The injustice of the best players on the bench...

[rgman]

What´s yout opinion on J.J. Imhoff case (and others), a great Pumas player who is on the bench (against Wallabies he showed his skills, didn´t he?). Tell me please about coaches blunders like that in the elite of rugby....

 

[Icemn]

What´s yout opinion on J.J. Imhoff case (and others), a great Pumas player who is on the bench (against Wallabies he showed his skills, didn´t he?). Tell me please about coaches blunders like that in the elite of rugby....

i'm sure the SA boys will have a lot to say

 

[nickdnz]

Yeah, it's a bit of a shame, but to be fair I think Camacho has been very good. Imhoff should get a start in Argentina, hopefully for Agulla. One problem Imhoff does have is suspect defense. Will need to sort that out. Think Melhor already started a thread like this before his departure, may be worth continuing it there.

 

[psychic duck]

Yeah, it's a bit of a shame, but to be fair I think Camacho has been very good. Imhoff should get a start in Argentina, hopefully for Agulla. One problem Imhoff does have is suspect defense. Will need to sort that out. Think Melhor already started a thread like this before his departure, may be worth continuing it there.

A problem with Camacho is that he has suspect pace and try scoring abilities ...

Although as you say, he has done very well at his strengths (tackling, wriggling a few metres) this tournament.

He has outplayed Agulla (who was on his best ever form going into this tournament), who hasn't done much wrong, but hasn't really done much at all good either.

Imhoff tackles far too high in defence, but he is by far the Argentine winger with the most pace, agility and has a better try scoring record than Camacho and Agulla combined.

Imhoff helped set up a try for Argentina that Camacho would have never been able to do last weekend (and would have had more pace than McCabe), but then missed a tackle that Camacho would have made. (As it happens neither of those tries should have counted http://www.rugby365.com/article/49657-ioane-it-was-a-forward-pass)

In many ways, Camacho's style is like England's Mark Cueto. He's not a prolific try scorer, and is not phenomenally quick. But has great defensive technique (arguably one of the best defenders in the world for his small size), may be able to contribute at rucks, and also makes a few metres here and there wriggling past the gainline but without really cutting through a defence.

Imhoff is like the complete opposite to Camacho, he has the best try scoring record of any Argentine player, is quick and has a good sidestep. But isn't going to contribute much when you don't have the ball.

It's like Wales pondering whether to pick Shane Williams for so long. Henry and Hansen both regarded him too small for international rugby and too weak in defence despite having a good try scoring record. He was picked for a reserve Wales side to play New Zealand in 2003, but set up a try and scored a try and made some breaks and was from then one of the first names on the teamsheet for Wales.

Wales realised that they were a much better team with their most prolific try scorer, regardless of his defensive weakness, which although Shane never was going to become a big hitting tackler, he did manage to improve in the last few years of his career to be able to push a player into touch or hold onto a player until another player knocks him down.

Didn't you once say that people tried to change Rokocoko (who was in 2003/04 the world's leading try scoring wing) in to contribute off the ball more and it made him bulk up too much and lose some pace and agility?

Like you, I would start Imhoff and Camacho on the wings (although I would have said Agulla instead of Camacho before the tournament).

 

[nickdnz]

A problem with Camacho is that he has suspect pace and try scoring abilities ...

Although as you say, he has done very well at his strengths (tackling, wriggling a few metres) this tournament.

He has outplayed Agulla (who was on his best ever form going into this tournament), who hasn't done much wrong, but hasn't really done much at all good either.

Imhoff tackles far too high in defence, but he is by far the Argentine winger with the most pace, agility and has a better try scoring record than Camacho and Agulla combined.

Imhoff helped set up a try for Argentina that Camacho would have never been able to do last weekend (and would have had more pace than McCabe), but then missed a tackle that Camacho would have made. (As it happens neither of those tries should have counted http://www.rugby365.com/article/49657-ioane-it-was-a-forward-pass)

In many ways, Camacho's style is like England's Mark Cueto. He's not a prolific try scorer, and is not phenomenally quick. But has great defensive technique (arguably one of the best defenders in the world for his small size), may be able to contribute at rucks, and also makes a few metres here and there wriggling past the gainline but without really cutting through a defence.

