The use of the word 'Football'

[sanzar]

Although not organised very good by myself (I'm new at this) the following is a conversation that started in another unrelated thread and I think it is interesting enough to warrant its own thread. Basically it will be interesting to find out what your view is of the use of the word 'soccer' and the various uses of the word 'football' to describe several sports around the world -BLR.

Don't be a f**kwit unprofessional behaviour or disrepecting the ref isnt exclusive to football (not f**king soccer leave that to the yanks). :toss: Granted Union seems to have alot more respect for referee and refs decisions but its a load of shite that bad behaviour is exclusive to football.

[/b]

Mate, Aussies only started calling soccer football a couple years ago because of the pressure put on them by the finally organised soccer organisation of Aus (thanks ironically to the help given to them by John O'Neil). I've never known soccer to be football... I grew up in Sydney and when we were off to the footy it meant we were off to watch League or Union (mostly league in Sydney though back in the 90s). Same in Brisbane. In Melbourne and the other states footy/football means AFL.
Australia is a country with 4 popular (count em, 4 - not 1 or even 2 like the other 95% of the globe but FOUR) football codes (and each are called football - Australian Rules Football, Rugby Union Football, Rugby League Football and Association Football) and that in my opinion makes us more than exempt from having to follow everyone else in calling it bloody football.

Now you can whinge all you bloody like about it being "the world game" (and might I point out that Aussie Rules was the first official Football code to get organised - before soccer even) and that's what everyone else calls it and all that bullshit (which isn't even true - in Japan 'Football' or "Futto Bo-ru" means Gridiron and 'soccer' is "sakka"), but the fact of the matter is Aussies have NEVER referred to soccer as football, and no amount of pressure from soccer Nazi wankers is gonna change that. So let the rest of the world call it football, that's fine for them cause it's all they bloody play! We're different, we play MANY types of football, and all at a high professional level.

Sorry to go so off topic, but I f***ing hate this bullshit by soccer Nazi's in Aus demanding we all call it 'football'.

Rant end.

 

[BLR]

Sorry to go so off topic, but I f***ing hate this bullshit by soccer Nazi's in Aus demanding we all call it 'football'.
[/b]

It's 100% appropriate however...no hands are used in a game that relies soley on the feet...football basically describes the game, which isn't the case in Union, League and Aussie Rules, which basically use the hands first and foremost and the foot is of secondary importance in most aspects of the game. (less so in Aussie Rules) It is like trying to call a mandarin an orange...sure they look similar and have common aspects yet thier is also the fundamental difference (eg. the 'taste' of the mandarin) which sets it apart from any of the others...man that was an awesome metaphor

 

[sanzar]

I recognise that it is the game where the 'foot' is most used with 'the ball', but that wasn't my point. My point was Aussies have never called it football, so why do we have to start now just cause some soccer loving wankers say so?

 

[BLR]

I recognise that it is the game where the 'foot' is most used with 'the ball', but that wasn't my point. My point was Aussies have never called it football, so why do we have to start now just cause some soccer loving wankers say so?
[/b]

Because it's the name of the sport...'football' is essentially a nickname for the sports 'Rugby Union', 'Rugby League', 'Aussie Rules', 'Gridiron', and whatever other sports that take up the name.....'Football' is the official name of the game...As for the historical use of 'Football', Aussie Rules is a derivative of Rugby Football which was a derivative of Original Football, I mean Aussie Rules lobbied London to get thier game to be taken up world wide instead of Rugby Union rules, it is more political based then anything...I can understand why people call the game football, but with the world opening up sporting wise it is no longer appropriate to keep several sports with the same name....

 

[sanzar]

<div class='quotemain'>
I recognise that it is the game where the 'foot' is most used with 'the ball', but that wasn't my point. My point was Aussies have never called it football, so why do we have to start now just cause some soccer loving wankers say so?
[/b]

Because it's the name of the sport...'football' is essentially a nickname for the sports 'Rugby Union', 'Rugby League', 'Aussie Rules', 'Gridiron', and whatever other sports that take up the name.....'Football' is the official name of the game...As for the historical use of 'Football', Aussie Rules is a derivative of Rugby Football which was a derivative of Original Football, I mean Aussie Rules lobbied London to get thier game to be taken up world wide instead of Rugby Union rules, it is more political based then anything...I can understand why people call the game football, but with the world opening up sporting wise it is no longer appropriate to keep several sports with the same name....
[/b][/quote]

