up wins in the SH, it's not going to be so long before the gulf between the ABs and the rest is bridged and at any one moment the best 4-6 teams in the world could start beating each other. A real long shot too is the emergence of new power houses who could make the home nations more money in the next 20 years, there'll definitely be chances to form competitions like you get in the off season in soccer just with international rugby sides and those things fill out stadiums and attract travelling fans.

Depending on how fast this happens, and judging by clubs actions in recent years it'll be pretty soon, I give the Lions one more cycle of tours at most before people north and south start to question it and another cycle of tours to start dying it's slow death. My most conservative estimate would be the Lions surviving 40 more years with it being a shell of its former self for a large number of those years. The Lions are like bidets, nice in theory but no one needs them or really knows how to use them but because the French don't care about the Lions we can get rid of them!!

 

[gaston le gaff]

If that happens you guys will have nothing left to watch.!!!!

 

[TRF_heineken]

Can we get the two threads on this topic squished into one?

On the topic of the lions in the SH, of course they love having it, huge gate income and British tourists from all four of the nations instead of one spending their pounds which make you millionaires down here, why would our federations not like this? (By the way, I'm looking forward to the British and Irish Lions vs The Chiefs, should be a bit closer than that Wales game )

Done!

No point in having 2 threads of the same topic.

 

[shaunwilding89]

International Calender

So I am reading a lot ( mainly NH stuff) about proposed changes to the international Calander post 2019. There seems to be lots of debate and I can forsee lots of issues in the future. Thoughts anybody?????

 

[Immenso]

Already no June or Nov window in World Cup year. Now the year after World Cup there is no June window.

Obviously this won't be fair from a hemispheric point of view. Will be interesting how they resolve it. Either revenue share that window? Or alternate the hosting so that SH teams also host in that window?

As an aside this is very Tier -1. November in Apia etc is very steamy.

 

[smartcooky]

If the intention is to have Super Rugby, Top 14, Premiership and Pro 12 all ending in June, with the NH season starting again in October, I cant see why they don't just do the following

1. One Mid Year Test Window
Ditch the two existing June and Autumn windows, and replace them with a single, five week "Mid-Year Test" window in June/July/August. Some SH teams travel North, and some NH teams travel south.

2. Rugby Championship and NH Players Rest period
After the Mid Year Tests, the SH carry on into the Rugby Championship, the Pacific Nations Cup and the South American Rugby Championship, while the NH players go into their rest period prior to their next season start in October.

3. SH Player's Rest Period
After the Rugby Championship is finished, and 3rd Bledisloe Cup match is played in November, the SH players go into their rest period prior to their next season start in January Ferbuary

4. Rugby World Cup
In World Cup Year, the Mid Year tests are replaced with the RWC at the same time. The NH rest period is pushed back one week, as is the Rugby Championship (because the RWC takes six weeks not five)

5. The Lions Tour
Played as it is now, in the odd numbered year between RWC's, and in the same six week slot as the RWC. It would be the host team's Mid Year tests series. With England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales involved in the Lions Tour, it might be an opportunity for the non-hosting SANZAR Nations and the Pacific Teams to host or tour some of the NH Tier 2 teams, Romania, Georgia, Russia, Japan.

However, I object to International Rugby taking all the hits on this. The NH domestic season is unrealistically long. It needs shortening, either by reducing the number of teams involved, or by increasing the number of teams, but doing away with the home-away ties.

Whatever happens. Test Rugby MUST remain the pinnacle of the game.

 

[CocoPampas]

If the intention is to have Super Rugby, Top 14, Premiership and Pro 12 all ending in June, with the NH season starting again in October, I cant see why they don't just do the following

1. One Mid Year Test Window
Ditch the two existing June and Autumn windows, and replace them with a single, five week "Mid-Year Test" window in June/July/August. Some SH teams travel North, and some NH teams travel south.

2. Rugby Championship and NH Players Rest period
After the Mid Year Tests, the SH carry on into the Rugby Championship, the Pacific Nations Cup and the South American Rugby Championship, while the NH players go into their rest period prior to their next season start in October.

3. SH Player's Rest Period
After the Rugby Championship is finished, and 3rd Bledisloe Cup match is played in November, the SH players go into their rest period prior to their next season start in January Ferbuary

4. Rugby World Cup
In World Cup Year, the Mid Year tests are replaced with the RWC at the same time. The NH rest period is pushed back one week, as is the Rugby Championship (because the RWC takes six weeks not five)

5. The Lions Tour
Played as it is now, in the odd numbered year between RWC's, and in the same six week slot as the RWC. It would be the host team's Mid Year tests series. With England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales involved in the Lions Tour, it might be an opportunity for the non-hosting SANZAR Nations and the Pacific Teams to host or tour some of the NH Tier 2 teams, Romania, Georgia, Russia, Japan.

However, I object to International Rugby taking all the hits on this. The NH domestic season is unrealistically long. It needs shortening, either by reducing the number of teams involved, or by increasing the number of teams, but doing away with the home-away ties.

Whatever happens. Test Rugby MUST remain the pinnacle of the game.

Actually, this is what should be done instead of a global season. I mean, no forcing anyone to play when they don't want and giving 2 alternatives of resting periods.
Sure, some adjustment could be made. For instance, changing the international windows to the end of the year, starting earlier the SH international championships.

Then, leave the NH nations to deal with their season by their own.