Imhoff is like the complete opposite to Camacho, he has the best try scoring record of any Argentine player, is quick and has a good sidestep. But isn't going to contribute much when you don't have the ball.

It's like Wales pondering whether to pick Shane Williams for so long. Henry and Hansen both regarded him too small for international rugby and too weak in defence despite having a good try scoring record. He was picked for a reserve Wales side to play New Zealand in 2003, but set up a try and scored a try and made some breaks and was from then one of the first names on the teamsheet for Wales.

Wales realised that they were a much better team with their most prolific try scorer, regardless of his defensive weakness, which although Shane never was going to become a big hitting tackler, he did manage to improve in the last few years of his career to be able to push a player into touch or hold onto a player until another player knocks him down.

Didn't you once say that people tried to change Rokocoko (who was in 2003/04 the world's leading try scoring wing) in to contribute off the ball more and it made him bulk up too much and lose some pace and agility?

Like you, I would start Imhoff and Camacho on the wings (although I would have said Agulla instead of Camacho before the tournament).

Yep, sort of. I actually think Rokocoko was (and despite sucking atm in Bayonne, still is) extremely quick. There was a time in 2011 Super Rugby when he mowed down Aaron Cruden from 20m away, got to his feet and almost caught Gear before tripping. But yes, the way he was told to cahnge I think made him worse. He added more muscle, so he took contact more, rather than find space like he used to. He upped his work rate like crazy and became a very safe player, but he seemed to lose the knack to back himself and burn people on the outside and when he did it was often very effective, but then he'd play safe again. He also was moved from 11 to 14 to accomidate Sivivatu in the AB's, which he was never anywhere near the right winger he was on the left.

I think the same thing has happened to Hosea Gear. He's now very safe, but if you compare his play that Jamie Joseph has got him playing, doing small hit ups 100x a game, now he doesn't back himself as much. When he was in the Hurricanes in 2010, you look at his play and he would break tackles and run around people better than anyone.

I totally agree that winger is where I expect a few defensive frailties to be justified (Kahui on the wing, as well as he did by being very safe, I'd have preferred Gear). Imhoff should start, as he has the most potential to change a game, but I think Argentina were trying to keep close and hope to pull away, in their matches so far. At home I'd expect them to use Imhoff.

 

[psychic duck]

Yep, sort of. I actually think Rokocoko was (and despite sucking atm in Bayonne, still is) extremely quick. There was a time in 2011 Super Rugby when he mowed down Aaron Cruden from 20m away, got to his feet and almost caught Gear before tripping. But yes, the way he was told to cahnge I think made him worse. He added more muscle, so he took contact more, rather than find space like he used to. He upped his work rate like crazy and became a very safe player, but he seemed to lose the knack to back himself and burn people on the outside and when he did it was often very effective, but then he'd play safe again. He also was moved from 11 to 14 to accomidate Sivivatu in the AB's, which he was never anywhere near the right winger he was on the left.

Then why didn't they swap Sivivatu and Rokocoko around at some point? Sivivatu plays 14 for Clermont and does quite well there.

Wing sides might actually be affecting Agulla, he's just had his best ever season for Leicester playing at 14, but has been playing at 11 for Argentina. Perhaps he finds it easier to get involved better from 14.

I think the same thing has happened to Hosea Gear. He's now very safe, but if you compare his play that Jamie Joseph has got him playing, doing small hit ups 100x a game, now he doesn't back himself as much. When he was in the Hurricanes in 2010, you look at his play and he would break tackles and run around people better than anyone.

I totally agree that winger is where I expect a few defensive frailties to be justified (Kahui on the wing, as well as he did by being very safe, I'd have preferred Gear). Imhoff should start, as he has the most potential to change a game, but I think Argentina were trying to keep close and hope to pull away, in their matches so far. At home I'd expect them to use Imhoff.

