The Hybrid Game

[goodNumber10]

Who mentioned 7s or league for viewing figures? The only viewing figures I mentioned was for the rare attacking creative moments in Union which generate the most views.

The issue is the game has less attacking, creative running Rugby as previous, embodied by France who have adopted the "stodgy" forward orientated game of others. This bogged down game is now the main course, running Rugby is a side order.

There are less holes than previous...players are bulked up to the heavens. When the game isnt being dominated by the forwards and the backs actually get their hands on the ball, how many clean breaks are there? There are loads in League as 13 is just about right, plus all the players are athletes so it's constant fast attacking Rugby (in between the play the ball routine).

It really doesn't have less attacking rugby.

You can pick great tries and superb breaks from every week of the premiership/HCup/Super 15.

I don't think you actually watch rugby union your comparisons and references to stodgy forwards play are years out of date.

France haven't been stick it up your jumper for a couple of seasons now in fact half the problem is they can't stick it up the jumper and get forward dominance that allows their backs to play, they have little structure which is the complete opposite of what you claim.

Huget, Dulin and Fofana are three of the best attacking runners in world rugby all in the current French side.

There are plenty of line breaks and attacking play in union you just don't get them so much from phase play like you do in league. You get them from counter attack and primary phase ball.

 

[big ginger 8]

I love how Simon only picks posts where he feels he can reitirate his whole spiel again to reply to. This argument has been carried on over too many threads and is just going around in circles.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Gents if you don't feed the 'Gentleman Troll' then he he will go hungry and leave alone. If you feed him he will respond. Take note.

 

[RoosTah]

Personally, I agree with Time Magazine. The sport with the biggest problem is soccer:

First, the problem. Far and away the most common reason cited for the sport’s unpopularity in the United States is that you can spend 90 minutes watching and never see a goal. “Americans love to see scoring,” says Stephen Clark, a news anchor at WXYZ news in Detroit, who wrote a post on the subject ahead of the last World Cup in South Africa. “In soccer it’s too usual to see a game end at 1-0... [but] The problem isn’t just infrequent scoring ... It’s the frequency with which games end in a “draw” — or a tie, in American parlance.

But they're not without solutions:

Mandelbaum also offers a proposal to make the game more popular in the United States. He’d alter the rules to favor the offense, eliminating the offside rule, which forbids players from passing to teammates standing behind enemy lines. Alternatively, he’d use the number of corner kicks awarded to each team as a way to break ties, a method that would reward aggressive play....
The close-mindedness of the sport’s establishment shouldn’t stand in the way of a good idea. And so, in that spirit, here’s a modest proposal: soccer should take its cue from boxing and install three field-side judges to secretly score every 15-minute interval. Goals would be like knock-outs. Points would only come into play in the case of a tie.

http://time.com/2864483/world-cup-2014-soccer-brazil-america/

Lets face it, the game just is rather dull and given you don't see youtube highlights of 0-0 draws I think they should change the rules to avoid them altogether.

 

[dasNdanger]

Seriously do people not realise that scrums and lineouts give you space for attacking rugby. 8 players being tied in gives more space than a game with 13 and no set peice where every member of the pack would basically be a backrower. It also allows set peice moves which gives you tries like these:

[video=youtube_share;h-qTk9RCF0Q]http://youtu.be/h-qTk9RCF0Q

http://youtu.be/PlJsV5j_aXo

http://youtu.be/PT35orm5-SE

Agreed - but when talking about creating a hybrid game, something must be sacrificed. It's just deciding what. Personally, I think the union game is perfect as it is, and would hate to see any elements lost in an attempt to create a 'hybrid'. However, in hypothetical world of 'what ifs', I can't see a truly hybrid game created from the two codes without both codes losing elements essential in their particular games. Changing scoring by one point isn't an essential element, you have to change how each game is actually played.

In the end I think it's too complicated to attempt melding the two codes in reality, though it is a fun to play with the idea here on the interwebs. No harm in that.



das

 

[SimonG]

It really doesn't have less attacking rugby.

