The psychology of choking

[TRF C A Iversen]

They do alright

So if doing "alright" is France failing to win a single world cup, then New Zealand have done alright also.

Mind you there's a mind-set from some that they'll always beat New Zealand in a World Cup. So I guess we get to claim the under-dog tag if we meet in the next world cup. Which I suspect will be a good thing to have.

 

[Charles]

@ Charles

So why do France fail then?

France fail because mentally we're not that strong either. For a start, we can only perform against a strong team with our backs to the wall. A bit like when you wait until sunday night to start your 10 pages essay for monday morning.

Second, we've only got one huge game in the tank mentally and physically. Happened in 99 and 07. We beat the AB and that was that. It was our world cup victory. We just coudn't give a **** after that.

Finally, the English know exactly how to **** us off mand make us lose focus...

 

[FlukeArtist]

So let me get this straight...

England can get dicked by the ABs for years straight, yet make the RWC final in '07 because they are mentally stronger?

Thats nonsense.

I don't think you would find a single international player that would subcribe to that school of thought.

If they were as "mentally strong" as you say, they wouldn't lose as much as they do.

The fact is, RWC comes down to one game on one day.
And anything can happen.. weather, form, passion, wayne barnes , they can all play a part

 

[Charles]

So let me get this straight...

England can get dicked by the ABs for years straight, yet make the RWC final in '07 because they are mentally stronger?

Precisely. They got beat 36-0 by SA in the pool games, were absolute **** for 4 years and still made it to the final. How do you think they beat Australia? Fancy rugby? Not really...

Thats nonsense.


I don't think you would find a single international player that would subcribe to that school of thought.

If they were as "mentally strong" as you say, they wouldn't lose as much as they do.

You keep telling yourself that, seems to have worked wonders for you guys already.

 

[FlukeArtist]

well yes it has worked wonders- you are quite right.
No one else in the world comes close to the ABs in winning percentages

 

[FlukeArtist]

Originally Posted by FlukeArtist
So let me get this straight...

England can get dicked by the ABs for years straight, yet make the RWC final in '07 because they are mentally stronger?
Precisely. They got beat 36-0 by SA in the pool games, were absolute **** for 4 years and still made it to the final. How do you think they beat Australia? Fancy rugby? Not really...

So it couldn't be that the just got lucky on the day, or played out of their skin on a day the opposition didn't hit their straps?
NO- they were "mentally tougher".... getting beaten all the way through the preceding years was part of master plan obviously....

 

[Charles]

well yes it has worked wonders- you are quite right.
No one else in the world comes close to the ABs in winning friendlies and losing when it really matters.

Fixed it for you. That's exactly what I've been saying. You guys are consistently the best team in the world yet you always fail at the world cup. If you think that's down to bad luck, that's good for you. Don't change a thing, makes it funnier to see you go berserk when you lose it again.

*cue reply about the WC not being the be-all-end-all of world rugby*

So it couldn't be that the just got lucky on the day, or played out of their skin on a day the opposition didn't hit their straps?
NO- they were "mentally tougher".... getting beaten all the way through the preceding years was part of master plan obviously....

Again, if you want to believe you can get to a WC final just on luck, feel free...You don't seem to understand that the form of a team for the 4 years before a world cup is not an indicator of how that team is going to perform at the WC. Quite ironic for a Kiwi really...

 

[Seaton]

Some nationalities get awful touchy with regards to world cup, or rather lack of world cup wins I see.

 

[TRF C A Iversen]

Some nationalities get awful touchy with regards to world cup, or rather lack of world cup wins I see.

Yes, as much as that applies to New Zealand, it also applies to many other countries. For example the French haven't won one, yet some seem to often see the All Blacks as an easy target due to beating them twice. It is I guess, their only really significant achievement on the World Cup scene and is often deemed as a qualification to know more, be wiser and generally lord themselves over New Zealanders. I guess it makes them feel somewhat better. It's probably better for their egos to feel this way.

Also, some tend to be quite good at firing the first negative comment in "discussions".

 

[Charles]

Yes, as much as that applies to New Zealand, it also applies to many other countries. For example the French haven't won one, yet some seem to often see the All Blacks as an easy target due to beating them twice. It is I guess, their only really significant achievement on the World Cup scene and is often deemed as a qualification to know more, be wiser and generally lord themselves over New Zealanders. I guess it makes them feel somewhat better. It's probably better for their egos to feel this way.

Also, some tend to be quite good at firing the first negative comment in "discussions".

:lol:



3/10

You need to do a bit better than that if you want to rile me up, seriously.

 

[TRF C A Iversen]

:lol:



3/10

You need to do a bit better than that if you want to rile me up, seriously.