Phelan is a very conservative coach, he resists bringing in on form youngsters in favour of established players, and picks the solid but unremarkable player ahead of the risky flair player.

Perhaps focusing the side on defence may help contain New Zealand by keeping it tight, but a test of how strong Argentina really are will come in November when they face sides that are around their level (Ireland, Wales, France). They will need to do more than contain against those sides.

Against those sides, the Pumas since Phelan took over have had generally poor results compared to Loffreda.

In fact the only away matches Argentina have won since 2008 when Phelan took over have been against Italy and Scotland, both the weakest of the 6 Nations. Their record in away matches since 2008 stands at Played 15, Won 2. Not very impressive if you consider under Loffreda, Argentina beat England, Wales, France (regularly) plus Italy and Scotland and despite not beating Ireland away they beat them several times at home.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

As long as we have Lambie and Goosen on the bench in favor of M. Steyn and Kirchner, no other country can complain about their best players being on the bench...

 

[Colombia]

What´s yout opinion on J.J. Imhoff case (and others), a great Pumas player who is on the bench (against Wallabies he showed his skills, didn´t he?). Tell me please about coaches blunders like that in the elite of rugby....

Which player do you want to replace, probably the best winger of the tournament so far (Camacho) or the Leicester Tigers player of the year (Agulla)?

To pick one Agulla would be the player to replace as Camacho has been outstanding. I'm not sure I would replace either however.

Imhoff helped set up a try for Argentina that Camacho would have never been able to do last weekend (and would have had more pace than McCabe)

Camacho probably has more pace than McCabe but the man with the ball is always travelling slower. It's worth noting Camacho set up that opportunity himself with an aggressive rip and while other wingers might have made it I don't think he could be said he spurned a gilt-edged try-scoring opportunity.

In many ways, Camacho's style is like England's Mark Cueto. He's not a prolific try scorer, and is not phenomenally quick. But has great defensive technique (arguably one of the best defenders in the world for his small size), may be able to contribute at rucks, and also makes a few metres here and there wriggling past the gainline but without really cutting through a defence.

I think he's quicker than Cueto who imo would have been caught even sooner. That said, Camacho is not phenomenally quick for a winger by any means and given his ability to make metres and defend strongly it would be interesting to see how he would fare at outside centre (13) - Bosch has thus far offered nothing but (admittedly valuable) defense.

 

[Colombia]

Wing sides might actually be affecting Agulla, he's just had his best ever season for Leicester playing at 14, but has been playing at 11 for Argentina. Perhaps he finds it easier to get involved better from 14.

That is a good point. Interestingly Camacho scored his only test try against a tier 1 nation playing on the left wing against England in Salta (Agulla played 15).

 

[psychic duck]

Which player do you want to replace, probably the best winger of the tournament so far (Camacho) or the Leicester Tigers player of the year (Agulla)?

To pick one Agulla would be the player to replace as Camacho has been outstanding. I'm not sure I would replace either however.

In my opinion it's wrong to select two wingers who combined score/create less tries than the winger on the bench.

Camacho probably has more pace than McCabe but the man with the ball is always travelling slower.

It was obvious he doesn't. The difference in pace was so large I don't think running withou the ball would have made Camacho quicker.

It's worth noting Camacho set up that opportunity himself with an aggressive rip and while other wingers might have made it I don't think he could be said he spurned a gilt-edged try-scoring opportunity.

He did create the opportunity for himself. But you can't deny that was a "gilt-edged" try scoring opportunity, there was nobody in front of him and he had a clear run to the line just didn't have the pace. McCabe had just comeback from several weeks layoff as well, so you would expect most wingers to be able to maintain a lead on a 12 who has just come back from an injury.



15:49 on the video

I think he's quicker than Cueto who imo would have been caught even sooner. That said, Camacho is not phenomenally quick for a winger by any means and given his ability to make metres and defend strongly it would be interesting to see how he would fare at outside centre (13) - Bosch has thus far offered nothing but (admittedly valuable) defense.

