Tri Nations: All Blacks - Springboks @ Westpac Stadium (30-07-2011, 07:35 GMT)

[wizzdom]

well yeah because im judging him as an allblack overall not just each game hence my statement. maybe you just rate a player too high when they have a mediocre game against a below average squad.

 

[JW.]

The guy's been playing great all season, and yes SA were a bad team but he didn't have a mediocre game, he just had a good solid game. He deserves his spot.

 

[ZeFrenchy]

Nickndz, I think I disagree with you on two things: I think both Kaino and Muliaina had pretty quiet games... Both will have to find form during the 3N to keep their spots (as starters, I don't think any will miss out of the 30 even if they were playing the worst rugby ever).
Kaino in particular I think was kind of confused with the mess in the backrow. He just seemed not to be gaining the metres needed with ball in hand, and he was not dominant in the tackles ir the breakdown. He was outshone by Thomson imo, in a team that had two blinsides.

I though Hore was great, as were Smith and Jane.

 

[smartcooky]

when are they gonna realise Guilford isnt all black material... well not yet anyway.

What!!!!???. He was outstanding last night, helping to create tries as well as finishing them off. His work rate was great as well. You must have been watching a different game from everyone else.

 

[lance2010]

SBW doesn't belong at centre ... pssshhh whatever.

He started off slowly and made some errors trying to force stuff but once he settled in some of his offloads were key for further NZ points, granted at 13 he is ineffective.

Yes but he's clueless on defense and looks lost where to stand,but in saying that he just needs some more game time

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Yes but he's clueless on defense and looks lost where to stand,but in saying that he just needs some more game time

Not really ... he makes his tackles to be fair.

Personally I would have kept him at 12 moved Mills to 13 and Slade back to 15. Would have ensured he would have gotten time in the 12 shirt.

 

[Darwin]

Well, good game to watch. My thoughts on the All Blacks.

1. Wyatt Crockett: What. A. Beast. New Zealand's scrum totally dominated. Nice try in the corner to top it off. 8/10
2. Andrew Hore: Best game for the All Blacks in a while. Scrummaged well, threw in pretty well and he was a monster in the rucks and with the ball. 8/10
3. Ben Franks: Had a bit of a quiet game, but he did his core job pretty well, as the scrum showed. 7.5/10
4. Sam Whitelock: Did pretty well in the lineout, was busy around the breakdown. 7/10
5. Ali Williams: Looked much better than last week. He still hangs out way too much in the backline, but he at least held onto the ball and hit the line hard. 7/10
6. Jerome Kaino: Can't understand why he was taken off for Messam at blindside. Had a very solid game making a lot of tackles. 7.5/10
7. Richie McCaw: His best game this year in my opinion. Was constantly disruptive at the breakdown. My only issue is that he hits the line too much. 7/10
8. Adam Thompson: Looked pretty solid at 8 for most of the game. Still not in the same ball park as Kieran Read, but did well. 7/10
9. Jimmy Cowan: I thought he had his best game in a long time. His delivery was better than usual, and he was a typically good in defense. 8/10
10. Dan Carter: Was amazing with ball in hand. Had a shocking goal kicking game, but he cut the Springboks up on foot. 8.5/10
11. Zac Guildford: Finished oppertunities nicely, which is what he was brought in to do. Very busy around the park. Still don't like him but - 8/10
12. Ma'a Nonu: Good, but still not quite block-busting. He certainly is very heavily marked. 7/10
13. Conrad Smith: Still the best centre in the world. Broke a crap load of tackles, made his passes stick, great defense and was like a flanker in the breakdown. 8.5/10
14. Cory Jane: As I've said 100 times. He needs to be in the RWC squad. He doesn't put a foot wrong and is magic for the All Blacks. Two great tries as well. 9/10
15. Mils Muliaina: My favourite game from him in a long time. He did he is best at and set up Jane and Guildford all day. Played unselfishly and you see how well it worked. 8.5/10

16. Corey Flynn: Did pretty well when he came on. Didn't do much special, but was solid. 6.5/10
17. John Afoa: Was good while he was on the field, shame he got injured so quickly. 6.5/10
18. Jarrad Hoeata: Pretty solid when he came on. Nothing too special, but did nothing wrong. Again had too little game time to judge. 6.5/10
19. Liam Messam: Had a very quiet game when he came on. Didn't have the grunt that Kaino had. 6/10
20. Piri Weepu: For the first time in a few years I though he didn't look as good as Cowan when he came on. Still did pretty well, but not as good as he can play. 6.5/10
21. Colin Slade: Again, did well when he came on the field. Looked pretty good with DC outside him. I wasn't a fan of the shuffling of positions. 7/10
22. Sonny Bill Williams: Probably was the quietest of the centres this game. Did nothig wrong but nothing special really. Certainly doesn't belong at centre. 6/10

Great analysis Nick. I thought Kaino was very quiet, and Messem was actually an improvement once he came on, but apart from that I agree with the majority of your ratings.

when are they gonna realise Guilford isnt all black material... well not yet anyway.

against a third string SA team... pull out the champagne lol... he never positions himself in the right areas his Defence is shotty and he crumbles under pressure... theres no way hes play world cup rugby.