No no, I didn't start this and as far as I'm concerned we're not quite done yet. "Football" is the official name in most countries, yes (not all), but Aussies have always known it as "soccer". Neither is "football" a nickname for the other codes. "Gridiron" is the "nickname" for what is officially called "American Football", Aussie Rules is an abreviation of "Australian Rules Football, and both Rugby League and Union have "Football" as a part of their official names. So no, they're not nicknames, but legitimate parts of their official names. In any case, it's not people calling soccer "football" that I'm desputing, it's the fact that another Aussie is saying "it's football mate, not soccer"... I'm sorry, but go F#CK yourself. That may be the case in other countries, and I'll respect that if I go to them, but in Australia it's never been bloody football and trying to force people to say otherwise just ****** me right the f#ck off! If we wanna call it soccer we bloody well will! If you say football in Australia it doesn't mean "soccer" to the majority of the population, so why should their soccer imperialist agenda be shoved down our bloody throats?!?! I understand it's the global game (as close as you can get), but so f#cking what?! I don't think that means that the can mandate what language we use.

 

[redunderthebed]

Football fans are nor wankers (as a general rule of thumb) nor imperialists or nazis we just ask that we get our code called by its PROPER name just like everyother code more or less.Maybe you need to get your head out of your arse for a minute and stop being insular.

 

[Bullitt]

If you want to be technical, "Football" is a generic term used for team sports where a ball may be kicked on a field of play. Association Football, Rugby Union, Rugby League, Aussie Rules, Galic Football and Gridiron all fall under this banner.

If you go to certain parts of the world, "Football" or "Footy" will be used to describe whichever is the most popular code there... In Europe & South America is refers to Association Football, in America it refers to Gridiron, Australia it varies from Association Football, League and Aussie Rules and in NZ it refers to Union.

As for "Soccer", that comes from Association Football, or "Soccer" for short. This term was actually coined by the English not long after the games inception, so it is a correct term for the sport.

 

[sanzar]

Football fans are nor wankers (as a general rule of thumb) nor imperialists or nazis we just ask that we get our code called by its PROPER name just like everyother code more or less.Maybe you need to get your head out of your arse for a minute and stop being insular.
[/b]

Get my head out of my arse? I don't recall ever telling anyone that they couldn't call it football. How does me defending my right to call the sport by the name most people know it by in my country of origin (and which is the official term in my country of residence - Japan) make me insular? That's the norm where I am and where I'm from. The world is a diverse place, your inability to recognise this makes you the insular one, not me.
After all, YOU'RE the one demanding we all call it 'football', so it's you who needs to get your head out of your arse mate .

If you want to be technical, "Football" is a generic term used for team sports where a ball may be kicked on a field of play. Association Football, Rugby Union, Rugby League, Aussie Rules, Galic Football and Gridiron all fall under this banner.

If you go to certain parts of the world, "Football" or "Footy" will be used to describe whichever is the most popular code there... In Europe & South America is refers to Association Football, in America it refers to Gridiron, Australia it varies from Association Football, League and Aussie Rules and in NZ it refers to Union.

As for "Soccer", that comes from Association Football, or "Soccer" for short. This term was actually coined by the English not long after the games inception, so it is a correct term for the sport. [/b]

Thank you.

 

[Steve-o]

We call it soccer here as well, hectic even the top heads who run the sport call it that.

Our national league is the PSL. Premier Soccer League, and is affiliated with and endorsed by FIFA.

The only people who make a fuss about calling it football are analytical people of close European decent who got a lil too excited after watching Green Street Hooligans

 

[peppers07]

in ireland acosiation football is called soccer rugby football is called rugby rugby leage is caleed rugby leage and gailic football is called football

 

[MunsterMan]

In Ireland
Football = Gaelic Football
Soccer = Association Football

 

[An Tarbh]

In Ireland

Football = Gaelic Football
Football = Football

Nobody I know calls football soccer

 

[peppers07]

In Ireland

Football = Gaelic Football
Football = Football

Nobody I know calls football soccer
[/b]

Well im a twelve year old kid so it may just be people under 16 but every one i know calls it soccer
But munster man seems to think im right

 

[An Tarbh]

I've usually found that those who call it soccer are generally die hard GAA heads with a chip on their shoulder about the English

 

[MunsterMan]

I played both GAA and Soccer underage and everybody at least down here (even the Soccer coaches) calls Association football soccer. Maybe things are different up there, I shouldn't have said all of Ireland when I can only speak for a part of it.

 

[An Tarbh]

Maybe it is a Dublin thing but we've plenty of Culshees living up here and I'm pretty sure most of them call it football as well

 

[melon]

With no exceptions AT ALL, here the indoor version of the game is ALWAYS called Indoor Soccer.