This is an idea which would indeed be interesting. I wouldn't mind seeing either Agulla or Camacho tried in a game (perhaps against a lesser opponent) at 13. Unfortunately, Phelan's conservativeness and unwillingness to experiment and try new ideas meant that he (stupidly) didn't bother trialling either of them at 13 in the June internationals or the matches against Stade Français. Bosch as you say hasn't offered much.

 

[Colombia]

In my opinion it's wrong to select two wingers who combined score/create less tries than the winger on the bench.

Ordinarily I would agree but it is not as if Argentina have been getting good quick front-foot ball with space and that these wingers have been spurning opportunities presented. On the contrary Camacho has been making metres where there (initially) doesn't appear to have been any on offer. Agulla has been admittedly quiet.

There is also the point about defense. Being predominantly a "3pt" team which mostly plays narrow and kicks a lot from 9 & 10, the risk-reward ratio towards picking a riskier attacking winger over a solid defensive wing who is also no slouch in attack isn't positive.

It was obvious he doesn't. The difference in pace was so large I don't think running without the ball would have made Camacho quicker.

Well if you look, McCabe was actually alongside Camacho when he started and they were facing the same way. McCabe got to him but only just and was coming across at a slight angle. I don't think there is as much in it as you suggest but then again ideally a wing should in theory arguably be quicker than a 12 with or without the ball.

He did create the opportunity for himself. But you can't deny that was a "gilt-edged" try scoring opportunity, there was nobody in front of him and he had a clear run to the line just didn't have the pace. McCabe had just comeback from several weeks layoff as well, so you would expect most wingers to be able to maintain a lead on a 12 who has just come back from an injury.

I was more thinking of situations where a winger is put in for a try and fails to finish like Cueto used to do regularly (including in the WC QF). This was a ball Camacho ripped in his own 22 and had to run the distance to score, in that situation it's not really unusual for a winger to get caught from behind. The unusual point was that it was Pat McCabe who caught him. Nevertheless, out of nothing he forced a 3pt opportunity and a yellow card to put the opposition down.

Imo if Camacho is presented with an opportunity in the opponent's half to score - then he finishes. It's just that Argentina don't manage to get their wingers into that situation much.

As to Imhoff, while it was a top outside break and he has a lot of attacking talent, it was unusual to see Argentina breaking from there (unlike say NZ/Oz historically) and he was in touch.

In short, while I would take a look at him in the AIs I wouldn't start him in the two crucial home games coming up.

 

[nickdnz]

Then why didn't they swap Sivivatu and Rokocoko around at some point? Sivivatu plays 14 for Clermont and does quite well there.

Wing sides might actually be affecting Agulla, he's just had his best ever season for Leicester playing at 14, but has been playing at 11 for Argentina. Perhaps he finds it easier to get involved better from 14.

I think the same thing has happened to Hosea Gear. He's now very safe, but if you compare his play that Jamie Joseph has got him playing, doing small hit ups 100x a game, now he doesn't back himself as much. When he was in the Hurricanes in 2010, you look at his play and he would break tackles and run around people better than anyone.

Phelan is a very conservative coach, he resists bringing in on form youngsters in favour of established players, and picks the solid but unremarkable player ahead of the risky flair player.

Perhaps focusing the side on defence may help contain New Zealand by keeping it tight, but a test of how strong Argentina really are will come in November when they face sides that are around their level (Ireland, Wales, France). They will need to do more than contain against those sides.

Against those sides, the Pumas since Phelan took over have had generally poor results compared to Loffreda.

In fact the only away matches Argentina have won since 2008 when Phelan took over have been against Italy and Scotland, both the weakest of the 6 Nations. Their record in away matches since 2008 stands at Played 15, Won 2. Not very impressive if you consider under Loffreda, Argentina beat England, Wales, France (regularly) plus Italy and Scotland and despite not beating Ireland away they beat them several times at home.