You can pick great tries and superb breaks from every week of the premiership/HCup/Super 15.

I don't think you actually watch rugby union your comparisons and references to stodgy forwards play are years out of date.

The quotes are from players, coaches and those in grassroots of French Rugby, not from me. Us beating France this year in Paris was abit "meh"...used to be a big deal. The flair and creativity is non existent in French Rugby (your best team Toulon ain't even French)..it's a desire to see France return to their fantastic style that is one of the reasons why I'd like to see a change. I'm not totally against scrums and line outs and forward play btw...inspite of what I've stated...so long as they don't dominate games as they do currently.

Lol...Sanzar chimes in....football is taking over Australia mate get used to it. <_< The yanks laughable article sounds awfully like you...denial. Sport is a major representation of a nations culture, and Yanks (even more so than Aussies) feel culturally obligated to protect their own.."Good ole baseball and apple pie" (dont tell the yanks both are English btw)...and hate anything that infringes on that. However such insecurity over ones culture is subsiding and football is now bigger than baseball proclaimed the New York Times. The World Cup had record viewing figures that dwarfed it and the basketball finals (which apparently were on at the same time). NFL Gridiron is bizarre and unconnected to sport in terms of auduence with most folks tuning in to watch commercials. At the recent ESPY awards (biggest in the states) yanks voted the US World Cup team's winner over Ghana as the #1 sports moment of the year. A record attendance of 109,000 watched a Real Madrid game in Michigan last week (which was bigger than the 95,000 Aussies who watched Liverpool at the MCG last year...you were in the crowd mate...admit it).

My old fella encountered cultural insecurity at school where only Irish games were permitted ("no English games"...for defying it one of the priests gave him a smack on the head once..lol). Thankfully most folk have moved on and become less backward.

 

[munstermuffin]

Can I ask some - if rugby union so bad why watch it? Line outs and scrums are superb parts of game.
Simon Doug Howlett went in to a scrum in HEC when we beat Northampton and that has over 1m views I believe. As does pen try when we beat Leinster in Magners Final in 2011.
Line outs are huge and well I love some of creativity off set pieces.

 

[SimonG]

If its one part of the game fine...but not the set piece and forward dominated play we have today. France are endemic of that change. They are unrecognisable and I defy anyone who says they are as good to watch as previous.

 

[Conal]

Simon G is a soccer loving derp a derpy her der

but now he finds him self a rugby forum troll

soon a herp derp tum tiddly ta *** to derp da derpy da dum
der tum derpee more points derpte dum

rated PG my ass

 

[goodNumber10]

The quotes are from players, coaches and those in grassroots of French Rugby, not from me. Us beating France this year in Paris was abit "meh"...used to be a big deal. The flair and creativity is non existent in French Rugby (your best team Toulon ain't even French)..it's a desire to see France return to their fantastic style that is one of the reasons why I'd like to see a change. I'm not totally against scrums and line outs and forward play btw...inspite of what I've stated...so long as they don't dominate games as they do currently.

Lol...Sanzar chimes in....football is taking over Australia mate get used to it. <_< The yanks laughable article sounds awfully like you...denial. Sport is a major representation of a nations culture, and Yanks (even more so than Aussies) feel culturally obligated to protect their own.."Good ole baseball and apple pie" (dont tell the yanks both are English btw)...and hate anything that infringes on that. However such insecurity over ones culture is subsiding and football is now bigger than baseball proclaimed the New York Times. The World Cup had record viewing figures that dwarfed it and the basketball finals (which apparently were on at the same time). NFL Gridiron is bizarre and unconnected to sport in terms of auduence with most folks tuning in to watch commercials. At the recent ESPY awards (biggest in the states) yanks voted the US World Cup team's winner over Ghana as the #1 sports moment of the year. A record attendance of 109,000 watched a Real Madrid game in Michigan last week (which was bigger than the 95,000 Aussies who watched Liverpool at the MCG last year...you were in the crowd mate...admit it).

