Trouble in Wales?

[dullonien]

Interesting 'timeline' from the Scarlets on WOL:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/scarlets-ospreys-merger-live-updates-15928082

Basically appears as if the Ospreys were the ones who instigated the merger talks with both the Scarlets and Blues due to the availability of the Liberty becoming an issue (maybe Swans want rid).

Also Scarlets have now stated that the merger is off!

 

[bushytop]

Interesting 'timeline' from the Scarlets on WOL:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/scarlets-ospreys-merger-live-updates-15928082

Basically appears as if the Ospreys were the ones who instigated the merger talks with both the Scarlets and Blues due to the availability of the Liberty becoming an issue (maybe Swans want rid).

Also Scarlets have now stated that the merger is off!

I think that the WRU have basically given the regions 'enough rope to hang themselves' and once no one can come to an agreement on how to consolidate 4 M4 regions into 3, the WRU will step in and dictate how it's gonna be.

 

[dullonien]

I think that the WRU have basically given the regions 'enough rope to hang themselves' and once no one can come to an agreement on how to consolidate 4 M4 regions into 3, the WRU will step in and dictate how it's gonna be.

Based on the Scarlets timeline of events though, it doesn't sound like it was the WRU who initially proposed the reduction to 3 M4 regions + north wales, but a response to the ospreys wanting a merger.

Very different from the anti WRU statements from the ospreys yesterday which seemed to make out that it was the WRU forcing them to merge or be disbanded.

 

[Thingimubob]

Based on the Scarlets timeline of events though, it doesn't sound like it was the WRU who initially proposed the reduction to 3 M4 regions + north wales, but a response to the ospreys wanting a merger.

Very different from the anti WRU statements from the ospreys yesterday which seemed to make out that it was the WRU forcing them to merge or be disbanded.

It's hard to tell where this is coming from.

Been well known for a while that WRU have had a long term plan / agenda for setting up a team in north Wales, but is this just them using the (potential) demise / merger of the Ospreys to get that team set up?

There's been a lot of talk about the north Wales fanbase and investors being there and waiting (think Mark Jones at RGC was quoted saying something similar) so the WRU have clearly done some initial planning / research.

Could be the WRU putting the pressure on the Ospreys from the start, causing them to look into the mergers?

All in all, unsurprisingly, this is a mess...

 

[Amiga500]

So the Ospreys f**ked up and are now looking to blame everyone else?



[edit: Everyone (myself included) is always very quick to blame "the suits" or "the blazers", but quite often majority fault can be found elsewhere.]

 

[bushytop]

So the Ospreys f**ked up and are now looking to blame everyone else?



[edit: Everyone (myself included) is always very quick to blame "the suits" or "the blazers", but quite often majority fault can be found elsewhere.]

It's difficult to know exactly what's happened/happening here as all parties involved have their own agendas and each one will try and spin it in a way to make themselves seem least accountable.

 

[MikeTheNative]

It does look rather embarrassing for the Ospreys, I can't work out why they went so guns blazing yesterday when the truth would have come out eventually.

 

[MikeTheNative]

Ospreys now issue a new official statement and it's quite frankly embarrassing. How they let this go out as statement from the club is beyond me.


"There are three stark realities. Firstly, the concept of an Ospreys-Scarlets merger is dead and the clock is ticking.

"Secondly, Wales was promised a comprehensive review with nothing off the table, but nothing has yet been put on the table.

"Thirdly, the PRB cynically left it to the regions to have a shoot-out for survival with the clear direction that a region in the West should go and make room for a fourth in the North. We are now where we are as a result.

"It's hard to look at this situation and not conclude that a stitch-up of convenience has just unravelled before us all. There isn't a 'plan B', because there was never a 'plan A'.

"Even the PRB has said a western merger was central to their planning, which is frankly mind-boggling. Wishful thinking is not an acceptable replacement for responsible decision-making.

"It's now time for the grown-ups to get back in the room. It's time for experienced strategic planning, robust consultation and a methodical process to emerge that is transparent, timely and carries with it the full range of the sport's stakeholders.