1. In terms of why Sivivatu wasn't played at 14, I'll never know. He always looked good when he played there on occasions for the Chiefs. It made sense Sivivatu and Rokocoko both in the left wing spot from 2005-2007, as Doug Howlett was widely considered the best right wing and Rico Gear was also played there. But after 2007 when they both went overseas, Sivivatu should have played on the right and Rokocoko (who does better with the space left wingers tend to get) on the left. Rokocoko also started to play right wing for the Blues with Rene Ranger in the team. Infuriating.

2. Yeah, I know I said Gear became a safe option and then used him as an example of a guy who should replace Kahui, but I tend to think Gear is still much less safe and more dangerous, at international level at least. His try against Ireland in the third test is an example of that. I'm more concerned with him losing confidence and eventually losing that running game in favour of his hit ups, but I didn't mean to suggest that I didn't think he was still capable, just that he doesn't have that confidence at the moment.

 

[Draggs]

Strike rate =/= Skill
Sure Imhoff has scored a few, but look at the opposition.
Chile: Six
Romania, Georgia, Urugray: One each

 

[psychic duck]

Ordinarily I would agree but it is not as if Argentina have been getting good quick front-foot ball with space and that these wingers have been spurning opportunities presented. On the contrary Camacho has been making metres where there (initially) doesn't appear to have been any on offer. Agulla has been admittedly quiet.

True, but last season Imhoff was with Racing who aren't really that much of a creative side and he was breaking the line and scoring tries by himself, but obviously quick front foot ball would of course make it easier for all the backs. Look at this performance against Perpignan, none of that was created by his teammates. Imhoff also scored twice in the Stade Français matches, and helped create a try in the match against Australia. What more does he have to do in attack to be included?

There is also the point about defense. Being predominantly a "3pt" team which mostly plays narrow and kicks a lot from 9 & 10, the risk-reward ratio towards picking a riskier attacking winger over a solid defensive wing who is also no slouch in attack isn't positive.

As said above, plenty other teams have selected defensively fragile wingers but who are the top try scorers who can win them matches. Agulla and Camacho struggled under the high ball against South Africa in the first match, so those wings have their own weaknesses too.

Imhoff needs to improve tackling, but I still think you gain more than you lose with him in the side.

Well if you look, McCabe was actually alongside Camacho when he started and they were facing the same way. McCabe got to him but only just and was coming across at a slight angle. I don't think there is as much in it as you suggest but then again ideally a wing should in theory arguably be quicker than a 12 with or without the ball.

Camacho had a several metre lead at one point, McCabe was slow to start chasing hard and I didn't think he "only just" got to him. It was pretty obvious he was going to catch up from a few metres before he did.

I was more thinking of situations where a winger is put in for a try and fails to finish like Cueto used to do regularly (including in the WC QF). This was a ball Camacho ripped in his own 22 and had to run the distance to score, in that situation it's not really unusual for a winger to get caught from behind. The unusual point was that it was Pat McCabe who caught him. Nevertheless, he forced a 3pt opportunity and a yellow card to put the opposition down.

Perhaps TRF_Olyy could comment on whether Cueto would have had the pace to score that opportunity.

Imo if Camacho is presented with an opportunity in the opponent's half to score - then he finishes. It's just that Argentina don't manage to get their wingers into that so much.

You do realise that Camacho has a meagre try scoring record at club level with Exeter and Harlequins. So did Agulla as well until last season. Imhoff has scored and created tries for every team he has played for such as Racing-Métro, Argentina, Jaguars, Pampas XV.

As to Imhoff, while it was a top outside break and he has a lot of attacking talent, it was unusual to see Argentina breaking from there (unlike say NZ/Oz historically) and he was in touch. In short, while I would take a look at him in the AIs I wouldn't start him in the two crucial home games coming up.

Perhaps that is because Phelan is negative and doesn't play the players who can do that, like Imhoff, and previously Amorosino.