My old fella encountered cultural insecurity at school where only Irish games were permitted ("no English games"...for defying it one of the priests gave him a smack on the head once..lol). Thankfully most folk have moved on and become less backward.

We didn't beat France in Paris.

Link up those comments then French is fine if you can't find them in English.

 

[munstermuffin]

But France National team game is gone down due to large amount of foreign imports. I stated this to Gaston in a previous thread and his reply was a fair one. Clubs do what's best for clubs and if they're winning that's enough. It's not their responsibility to worry about French national team.
We can't say just because France are in a bad patch (they'll rise again for certain) that game is in bad place.

 

[RoosTah]

Lol...Sanzar chimes in....football is taking over Australia mate get used to it.

Hahaha good one buddy. By the way, it's cute that you call it "football" - most Irish people I know resolutely refuse to call it 'football', but then I guess you're more one of those 'wannabe poms' rather than an actual Irishman. Maybe that's why you hate Rugby so much? Rugby unites Ireland, but you're one love - soccer - is just an afterthought with a p*ss-poor domestic league in the North that no one gives a f##k about?

But either way, you don't need keep regurgitating your tired garbage - We already have an explanation for people like you that is quite complete:

"Twilight is like soccer. They run around for two hours, nobody scores and billion fans insist that you just don't understand."

Which brings me to my BREAKING NEWS: soccer has finally come out of the closet!



Oh, and next time you see Sonny Bill, say hi will you

 

[SimonG]

When Aussie star Timmy Cahill hammered in that beautiful volley at the World Cup that sent all of Australia wild (similar to the reaction in the US that greeted their winner against Ghana...the American public's #1 sports moment of the year)...Sanzar was either going nuts in the bars like everyone else, or sat alone embittered in a darkened room. <_<

With football being the biggest sport on the planet and insecurity over ones own culture subsiding, more Premier League games are shown in the US (on NBC) and Australia (Fox Sports) than we get in the UK...I'm envious tbh but that's the global appeal of the game and the world's most watched league.

We didn't beat France in Paris.

Link up those comments then French is fine if you can't find them in English.

I can assure you we beat France in Paris...BOD's last game in green, and as I said the feeling was abit "meh"...it wasn't the feat it used to be.

First article;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/8534780.stm

French rugby thrives only in the south-west of France.

Apart from a few Welsh valleys, this is the only part of Europe where young boys grow up wanting to be rugby stars instead of football players.

On why French now play boring rugby;

One fan, policeman Alain Pietau, who also trains a junior side in his spare time, told me that because of the foreign influx, the famous "French flair" - a fast paced, risk taking and attractive attacking style was disappearing from the game.

The French are under pressure to copy the stodgy game played elsewhere that is boring to watch - but ultimately more successful.

The biggest challenge of all may also be the hardest to resolve - the game has yet to capture mass appeal outside this region.

The rugby authorities based in Paris have been trying for years to bridge the gap, with limited success.


Second article; (Guscott at this years six nations)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/26330558

The French national side used to have a DNA; a definite, exciting way of playing.
But this has been coached out of them over the last decade. I've no idea why. Whatever the reason, watching France at the moment is like watching clowns at the circus.

The French Top 14 is attritional and forward-orientated, with the onus on discipline and kicking. However, this has always been the case in France and in years gone by this mind-set didn't affect the national team.

French rugby used to be full of characters who were brave enough to challenge the national coach and say: "We don't want to play rugby that way. We want to play rugby how we enjoy playing it."

What happened to French flair?

I sat in the Stade de France during the 30-10 win over Italy two weeks ago and I was gobsmacked at France's tactics. It was a case of 'let the forwards stick it up their jumpers and try to bully and smash their way through'. It was lacklustre and unimaginative in every single way.