"And this is what I will be discussing with Union and PRB officials over the coming days."

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Ospreys now issue a new official statement and it's quite frankly embarrassing. How they let this go out as statement from the club is beyond me.


"There are three stark realities. Firstly, the concept of an Ospreys-Scarlets merger is dead and the clock is ticking.

"Secondly, Wales was promised a comprehensive review with nothing off the table, but nothing has yet been put on the table.

"Thirdly, the PRB cynically left it to the regions to have a shoot-out for survival with the clear direction that a region in the West should go and make room for a fourth in the North. We are now where we are as a result.

"It's hard to look at this situation and not conclude that a stitch-up of convenience has just unravelled before us all. There isn't a 'plan B', because there was never a 'plan A'.

"Even the PRB has said a western merger was central to their planning, which is frankly mind-boggling. Wishful thinking is not an acceptable replacement for responsible decision-making.

"It's now time for the grown-ups to get back in the room. It's time for experienced strategic planning, robust consultation and a methodical process to emerge that is transparent, timely and carries with it the full range of the sport's stakeholders.

"And this is what I will be discussing with Union and PRB officials over the coming days."

Its becoming awfully bitter like the Western force stitch up by Australia. But this makes even less sense because Wales will retain four teams. How a rugby community can slowly mutilate itself at the same time as the national side has its most successful run of victories in history is mind boggling.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Its becoming awfully bitter like the Western force stitch up by Australia. But this makes even less sense because Wales will retain four teams. How a rugby community can slowly mutilate itself at the same time as the national side has its most successful run of victories in history is mind boggling.

Maybe the Ospreys can take part in Global Rapid Rugby.......

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Maybe the Ospreys can take part in Global Rapid Rugby.......

Or merge with Scarlets and call themselves Western Force and share hosting games with Perth. So obvious when you come to think of it.

 

[Bluemoon]

We should have had 5 big clubs, not 5 regions is my main issue there. Keep the history and continuity instead of the stupid branding. Too late now of course.

Not liking the Blues as a Ponty fan is very different to having a new franchise such as the Opsreys disbanded in favour of a strong traditional club identity.

I think you've misunderstood my comparison - it is the same in that Cardiff maintained a large amount of it's identity and the die hard Ponty fans wouldn't support that once the Warriors became unviable, much as if the O's or the Scarlets fans would have difficulties supporting a team that retained their previous identity over the other. Not happening now anyway, but the whole things has been remarkable.

The problem still is with the 5 big clubs idea is which clubs, and who had the money to fund them at the time. The WRU were asking private business men to fund Welsh rugby, and we got what they paid for because no one else would or could. We are where we are, but what is clear is we need to reduce the number of teams. How that looks, who knows.

 

[Taffelaide]

That is what caused all the issues now. The regions were based on 5 big clubs when they were set up, with most of the teams having the old club's name but also kit colours etc. If it didn't work then, why would it work now?
From what I've seen the Ospreys are closet to the chopping block not because of what they have done of the pitch but because they have the most insecure fiances and since the lack of money is the issue in Wales it does make sense sadly.

They weren't them enough though. They shouldn't have changed it, we ended up with the worst of both worlds.

Anyway no point arguing about the past.
It seems now that there wont be another change. I'm glad as an NW team would be a disaster.

 

[Taffelaide]

It happened when the WRU were too scared to stand up to the big clubs during the move to professionalism, but told the little clubs to stuff it.
What was created was a mosh mash of clubs and regions, which was not going to work.
I personally think that the clubs were too small to be part of the professional era, and this has been shown by the performance of the national team, since there have been only 4 pro teams, but Newport, Cardiff, Llanelli, needed to be put in their place and told, we are creating 5 (at the time) regional pro teams and they are going to be truly regional, (although I thought Llanelli was supposed to be in the West Wales region with Swansea and Neath, at first).
I would have had
West Wales Dragons (Pembrokeshire etc) instead of Llanelli, playing in Red, Gold and Black
Glamorgan Ospreys (West and Mid Glamorgan) as current but adding in the Valleys teams, playing in White, Black and Sea Blue
Gwent Steelers (all of Gwent) no Newport moniker, Royal Blue and Black
Capital Thunder?? No Cardiff moniker, Electric Blue and Neon Yellow.