Strike rate =/= Skill
Sure Imhoff has scored a few, but look at the opposition.
Chile: Six
Romania, Georgia, Urugray: One each

1. Camacho and Agulla have scored barely any, most against those sides too though.

2. Imhoff has scored more for Argentina in non international matches too. He scored twice in two 15 minute bench appearances (behind Agulla and Camacho) in the Stade Français matches.

3. Look at Imhoff's record for all teams. For Racing-Métro, Argentina Jaguars (IRB try of the year nominee), Pampas XV (Vodacom Cup 2011 leading try scorer) and Argentina. Then look at Camacho's record for Exeter, Harlequins and Argentina.

4. Ignoring the stats, just look at the impact Imhoff has on the pitch. He can do things that Agulla and Camacho could only dream of in attack, and has better pace, sidestep, skill and flair than them. It's just his defence which is the problem.

Imhoff got Mirco Bergamasco out of the Racing side, I bet if Phelan were the Racing coach then he would be boring and select the non try scoring, non line breaking, but defensively sound player in Bergamasco ahead of him.

 

[Draggs]

Was Imhoff the lad who scored against the Blues last year? That was a class try.

 

[welshglory]

I'm not sure if Imoff would suit the Argentinian game plan from the start of a game though. They aren't going to beat the SANZAR sides by running from everywhere.

At this moment in time he might be a better option as an impact player.

 

[psychic duck]

Was Imhoff the lad who scored against the Blues last year? That was a class try.

Yes.

I'm not sure if Imoff would suit the Argentinian game plan from the start of a game though. They aren't going to beat the SANZAR sides by running from everywhere.

At this moment in time he might be a better option as an impact player.

If you're talking about players to the game plan then.

Then why does Phelan not select a first choice goal kicker?

If the plan is to win mainly by scoring penalties, and the forwards mauling and setting up 5 metre pick and go's.

Then surely to implement the game plan to the best effect the top goal kicker should play. South Africa have the same problem (although Hernández's punt kicking is better than Steyn's) at the moment as Steyn has lost his goal kicking reliability completely.

What would you suggest against teams who are more at the level of the Pumas like Scotland, Ireland etc?

 

[welshglory]

Yes.



If you're talking about players to the game plan then.

Then why does Phelan not select a first choice goal kicker?

If the plan is to win mainly by scoring penalties, and the forwards mauling and setting up 5 metre pick and go's.

Then surely to implement the game plan to the best effect the top goal kicker should play. South Africa have the same problem (although Hernández's punt kicking is better than Steyn's) at the moment as Steyn has lost his goal kicking reliability completely.

What would you suggest against teams who are more at the level of the Pumas like Scotland, Ireland etc?

The current game plan requires good chasing and defensive wings. Agulla and Camacho suit that.
The only first choice goal kicker in the squad is Bustos Moyano right? I certainly wouldn't start him, i think he's very average at Top 14 level never mind international. Who's to say that he would kick well at international level anyway?

I honestly don't know what they should do there because Rodriguez, Hernandez, Bosch are good footballers and they should be kicking much better. I just don't think starting Imhoff would make that much difference.

Against Scotland, Ireland or any 6 nations sides i would start Imhoff because i think as a team they would have more success trying a more expansive game plan against them.

 

[Darwin]

The current game plan requires good chasing and defensive wings. Agulla and Camacho suit that.
The only first choice goal kicker in the squad is Bustos Moyano right? I certainly wouldn't start him, i think he's very average at Top 14 level never mind international. Who's to say that he would kick well at international level anyway?

I honestly don't know what they should do there because Rodriguez, Hernandez, Bosch are good footballers and they should be kicking much better. I just don't think starting Imhoff would make that much difference.

Against Scotland, Ireland or any 6 nations sides i would start Imhoff because i think as a team they would have more success trying a more expansive game plan against them.

I think that is the key point.