That's basically what I've been saying. Experts in the game and folk at grassroot level have lamented the deterioration of French Rugby and the adoption of the stodgy game now on show. Its a shame as France used to be the most enjoyable team in Rugby to watch. It's for these reasons that I'd like to see the game shift away from what's its become, and showcase flair, creativity and exciting Rugby.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

French rugby thrives only in the south-west of France.

But...that's utter horse sh*t. Have you ever been to France?
You linked to an article from four bloody years ago.

 

[Big Ewis]

But...that's utter horse sh*t. Have you ever been to France?
You linked to an article from four bloody years ago.

well no need to resort to such language, friend but indeed, the rosbif is right. It's just a bit of a caricature to say that, or a partial reality if you will. It's clear the Southwest (Toulouse as the big example) is the paradigm, the quintessential area for French Rugby.

But it expands all the way to the central area, of which Clermont of course, you can see the "Auvergne" region on the map there with Clermont-Ferrand, its "capital".
And the PACA (Provences-Alpes-Côte d'Azur) region close to Italy there also has some Rugby. Toulon is in the Var department (where I currently am, which is in PACA) for instance. And then there's the Rhône-Alpes a bit higher on the East, with Lyon for e.g. (who are in the Top 14 this year) with also Oyonnax, Grenoble or Bourgouin.

But yes, the big, big supplier of Rugby is the Southwest.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Languedoc-Roussillon is the best

 

[SimonG]

You linked to an article from four bloody years ago.

Yep 2010...and an article that backs it up in 2014. It's been a decline for many years, or as Guscott states the last decade. Before reading from those at grassroots level as well as experts within the game, this is how I saw it just from what was on view.

 

[goodNumber10]

When Aussie star Timmy Cahill hammered in that beautiful volley at the World Cup that sent all of Australia wild (similar to the reaction in the US that greeted their winner against Ghana...the American public's #1 sports moment of the year)...Sanzar was either going nuts in the bars like everyone else, or sat alone embittered in a darkened room. <_<

With football being the biggest sport on the planet and insecurity over ones own culture subsiding, more Premier League games are shown in the US (on NBC) and Australia (Fox Sports) than we get in the UK...I'm envious tbh but that's the global appeal of the game and the world's most watched league.



I can assure you we beat France in Paris...BOD's last game in green, and as I said the feeling was abit "meh"...it wasn't the feat it used to be.

First article;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/8534780.stm

French rugby thrives only in the south-west of France.

Apart from a few Welsh valleys, this is the only part of Europe where young boys grow up wanting to be rugby stars instead of football players.

On why French now play boring rugby;

One fan, policeman Alain Pietau, who also trains a junior side in his spare time, told me that because of the foreign influx, the famous "French flair" - a fast paced, risk taking and attractive attacking style was disappearing from the game.

The French are under pressure to copy the stodgy game played elsewhere that is boring to watch - but ultimately more successful.

The biggest challenge of all may also be the hardest to resolve - the game has yet to capture mass appeal outside this region.

The rugby authorities based in Paris have been trying for years to bridge the gap, with limited success.


Second article; (Guscott at this years six nations)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/26330558

The French national side used to have a DNA; a definite, exciting way of playing.
But this has been coached out of them over the last decade. I've no idea why. Whatever the reason, watching France at the moment is like watching clowns at the circus.

The French Top 14 is attritional and forward-orientated, with the onus on discipline and kicking. However, this has always been the case in France and in years gone by this mind-set didn't affect the national team.

French rugby used to be full of characters who were brave enough to challenge the national coach and say: "We don't want to play rugby that way. We want to play rugby how we enjoy playing it."

What happened to French flair?

I sat in the Stade de France during the 30-10 win over Italy two weeks ago and I was gobsmacked at France's tactics. It was a case of 'let the forwards stick it up their jumpers and try to bully and smash their way through'. It was lacklustre and unimaginative in every single way.


That's basically what I've been saying. Experts in the game and folk at grassroot level have lamented the deterioration of French Rugby and the adoption of the stodgy game now on show. Its a shame as France used to be the most enjoyable team in Rugby to watch. It's for these reasons that I'd like to see the game shift away from what's its become, and showcase flair, creativity and exciting Rugby.