WHAT THE ACTUAL ****!

 

[Tooting Carmen]

The most risible aspect of this whole debate is when people blame the regions for Wales' failings, limitations and public disaffection (both in terms of playing numbers and viewing numbers), as if the 1990's never happened. While the lack of success in the HC has certainly been disappointing, and I am sure those who originally set up and proposed the regions were expecting better, apart from the utterly useless Dragons they have all had their fair share of silverware, and have provided players with a much more competitive environment than the crumbling and impoverished clubs that so many apparently miss and linger for.

Lest we need to be reminded, the final years of the blessed clubs in the 90's saw rapidly falling attendances at both club and country level, embarrassing defeats such as losing to Canada at home in 1993, and those record losses of 51-0 and 96-13 to France and South Africa respectively in 1998. All of these were, of course, bookended by those home losses to Samoa in the 1991 and 1999 World Cups. Quite simply, the old system had to go. Change was going to come. Since the creation of the regional teams, Wales have won four 6Ns (three of them with Grand Slams), reached a World Cup semi-final and four years later got out of the Group of Death by beating the host nation to reach the quarter-final in the next one.

 

[Amiga500]

Yep - those harking back for the "good old days" or wanting to centralise professional units around 4 clubs* that would struggle to pull in a combined 10k through the gates every weekend need their head examined.

*and f**k off everyone else in the country.

[I wonder would there be a correlation with these people and those that voted Brexit...]

 

[bushytop]

Yep - those harking back for the "good old days" or wanting to centralise professional units around 4 clubs* that would struggle to pull in a combined 10k through the gates every weekend need their head examined.

*and f**k off everyone else in the country.

[I wonder would there be a correlation with these people and those that voted Brexit...]

It wasn't 'just' Wales that voted for Brexit... though we had the most to lose from doing so but I digress, if only Wales had voted for, it would have had little impact on the overall results.

 

[higgik]

WHAT THE ACTUAL ****!

Think you will find that the Moffett plan was, Llanelli/Swansea, Neath/Bridgend, Cardiff, Celtic Warriors and Newport/Gwent.

This was not accepted, by Llanelli as they wanted the same status as Cardiff, (and Newport, as they wanted nothing to do with the rest of Gwent).
Clubs putting themselves before the greater good has caused this.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/chronicling-15-years-welsh-regional-14495876

There is a quote that one of the last games before regionalisation was Swansea, Pontypridd and it had a crowd of 932!!
People have got to realise that professional sport is a business, looking for our hard earned cash.

The WRU got it wrong by allowing some clubs to take over the idea of franchising.
They should now ask for tenders from Clubs with sound business plans as franchises for the Welsh in the Pro14.
They need to include minimum standards on stadia, revenue streams and projections on income.

 

[Amiga500]

It wasn't 'just' Wales that voted for Brexit... though we had the most to lose from doing so but I digress, if only Wales had voted for, it would have had little impact on the overall results.

Oh no, thats not what I meant.

I meant that those who would want to go back to the club scene where somehow in the midsts of time they've forgotten the standard was actually quite crap are likely to be of the same ilk as those that voted Brexit. [Not that Brexit voters consist exclusively of irrational, illogical Welshmen from Pontypridd that forgot their club was pretty much just whipping boys outside of Wales in the past 30 years.]

 

[Taffelaide]

Oh no, thats not what I meant.

I meant that those who would want to go back to the club scene where somehow in the midsts of time they've forgotten the standard was actually quite crap are likely to be of the same ilk as those that voted Brexit. [Not that Brexit voters consist exclusively of irrational, illogical Welshmen from Pontypridd that forgot their club was pretty much just whipping boys outside of Wales in the past 30 years.]

As opposed to the rampant Dragons eh!

You genuinely think that with the professionalism the clubs wouldn't have erm professionalised?? The regions were/are meaningless, Ospreys is not the Welsh equivalent of Ulster ffs.