The key thing when considering team selections is not necessarily just getting the best 15 players on the park, but getting the best 15 for the particular game plan. If the main thing you are using your wings for is tackling and chasing kicks (as I believe Argentina are), I don't see any issue with selecting Agulla and Camacho, as they seem very adept at these disciplines. If Argentina decides to play a more expansive game plan, someone like Imhoff will be ideal, as if given space he looks very dangerous.

I agree with psychic duck with regards to the goal-kicking issue though. The goal-kicker, often more than any other player in the team, can have a massive effect on the outcome of the game, and given the tight nature of test rugby you need to have a top class goal-kicker. I'm not that familiar with all of Argentina's goal-kicking options, but unless they can get a kicker that kicks over 75% at international level they are going to struggle to win games in the Rugby Championship, as they are unlikely to be able to rely solely on try scoring!

 

[psychic duck]

I think that is the key point.

The key thing when considering team selections is not necessarily just getting the best 15 players on the park, but getting the best 15 for the particular game plan.

Not sure about this. Would Wales drop Shane Williams? He doesn't suit Gatland/Edwards mould of a back whatsoever, as they both prefer big backs and largely play crash ball moves with them, and Edwards has even said so previously. But they selected him (even though his defence is weak) because he is a player who can do things with the ball which is unique.

If the main thing you are using your wings for is tackling and chasing kicks (as I believe Argentina are), I don't see any issue with selecting Agulla and Camacho, as they seem very adept at these disciplines. If Argentina decides to play a more expansive game plan, someone like Imhoff will be ideal, as if given space he looks very dangerous.

Imhoff has played this game plan and still has done well though in spite of it.

Playing in the same game plan over the past year. Imhoff has:

vs England - made a break which possibly could have won Argentina a penalty
vs Romania/Georgia - scored tries
vs Stade Français - scored a try from the bench
vs Stade Français - scored another try from the bench
vs Australia - helped set up a try from the bench

That's more points created/scored than he cost from his defence (which was just that try last weekend), and more points contributed than Agulla and Camacho would.

I don't know why any side would leave out a winger who had done all that, for Agulla who has done nothing all tournament with ball in hand, plus has made his own try costing errors.

If the game plan is that the winger doesn't get the ball, then why has he consistently when given the opportunity done well from the bench?

And what does he have to do to get a start when he has done well for several matches in a row.

Whilst a game plan where the wingers get the ball in space more is obviously better for them, Imhoff is capable of making opportunities for himself.

As stated earlier, Racing-Métro also play a mainly kicking game with the backs not getting much space. Yet Imhoff has scored tries there. Look at this video of him playing Perpignan, not one of these breaks are created because his teammates have created it, it's because he has found the breaks.



Imhoff can still score in uncreative teams like Racing and may be able to for Argentina too. Look at his try from the second match against Stade Français.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_YNUSl4HCY

Jump to 8:40, nobody creates it for him, he scores it himself with little space.

And despite his tackling issues, that is a technique issue not a strength issue. He is strong with ball in hand, watch this try against Castres again with little space.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXaUJK505NE

And of course he can score tries given space as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSddbsMm8Uk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNL4-JdVJ5g

Neither Camacho nor Agulla would have scored tries like them. So they're costing themselves points not having him on the pitch, his defence costing tries occurs less often than he scores them himself.

I agree with psychic duck with regards to the goal-kicking issue though. The goal-kicker, often more than any other player in the team, can have a massive effect on the outcome of the game, and given the tight nature of test rugby you need to have a top class goal-kicker. I'm not that familiar with all of Argentina's goal-kicking options, but unless they can get a kicker that kicks over 75% at international level they are going to struggle to win games in the Rugby Championship, as they are unlikely to be able to rely solely on try scoring!

Aside from Martín Bustos Moyano, Nicolás Sanchez is the other who has goal kicked as first choice at domestic level but he bizarrely didn't when he played against South Africa and they favoured Martín Rodríguez (who barely ever kicks for his club Stade Français) who's kicking single handedly cost Argentina their World Cup match against England.