As others have pointed out, you clearly didn't watch the game at all - Guildford had a superb game. Guildford positioning on both attack and defense is as good as any wings in the country, and his defense is far from 'shotty'....

Overall a much improved AB's performance from the Fiji match, though they will want to improve again next week when they face the Aussies. I thought the scoreline was a fair reflection of the dominance the AB's had throughout the match.

Overall a good effort from the forwards. The scrum took a while to gain ascendancy, but the scrum really started to dominate over the last half of the game. Wyatt Crockett again had a good game - it will be interesting to see whether he starts again next week, or they start both the Franks brothers. Not sure what injury John Afoa suffered (in the 5 mins he was on the field) - hopefully it was not to serious. Andrew Hore probably had his best game of the season; his lineout throwing was much better than last weeks, and his work at the breakdown exceptional. He stole the ball at least once, helped force several other turnovers, and certainly slowed South Africa's ball. Both locks were pretty quiet, which was certainly a good thing in Ali Williams case as it meant he wasn't making mistakes! I thought Kaino was very quiet (one very powerful run from the kickoff aside), while Thomson had a busy game - I'm starting to feel more comfortable with him playing at test level now. One of the highlights of the match for me was the performance of McCaw. He did get penalised a few times too many at the breakdown, but he is starting to look like the McCaw of old at the breakdown. His work with the ball in hand was very impressive too; he was powerful off the back of the scrum, and he seemed to break tackles whenever he got the ball.

Cowan had a very good game - I've never seen him use his fend so much, but it was very effective. Carter is starting to look like he is getting back to his best too (goal-kicking aside), and I thought Slade looked comfortable again when he came on. Nonu was again pretty quiet with the ball in hand (despite getting the ball running at lot straighter this week), but it did look as though the South African backs didn't want to get tackled by him and forced the pass a lot when he got close! SBW failed to make much of impact, which didn't surprise me at all, as he always seems to take a while to get into games off the bench. For me he should either be starting or watching from the stands. Conrad Smith again showed his value with solid defense, his deceptive ability to break the line, and his brilliant passing skills. All three outside backs had superb games in my opinion. Muliaina was rock solid from the back, and made a couple of great passes under pressure. Guildford showed what he can offer to the AB's: a phenomenal work-rate, clinical finishing, and brilliant linking skills with the rest of the backline. I was really happy to see Jane perform so well, as an in-form Jane is a good as any wing in the world. With all the back three players that have had a chance for the AB's performing so well it is certainly going to be hard for Henry and co. to select just 5 for the RWC!

 

[Rhyer]

This is stupidly scary.... Jane, Guildford, Crockett, Slade, Messam, Thomson, B.Franks, Hore...

Too. Much. Talent.

They aren't even starting XV players and yet they just brushed the Boks aside like rag dolls. Don't tell me that they were inexperienced Boks because they had class players; Smit, Russouw, Steyn, Pienaar, Jacobs, Chiliboy, van der Linde, Kankowski and de Jongh.

One situation though is the All Blacks lineout, Williams seems unable to perform and they are missing Thorn and Boric I suspect. Although Australia should really look out, they leaked 20 points to the Boks at a full strength Wallaby side while New Zealand only let in 7 with a lot of disruptions and rotating players.

I suspect Wallabies will get hammered 20+, they have great attack but would never pick any of their backline ahead of the All Blacks players if I was selecting a world xv, maybe apart from Genia, because all their defence is extremely bad and they just leak tries.

 

[Rhyer]

Not really ... he makes his tackles to be fair.

Personally I would have kept him at 12 moved Mills to 13 and Slade back to 15. Would have ensured he would have gotten time in the 12 shirt.

Giving Slade opportunities is more important to the All Blacks chances of a world cup than SBW. Keeping an experienced head like Carter at 12 will help shift the pressure from Slade if he starts to get shaky. SBW and his lack of versatility is going to cripple him. Henry won't break up Nonu and Smith and he won't put a specialist 12 on the bench when you can have someone like Toeava or Dagg who can cover 11-15.

 

[Sam Owen]

Yes but he's clueless on defense and looks lost where to stand,but in saying that he just needs some more game time

Well the thing is, you dont see Sonny miss tackles. Another thing is the 'Boks only try came from a determined surge from their captain John Smit who had to get past Nonu to score. Nonu did his best but if you look at the replay and imagine Sonny there, Smit wouldnt have scored IMO. Sonny being a better defender technically and has a lateral advantage, wouldve either 1. wrapped him up or 2. come up with a big hit.

I would ask for some examples of Sonny being 'clueless' but then again Im not the type to watch Rugby to see whos not in the right position for defence.

Other than the time Smit scored, the All Black defence was good.