As for the outside game, well its still predominately called Soccer. Read all the reports of games in local papers...they call it soccer. I'd go as far as to say the round ball game is called ****-ball, wog-ball and fag-ball etc more than Football here. (Those aren't terms I support BTW...here anyway )

Whilst I'm all for the name Football to be THE name to be used, soccer will always be the name I will mostly use because thats what I grew up with and played as a primary school child, as is the case with most of the youth in Australia. Soccer was their first game.

I really don't care who calls it what to tell you the truth. I can accept its world wide proper/traditional name is Football, but I can also accept that Soccer is our age-old way to describe the game.

I just thought of something else...Pretend Mick is talking to Roger about Friday night:

Mick: "You coming to the Football tonight?"
Roger: "Ummm maybe...which one are you talking about? Union, League, AFL or Soccer?"

Now assume this. Whilst they both know Football is the proper term to use, they also know that Football/Footy is the generic term to describe all four codes. So in saying this, I think using the term Football with no initial context will cause people confusion. They don't know which code is the one being talked about.

 

[BLR]

Now assume this. Whilst they both know Football is the proper term to use, they also know that Football/Footy is the generic term to describe all four codes. So in saying this, I think using the term Football with no initial context will cause people confusion. They don't know which code is the one being talked about.
[/b]

Exactly why the names should be cleaned up....Football for Association Football, Rugby Union, Rugby League, Gridiron, Australian Rules...easy...it's only going to get worse as I know in Australia Association Football is growing in strenght and most sport analysts think it will become the predominant sport in Australia...

 

[sanzar]

<div class='quotemain'>
Now assume this. Whilst they both know Football is the proper term to use, they also know that Football/Footy is the generic term to describe all four codes. So in saying this, I think using the term Football with no initial context will cause people confusion. They don't know which code is the one being talked about.
[/b]

Exactly why the names should be cleaned up....Football for Association Football, Rugby Union, Rugby League, Gridiron, Australian Rules...easy...it's only going to get worse as I know in Australia Association Football is growing in strenght and most sport analysts think it will become the predominant sport in Australia... [/b][/quote]

I've never heard a sports analyst say that and in all honesty I doubt it ever will be... it'll always have a high level of participation because little kid's over protective parents don't want their kids getting hurt in any of the other codes, but in reality it'll never be the dominant commercial code. AFL is far too dominant and financially powerful in most states and Rugby League has been going from strength to strength since the end of the super league war. Union is in the weakest position in Aus, so that's where soccer could possibly make it's ground, but other than that I don't think soccer will ever really move far beyond being a new European immigrant sport.

Also, I don't think that the use of the word "football" needs to be "cleaned up" any more than it does in the US, SA or NZ... for the most part people know it as 'soccer' and it works just fine in all but the context of fans of different codes crossing over, and even then it's generally a confusion between Rugby League and AFL more than soccer. And in any case "cleaning up" what has been a linguistic fact of Australian English for over 100 years is about as easy as changing people's religion. You can't just walk in and say "right folks! You're not allowed to call it soccer anymore because we've decided that only we're allowed to have the name "football"". That attitude just ****** people off.

 

[BLR]

I've never heard a sports analyst say that and in all honesty I doubt it ever will be...

Union is in the weakest position in Aus, so that's where soccer could possibly make it's ground, but other than that I don't think soccer will ever really move far beyond being a new European immigrant sport.
[/b]

I read alot of the website 'The Roar' where many journalist types mingle with the common people about such issues as the growth of soccer, they have spoke on the website about it and have done so in a few newspaper articles as well, plus Fox Sports News always has analysts speaking about the growth of the A League.

A League is already expanding into the same places Aussie Rules is trying to get into, but a few seasons before Aussie Rules is, into areas where Rugby League usually resides....Union has too much corporate dollars in it to weaken any more, it's at a low point already and to be honest over West it is going from strength to strenght despite the fact alot of Eastern States journalists claim we are in as much of a dire state as they are.

As for being viewed as a European immigrant sport. I don't know over East but I know in WA despite our team being the worst team in the league (and no one really caring about the team much) the interest in the foreign leagues, particularly the EPL has grown ten fold since the World Cup. I was at a little section in the casino at 11pm Sunday night where there was a screen showing the Liverpool game and there was about 100 of AUSTRALIANS glued to the set, cheering and jumping every goal, glued to every moment....this NEVER used to happen in WA, to say the game isn't becoming more popular is just ignorant...and since the A League has taken away the ethnic loyalties many Australians feel comfortable about the new teams and the A League has a clear plan to grow a much larger market in Australia.

Australia is losing much of its Australian-ness, being influenced by the world more, and people travel more, where in the past they wouldn't even leave thier state....it won't happen over night but Football is on the rise, and just because it isn't at the moment, why can it not be a dominant sport?