The NZ/SA Rivalry, how fierce is it?

[Gorman]

This one is mainly directed at Kiwis and South Africans.

We hear about the great New Zealand - South Africa rugby rivalry reasonably often, and I wanted to dig into what it actually meant.

Basically, I am asking you guys to tell me who you consider to be your prospective countries greatest rivals are, and why. If you are a South African/New Zealander and you think that the NZ-SA are the ultimate rivals, tell us why!

I you are a Kiwi and you DON'T consider the South Africans as the ultimate competition for the All Blacks, let me know who you think is the pinnacle of opposition and why. Same goes for our South African contingent, just with the names swapped around!

As an additional, how would you catergorise the Australians in context to the NZ-SA rivalry

 

[Feicarsinn]

Not to derail the thread before it begins, but do people think the frequency with which the All Blacks and the Springboks play these days (2 to 3 times a year) has diluted the rivalry somewhat? From my own perspective, our rivalry with the Welsh has gotten pretty spicy, and half of the fun emerges from the fact that if something controversial happens or we lose we have to wait a full year before the score can be settled.

 

[nickdnz]

Well to answer this let me tell you about when I was a boy.

You know, when I was a little boy growing up in South Africa 1995, there was this New Zealand rugby team across the ocean from us, name of the All Blacks. And they were, uh, - well, I guess they were just a little luckier than my Springboks were. They had the best rugby team in the world. That was a big deal around that town. Now, my Daddy hated that team , 'cause his friends were always kiddin' him about oh, they saw the Springboks lose to the All Blacks, and the All Blacks would win another Rugby World Cup. And one morning that rugby team got food poisoning. They poisoned the food. And after that there was never any mention about that rugby team around my Daddy. It just never came up. So one time, we were drivin' down the road and we passed the All Blacks hotel and we saw it was empty. They'd just packed up and left, I guess. Gone up North, or somethin'. I looked over at my Daddy's face - and I knew he'd done it. And he saw that I knew. He was ashamed. I guess he was ashamed. He looked at me and he said: 'If you ain't better than a Kiwi, son, who are you better than?'...He was an old man just so full of hate that he didn't know that the poor Springboks was what was killin' him.

Hope that answers your question.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Not to derail the thread before it begins, but do people think the frequency with which the All Blacks and the Springboks play these days (2 to 3 times a year) has diluted the rivalry somewhat? From my own perspective, our rivalry with the Welsh has gotten pretty spicy, and half of the fun emerges from the fact that if something controversial happens or we lose we have to wait a full year before the score can be settled.

It certainly did back when it was the Tri nations. Now with 1 home and one away fixture I am a lot more.. into it.

As for the OP...

It's a difficult one. As a South African I see our main rivals as England and NZ. England culturally and NZ ITO pure rugby if that makes sense IE if NZ didn't play as well as they do it'd solely be England.

 

[KopperKoos]

What captivates me every time about the rivalry is the up most respect these players have for each other, there are countless examples like coach Graham Henry congratulating the boks in there change rooms away from the media on there first win at Dunedin in 2008. Or when the haka was on the chopping block the South African Rugby Union was the first one to voice its destain (Same cant be said of your Tasmanian brothers though). I still get a lump in my throat when watching that haka , and I always picture myself facing it. I think the proudest moment for a springbok is putting on the jersey for the first time, but that is closely followed by facing the haka.

Here is a eye-opening documentary about just how much the springbok all black rivalry means to South Africa and New Zealand . This rivalry is not only the biggest in rugby ,I would go out on limb and say its the biggest sporting rivalry in the world .

Part 1 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJtJQekzPKY
Part 2 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trxM2AXL3ms
Part 3 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTGmIIfjUR4
Part 4 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni-erwdM3WA
Part 5 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wtxXSoqGuY

Final thought: When the New Zealand Herlad journalist Andrew Austin was asked to comment on the rivalry between the All blacks and Wallabies he said : "The old enemy wears green and gold not just gold"

 

[TRF_heineken]

Well to answer this let me tell you about when I was a boy.

You know, when I was a little boy growing up in South Africa 1995, there was this New Zealand rugby team across the ocean from us, name of the All Blacks. And they were, uh, - well, I guess they were just a little luckier than my Springboks were. They had the best rugby team in the world. That was a big deal around that town. Now, my Daddy hated that team , 'cause his friends were always kiddin' him about oh, they saw the Springboks lose to the All Blacks, and the All Blacks would win another Rugby World Cup. And one morning that rugby team got food poisoning. They poisoned the food. And after that there was never any mention about that rugby team around my Daddy. It just never came up. So one time, we were drivin' down the road and we passed the All Blacks hotel and we saw it was empty. They'd just packed up and left, I guess. Gone up North, or somethin'. I looked over at my Daddy's face - and I knew he'd done it. And he saw that I knew. He was ashamed. I guess he was ashamed. He looked at me and he said: 'If you ain't better than a Kiwi, son, who are you better than?'...He was an old man just so full of hate that he didn't know that the poor Springboks was what was killin' him.

Hope that answers your question.

Hahaha!!

basically, between these 2 nations, a grudge lasts a very long time... It's basically like how long it takes for Daenerys Targaryen to get back to Kings Landing.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Well to answer this let me tell you about when I was a boy.

You know, when I was a little boy growing up in South Africa 1995, there was this New Zealand rugby team across the ocean from us, name of the All Blacks. And they were, uh, - well, I guess they were just a little luckier than my Springboks were. They had the best rugby team in the world. That was a big deal around that town. Now, my Daddy hated that team , 'cause his friends were always kiddin' him about oh, they saw the Springboks lose to the All Blacks, and the All Blacks would win another Rugby World Cup. And one morning that rugby team got food poisoning. They poisoned the food. And after that there was never any mention about that rugby team around my Daddy. It just never came up. So one time, we were drivin' down the road and we passed the All Blacks hotel and we saw it was empty. They'd just packed up and left, I guess. Gone up North, or somethin'. I looked over at my Daddy's face - and I knew he'd done it. And he saw that I knew. He was ashamed. I guess he was ashamed. He looked at me and he said: 'If you ain't better than a Kiwi, son, who are you better than?'...He was an old man just so full of hate that he didn't know that the poor Springboks was what was killin' him.

Hope that answers your question.

I can't believe you took the time to write that up. It just goes to show how much you care I suppose?

 

[nickdnz]

I can't believe you took the time to write that up. It just goes to show how much you care I suppose?

Maybe less time than you think. I just copy and pasted a speech from Mississippi Burning and substituted a few words here and there..

On a serious note, one thing that always gets me is when I meet a South African in New Zealand, you can generally have an intelligible rugby conversation with them. Generally speaking the South Africans I tend to meet are white South African immigrants, so it may not apply to the whole country, but as a general rule they're really the only country where I regularly meet people passionate about rugby. We've both been historically very successful and we both are isolated from Northern Hemisphere rugby. Therefore yes, there is a rivalry probably a bit different to other nations. Australia during the 90s and early 2000s were great, but I think the lack of commitment to rugby as a national sport is probably why I don't think they are revered quite as much (that said some of the players I was most worried about were Wallabies).

As a rule I think a strong South Africa is one of New Zealand's greatest motivators. Despite Peter de Villiers, 2009 was one of the best teams I've said. They choked New Zealand in a three game series. After a rule change and I think in response to South Africa's dominance, we changed our game to the extent I think the 2010 team was the best we've been since 2005, including the 2011-current team.