Ah, sorry forgot you were Irish.... Of course you won in paris.

I don't recall it being a bit meh, I recall it being overshadowed by BOD's last game.

Your articles are not particularly convincing... 1 is four years old and focused on one region, the other is by a guy who admits in the rugby paper and on bbc he doesn't watch French club rugby.

French rugby was traditionally forwards orientated, always has been, JP Reives is probably the most famous French rugby player ever and he was a 6.

If anything the influx of non-French to the top 14 has brought out more running rugby in the sport.

 

[Peat]

If I wanted a game to resemble a hybrid, I would introduce more free-kicks instead of penalties into Rugby Union. Less penalties mean less kicks to touch, and less lineouts - although clearing kicks still make it a valuable tool - and less penalties means less scrummaging to gain the three and more using it as a platform - but the possibility of the counter-drive means it would remain a useful skill. Only issue is making sure props don't just dive to the earth, which might mean more penalty tries and yellow cards. That seems to introduce more of the flavour and feel of League while remaining like Union than introducing any rules I can think of.

p.s.

Dear all,

I found this link very helpful

http://www.howtoarguewithanidiot.com/

 

[munstermuffin]

When Aussie star Timmy Cahill hammered in that beautiful volley at the World Cup that sent all of Australia wild (similar to the reaction in the US that greeted their winner against Ghana...the American public's #1 sports moment of the year)...Sanzar was either going nuts in the bars like everyone else, or sat alone embittered in a darkened room. <_<

With football being the biggest sport on the planet and insecurity over ones own culture subsiding, more Premier League games are shown in the US (on NBC) and Australia (Fox Sports) than we get in the UK...I'm envious tbh but that's the global appeal of the game and the world's most watched league.



I can assure you we beat France in Paris...BOD's last game in green, and as I said the feeling was abit "meh"...it wasn't the feat it used to be.

First article;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/8534780.stm

French rugby thrives only in the south-west of France.

Apart from a few Welsh valleys, this is the only part of Europe where young boys grow up wanting to be rugby stars instead of football players.

On why French now play boring rugby;

One fan, policeman Alain Pietau, who also trains a junior side in his spare time, told me that because of the foreign influx, the famous "French flair" - a fast paced, risk taking and attractive attacking style was disappearing from the game.

The French are under pressure to copy the stodgy game played elsewhere that is boring to watch - but ultimately more successful.

The biggest challenge of all may also be the hardest to resolve - the game has yet to capture mass appeal outside this region.

The rugby authorities based in Paris have been trying for years to bridge the gap, with limited success.


Second article; (Guscott at this years six nations)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/26330558

The French national side used to have a DNA; a definite, exciting way of playing.
But this has been coached out of them over the last decade. I've no idea why. Whatever the reason, watching France at the moment is like watching clowns at the circus.

The French Top 14 is attritional and forward-orientated, with the onus on discipline and kicking. However, this has always been the case in France and in years gone by this mind-set didn't affect the national team.

French rugby used to be full of characters who were brave enough to challenge the national coach and say: "We don't want to play rugby that way. We want to play rugby how we enjoy playing it."

What happened to French flair?

I sat in the Stade de France during the 30-10 win over Italy two weeks ago and I was gobsmacked at France's tactics. It was a case of 'let the forwards stick it up their jumpers and try to bully and smash their way through'. It was lacklustre and unimaginative in every single way.


That's basically what I've been saying. Experts in the game and folk at grassroot level have lamented the deterioration of French Rugby and the adoption of the stodgy game now on show. Its a shame as France used to be the most enjoyable team in Rugby to watch. It's for these reasons that I'd like to see the game shift away from what's its become, and showcase flair, creativity and exciting Rugby.

You'd want to visit Paris?? Every kid dreams big that plays rugby and the academies their are some of the most ambitious in world