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Wales v NZ

dullonien said:
Don't really agree there dirty Harry. Deaves has shown enough for long enough at the Ospreys to suggest he's ready. Basham came in against the same opposition a few years back and played the house down.

Perhaps I agree that Deaves won't have the best platform to shine, he'd be better paired with a big abrasive 6, and an 8 in better form than Wainwright, but I'm still backing him to shine as he's a great all round player.

Mann has also proved some people wrong imo. He was excellent last week, and as you said he wasn't as bad v Arg as I initially thought. I still think he's a little small for 6, but his attitude and dog elevstes him slightly.

Edit. This side is getting closer to the one I want to see. Beard or Jenkins need replacing with a lock who's willing to carry some ball. Llewellyn has yet to prove anything. Murray should not be at fullback. This is a huge step in the right direction though!
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And how good a stead has that held Bashams career? Hes probably another example of thrown in, and left to rot.

Thats what i mean about Mann, hes not a destructive 6 like Underhill, hes not a defencive technical like Lydiate was, hes not athletic like Wainright could be there, hes just a converted 7 whos ok at everything, but not great at anything.

I also dont think he was excellent last week, he was improved on Argentina, but lets be honest the oppositiin played a huge part in that. I was dissapointed he didnt stand out more, as i said before the game he was primed for a MOTM performance against Japan.

100% agree with Jenkins and Beard, Beard is past it, and Jenkins looks like hes going through the motions, i think playing with Beard is negatively effecting him, he lioks so much more athletic at Exeter. I want to see both thrown out and give Fender, Davies, Thomas and Williams or at least a combination of them meaningful game time.
 
Safly none of this matters...

NZ will have seen the other 2 games, and seeing a 90% retention rate when kicking the ball to Murray they will be licking their lips at the prospect.

its just such a huge weakness that is never going to be a part of his game, he doesnt have the height, leap, or the mental capacity to want it, and its not going to improve, Winnet has the same issues but at least hes technical class, and competes. I would have wanted to see Rogers there, hes done well at Scarlets at 15 when given the chance, Murrays ability from broken play just doesnt work at int level, you dont get the spaces often enough
 
dirty harry said:
And how good a stead has that held Bashams career? Hes probably another example of thrown in, and left to rot.

Thats what i mean about Mann, hes not a destructive 6 like Underhill, hes not a defencive technical like Lydiate was, hes not athletic like Wainright could be there, hes just a converted 7 whos ok at everything, but not great at anything.

I also dont think he was excellent last week, he was improved on Argentina, but lets be honest the oppositiin played a huge part in that. I was dissapointed he didnt stand out more, as i said before the game he was primed for a MOTM performance against Japan.

100% agree with Jenkins and Beard, Beard is past it, and Jenkins looks like hes going through the motions, i think playing with Beard is negatively effecting him, he lioks so much more athletic at Exeter. I want to see both thrown out and give Fender, Davies, Thomas and Williams or at least a combination of them meaningful game time.
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Not sure Basham's issues has anything to do with being thrown in too soon, that's a lazy conclusion to make. He was exceptional vs NZ and SA when he made his international debut, and continued to perform for a while after at regional level.

His issue has been a combination of injury, discipline, and playing in a poor Dragons side that must suck the confidence of all but the very tough mentally. His move to Cardiff also left him a little ostracised during the last 6 months of his Dragons career, and it's taking some time for him to bed in at Cardiff with their strength in depth in the backrow. Consistency is also an issue, but that's not an issue Deaves struggles with.
 
dullonien said:
Not sure Basham's issues has anything to do with being thrown in too soon, that's a lazy conclusion to make. He was exceptional vs NZ and SA when he made his international debut, and continued to perform for a while after at regional level.

His issue has been a combination of injury, discipline, and playing in a poor Dragons side that must suck the confidence of all but the very tough mentally. His move to Cardiff also left him a little ostracised during the last 6 months of his Dragons career, and it's taking some time for him to bed in at Cardiff with their strength in depth in the backrow. Consistency is also an issue, but that's not an issue Deaves struggles with.
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I mean your not wrong, but lets be honest, the impact v Canada exploded him onto the scene, then he had the MOTM v NZ, but he was playing in a familiar Dragons back row, in a beaten team. His career slowly declined from there, through mismanagement was a large part of that. He was thrust by Pivac, Gatland didnt rate him, and even now media talk about his explosive abilities, dynamic carryong and technicql defence and hes just unlucky not to be selected (over and over by numerous (4?) Head coaches). Truth is Basham was never top int quality, hes a classy rounded player, but lacks the physicality and dogg needed. We could probably go through another dozen players of the Pivac era that were similar, and mismanaged. Mcnichol, Mcleod, maybe Watkin too...

Pivac was notoriously poor man manager, due to communication issues, and this move in Deaves seems like a Pivac style decision
 
am yet to find anyone that can explain what exactly Razor is trying to achieve

finally gives love a run...but also ALB, finally gives Dmac the 10 jersey...but drops roigard


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Kiwiwomble said:
i think youre right, combined with just some giving old boys caps.....there is very little to be learnt from these combinations
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I couldnt agree more, Razor seemed like an innovative progressive type who would take bold risks and elevate NZ back to dominance... i think we have all been duped by his personality, he is deemed a great coaching character, but his selections and actions dont seem to match, hes almost the opposite Contepomi who doesnt get the credit he deserves IMO
 
Ddanno said:
There's not much to be learned from playing Wales at all right now.

Sorry, but it's true.
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try not to take any game for granted, even if we did take the win for granted...what does running out ALB tell us, hes not the future or anything....we've ended up running the new guys like proctor against the tough teams....and hes been critiqued for being less than perfect....and then we run the old hat out in an easier game...
 
Kiwiwomble said:
try not to take any game for granted, even if we did take the win for granted...what does running out ALB tell us, hes not the future or anything....we've ended up running the new guys like proctor against the tough teams....and hes been critiqued for being less than perfect....and then we run the old hat out in an easier game...
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YOur 100% right, he hasnt been AB standard, thisnwould be his chance to really excel...
Ddanno said:
There's not much to be learned from playing Wales at all right now.

Sorry, but it's true.
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100% accurate. Japan, Georgia etc are both on par currently.
 
It's because Robertson knows that you need the old heads to come play at the principality with the roof closed. The anthem, the best fans, grown men throwing up over small children in the row in front of them. Put inexperienced players into that fiery cauldron and it'll be a long day for the New Zealand All Blacks.
 
Kiwiwomble said:
try not to take any game for granted, even if we did take the win for granted...what does running out ALB tell us, hes not the future or anything....we've ended up running the new guys like proctor against the tough teams....and hes been critiqued for being less than perfect....and then we run the old hat out in an easier game...
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Fair point. But they only beat Japan by a dead end point.
 

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