I don't need to do any better then, as that was not my intention. Statement of my view of the facts.

What's 3/10? It's very close to the number of win/loss ratio that France have had against the All Blacks in the last 13 odd games, but not quite.

 

[ditdat42]

Best thread ever, typical kiwi over reacting when people point out the one consistent chink in their normally invulnerable armour.

But you kiwis are screwed no matter what happens. If you choke then the chokers tag is gonna keep going and if you win you finally catch the other southern hemisphere giants up with number of world cup wins but your just gonna be given crap all the time because you can only win the world cup in your own back yard.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

They do alright

Failed to mention the '99 RWC SF

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Don't mention 1999 RWC Final mind. I was there tho

 

[TRF C A Iversen]

Best thread ever, typical kiwi over reacting when people point out the one consistent chink in their normally invulnerable armour.

But you kiwis are screwed no matter what happens. If you choke then the chokers tag is gonna keep going and if you win you finally catch the other southern hemisphere giants up with number of world cup wins but your just gonna be given crap all the time because you can only win the world cup in your own back yard.

Typical kiwi over-reacting? Can I counter with a typical pom making brainless assumptions? Although I don't believe in nationalistic cultural stereotyping, so I'll leave that out (maybe you should have too). I'm not over-reacting. :lol: I'm finding this a laugh really. Best thread ever? Your well read aren't you?

We're screwed no matter what happens? Not really, if we don't win the world cup I'd still rather support no-one else and life will go on. The big problem for anyone who wants to rub stuff into us, is that we've heard it all before now.

This thread started out mocking New Zealanders first and after a few jokes and comments back, we're over-reacting? It seems to me if this thread turns into something that gets nasty and has to be locked, that'll be down to what was started by others than me.

We all know that New Zealand has choked in previous World Cups at times and been out-classed in individual matches in others.

So, besides trying (in vain) to stir up New Zealanders, what is the point or aim in bringing up what gets mentioned in this thread?

 

[User1245]

The 1st step is admitting you have a problem...

<_<

 

[TRF_Cymro]

The 1st step is admitting you have a problem...

<_<

Think the '99 WC showed that :lol: please stand Allan Donald and Lance Klusener.

 

[Seaton]

No catches

Time to put in some 'useful' input

The All Blacks have either choked or been unlucky in WCs, I don't consider the last one unlucky (obviously making reference to the game as a whole rather than just the forward pass), as the tactics to me seemed as though they were just waiting for the French to counter.
Pick and go after pick and go, it really was quite boring, the tackle count was nearly 200 IIRC

 

[TRF C A Iversen]

The 1st step is admitting you have a problem...

<_<

Exactly, there are other sporting chokes in the world other than New Zealand in Rugby. Rather than rub it into South Africans with cricket though, I think it's a damn unlucky shame as they are an awesome team who deserve a crack at a final at least and soon. We knocked them out of the tournament, but to be honest I think they could've done more with the chance, so it was a bit of a shame.

No catches

Time to put in some 'useful' input

The All Blacks have either choked or been unlucky in WCs, I don't consider the last one unlucky (obviously making reference to the game as a whole rather than just the forward pass), as the tactics to me seemed as though they were just waiting for the French to counter.
Pick and go after pick and go, it really was quite boring, the tackle count was nearly 200 IIRC

Now that's a fair criticism. I don't mind admitting that was a large part of the problem in that game.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Choking in sport can go the other way (other than the favorite tanking because of pressure or over-confidence) as well in that the underdog can get kinda dumbstruck that he is ahead and both instances are related to a loss of focus. Personally, this happened to me in different sports where my rugby team were ahead half way against a team we had lost to massively for the last 3 years and come 2nd half we totally stoppped playing the game the way we were up to that point trying to defend our lead and ended up getting pipped (we came right the next year though and in track and field, I was so surprised to see I was ahead in the 400mH when we came round the bend at nationals that I actually turned my head, lost focus and of course fell over the next hurdle and couldn't catch up again quick enough.

Best cure; experience. IE Knowing that you might be in a position to win as underdog and also not underestimate your opponents if your the favourite and having the focus to not get influenced either way.

 

[GreenyBoii]

Not to stick up for the Kiwi's or anything but what happens to England (football) every 4 years (maybe even two)? They choke on the world stage after everyone says "This is our year!" and then we blame the players. If you ask me we get too excited (myself included) pile the pressure on the players, expect everything and then are bitterly disappointed when we don't get what we want. I do agree with what you are all saying about the AB's though. I think 2003 WC is a good example. They were strong favourites only to be knocked in the Semi Finals by the Wallabies. They were a dead cert to win though in the bookies minds.