 

[Rhyer]

SBW is very good and could walk into any other team in the world I think, Australia would love to have someone that physical in what is a rather frail back line but I think it is a real headache for Henry. Four class centres, two spots. Maybe SBW-Kahui can build on something if he does move to the Chiefs? It's C.Smith that is saving Nonu I think right now, if they didn't have that allusive partnership I would really just be tempted to drop Nonu as he is rather ineffective as of late.

 

[smartcooky]

One situation though is the All Blacks lineout, Williams seems unable to perform and they are missing Thorn and Boric I suspect.

Line outs on own throw
NZ: 12 won, 0 lost 100% success rate
SA: 10 won, 3 lost 76.9% success rate

Players lineout stats (won on own throw/stole opponent's throw)
Williams 4/1
Kaino 2/0
Cowan 0/1
Whitelock 1/0
Hoeata 1/1
Messam 1/0
Total 12

Williams led the line-out stats, so I don't know where you got an idea like that.

Apart from Cowan's fumble (and that is hardly the line-out player's fault), they got good clean quick possession from all their line-outs while they regularly disrupted the Boks throws.

 

[Rhyer]

I was meaning Williams work around the park and by line out I mean their locks or what you call them. Williams made a few handling errors and Whitelock was quiet.

 

[smartcooky]

I was meaning Williams work around the park and by line out I mean their locks or what you call them. Williams made a few handling errors and Whitelock was quiet.

OK, it looked like you were suggesting the line-out was poor and it was Williams' fault.

I thought he was OK around the park too.

Williams' other personal stats

Kick/Pass/Run 0/3/6*
Running metres gained - 74* (only three players had more, Jane 105, Guildford 88, Carter 78.)
Defenders beaten - 1
Turnovers won - 1
Tackles made/missed 5/1
Penalties given away - 1

*74 metres run from only 6 runs means he is making on average 12 metres per run. I don't recall him making any really long runs, so that means he is probably reaching the gain line every time he gets the ball.

I don't remember him knocking the ball on at all, and the only handling error I recall was when the threw an intercept pass that was caught by Ashley Johnson.

 

[shtove]

Didn't see the match. Heard it was extreeeemely dull, complete turn off because of lack of competition at set-pieces and breakdown.

I did see the farce of SA in Aus last week.

Is there any point to the 3N this year?

And can we see an end to SA as world champs of total boredom. Please.

 

[wizzdom]

Well i guess well see hopefully he gets game time next week against a backline that is actually world class and ill requote what i said and laugh at you's.

 

[Rhyer]

OK, it looked like you were suggesting the line-out was poor and it was Williams' fault.

I thought he was OK around the park too.

Williams' other personal stats

Kick/Pass/Run 0/3/6*
Running metres gained - 74* (only three players had more, Jane 105, Guildford 88, Carter 78.)
Defenders beaten - 1
Turnovers won - 1
Tackles made/missed 5/1
Penalties given away - 1

*74 metres run from only 6 runs means he is making on average 12 metres per run. I don't recall him making any really long runs, so that means he is probably reaching the gain line every time he gets the ball.

I don't remember him knocking the ball on at all, and the only handling error I recall was when the threw an intercept pass that was caught by Ashley Johnson.

Wow, those are impressive! 74 metres for a line out player is very good! I thought he made a few handling errors, guess I was wrong. Could you please bring up the stats for Samuel Whitelock and Jerome Kaino?

 

[Sneaki]

Was a great game to be at last night, although it was pretty bloody cold! A lot of players had very good games for the AB's. Jane especially was brilliant and that try he scored was right in front of where I was sitting too, probably the biggest cheer of the night went up when he stepped Steyn . Hopefully he can get a crack at the Aussies next week with maybe Gear having a go on the left. On current form for the WC squad I'd pick Jane, Gear, Guildford, Muliaina and Sivivatu as the outside backs, but we'll have to see how they play over the next few weeks I suppose. Toeava is a favourite of the three wise men so he could easily force Sivivatu out I think if he plays reasonably well, but Dagg has his work cut out for him.

Also I'm liking the new jersey, considered buying one but $190 for regular and $220 for RWC jersey??!! Sheesh...

 

[ACT1NUP]

Thank Jebus for P Divvy who shall destory the Boks world cup campaign before ye even starts. My sole aim of the world cup is to shake that mans hand.

 

[Seaton]

Well the thing is, you dont see Sonny miss tackles. Another thing is the 'Boks only try came from a determined surge from their captain John Smit who had to get past Nonu to score. Nonu did his best but if you look at the replay and imagine Sonny there, Smit wouldnt have scored IMO. Sonny being a better defender technically and has a lateral advantage, wouldve either 1. wrapped him up or 2. come up with a big hit.

I would ask for some examples of Sonny being 'clueless' but then again Im not the type to watch Rugby to see whos not in the right position for defence.

Other than the time Smit scored, the All Black defence was good.

I can imagine the type of 'tackle' Sonny-Bill would have attempted in that situation

Would most likely involve a shoulder to the chin with no arms