• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

[Wales] What happened to this star-spangled side ?

How would Wales fans feel about Kingsley Jones becoming Wales HC?
Will have experience of coaching a national side in a WC by the end of the year (though the Russian set up will be a tad different to Wales, I imagine) and has been a fowards and head coach at club level too
 
Wow Dai has fallen from grace only a season or so ago he was talked as a possible candidate and I think I remember yourself saying he was not bad a coach ... how times have changed. Dai is not a bad coach, has brought through a number of youngsters who have gone onto play for Wales for the Blues. Sadly for him his career has stagnated at the Blues.

Looking at this season, I don't see how Dai Young can manage an international team.
I think everyone was expecting big things from Cardiff this season, which evidently did not materialize.
Dai has had his moments (2009 HC, Amlin) but it has hardly been consistent. I feel that this is true for every Welsh club...

Definitely no for Kingsley Jones. Any chance we can get Graham Henry back from the Kiwis?
 
Ryan Jones at lock and Andy Powell anywhere are not superstars.

I'm surprised no one's mentioned Warren Gatland yet.

Also, Wales' back-row is poo as a whole*, they've got no outside centre and their first-choice tight five is fairly good but injuries reveal zero back-up on the same level. Plus Philipps and Jones have no real back up if not playing well.

*Which is to say Warburton's very good, they've got a bunch of young pups who are still learning (I include Lydiate) and the likes of Powell, Jones and Thomas are increasingly not fit for purpose. One International back-row + Two not quite there currently = poo, due to the general strength of backrows.

Lydiate is the most under-rated player in Europe if you ask me. He smashes ruck after ruck and player after player, make a decent amount of yards yet never gets the recognition he deserves. And, as said, Faletau is still learning but is also a brilliant player. Ryan Jones is still up for it, even if Powell is busy being Andy Powell and JT is a long, long way past his best and has been for many years.

As far as an attack coach goes, I think Mark Jones is worth a look. The Scarlets have always looked to play exciting Rugby, but not until this (last) season have they managed to make it work. (Not for a while, anyway) Is it any coincidence that this happens this happens to have been the same season in which Mark Jones became skills & attack coach? Maybe, but I'd give him a go anyway. As said, he'd be better than Howley.
 
Two words summs it all up for me : confidence and momentum.

When we gain a little confidence, we start playing well (2005, 2008), and momentum takes over. We've had bugger all of either in the past few years, at regional or international level. Whilst I think Gatland is far from perfect, he's not a miracle worker either, and when the players are making basic errors in every game due to a lack of confidence, we're always gonna loose the tight games.

Gatland's gameplan has to come into the equation aswell, because it simply doesn't suit the players style, however I can see why he's done it to some degree with Fiji and Samoa in our WC pool. He wants to avoid what happened in 2007, where we were all show and no grit. He has failed to find a balance though, and that's a big worry. I also lay some blaim on Rob Howley as attack coach, he was a reletively unprooven coach when he came in to the international set-up and a feel he needs to go back to learn his trade at a region.

I would personally love Nigel Davies as Wales' attack coach. I think you're a little harsh on him Cymro, and are bundling Gareth Jenkins' failings on him, when in fact Wales' attacking threat during Gareth Jenkins' reign was consistently excellent. It was their lack of forward grunt and defence that let them down. We even outscored Fiji on try's in the final game of the 2007 WC by 5-4. I'd argue that we have superior attacking talent at our disposal now aswell. Nigel Davies is also showing his worth at the Scarlets, as they are one of the most exciting teams in Europe. I don't think he's a great head coach yet by any means, but in my eyes he's got prooven credentials as an attack coach. Saying all of that, I doubt he'd give-up his place at the scarlets to become a member of the backroom staff for Wales, especially considering how he was treated by the WRU last time out.

I think the best thing for Dai Young is to take the Wasps position and show what he can do at a different club. The fact that Wasps aren't the European powerhouses they once were is probably a good thing, as it will take some pressure off Young and allow him to attempt to mould a team capable of returning to the top table of European rugby. He's had to deal with alot of pressure during his time with the Blues. He's got alot to proove before he should be considered for the Wales top job.

Whether or not Gatland stays post WC will all depend on how Wales fare in the Summer. If he stays I think he needs to have a shake-up of his backroom staff and the tactics he amploys. If he goes, I have no idea who should take over. I don't think there are any suitable Welsh candidates at the moment.

Edit. One final thing. I'm a little worried that the U20 WC has also shown that the problems we see within Welsh rugby start at a young age. There is no way that group of talented youngsters should have lost to Fiji. I think it shows that whilst we produce plenty of skillful and talented players, that is very rarely combined with the mental toughness required to succeed at the top level. Henson, Hook, Phillips, Biggar, Jon Davies, Gareth Owen etc. etc. have all shown massive promise during their careers, but have all shown mental frailties that have halted their progress to some degree. Matthew Morgan seems to be following a similar path, combining moments of pure genius with complete, well moments of madness, brain farts I suppose. Two recent players who have shown their mental toughness are Sam Warburton and Leigh Halfpenny imo. Nothing seems to faze them, and that's one of the reasons I've been so excited by their potential. And guess what, they were part of an U20's team that finished 4th at a WC, instead of 7th or 8th. I feel our youth system needs adressing, and more emphasis needs to be given to the mental attitudes of our young hopefulls. They shouldn't be so scared of facing NZ that they ship 92 points and fail to register a single point. The past failings of Welsh rugby seems to weigh down heavily on these young players, and they completely freeze when facing NZ, Fiji etc. despite imo having enough talent to genuinely compete.
 
Last edited:
I think there not dangerous enough in attack. They seem to do the same set play every phrase. Maybe a new set play with a new back line Maybe 15:LEIGH HALFPENNY 14:GEORGE NORTH 13:SCOTT WILLIAMS 12:JONATHAN DAVIES 11:ALED BREW OR CHRISTIAN PHILLIPS 10: MATTHEW MORGAN 9:RHYS WEBB.8 TOBY FALAUTE 7:SAM WARBURTON 6:RYAN JONES 5:ALUN WYN JONES 4:BRADLEY DAVIES 3:GETHIN JENKINS 2:MATTHEW REES 1:ADAM JONES
I think the lights of shane williams,lee byrne,mike phillips,gavin henson,james hook was very good but at the moment there rugby is school type and slow and mistakey. I do agree with you up there they are exspected 2 do stuff they did 2 years ago. Its time 4 a change
.......

Do you think Lee Byrne, Mike Philips and James Hook are old school?
 
Saying a player is a "superstar" and it being true are 2 different things. Many of these players have failed to perform at club or international level this season. The only Welsh players you could realistically call superstars are Hook, Williams, Adam Jones and Jenkins
 
See I think we need Shane, Hook and Roberts in the backs. They create the most space for the team and are all solid in defence. I like the look of your forwards but personally i'd have; 10. J Hook, 11. S Williams 12. J Davies 13. J Roberts 14. G North/ L Halfpenny 15. L Byrne/ A Brew
 
See I think we need Shane, Hook and Roberts in the backs. They create the most space for the team and are all solid in defence. I like the look of your forwards but personally i'd have; 10. J Hook, 11. S Williams 12. J Davies 13. J Roberts 14. G North/ L Halfpenny 15. L Byrne/ A Brew

I'd rather see Stoddart at FB than Brew! Halfpenny is still our best option on the right wing. He lacks George's bulk but is a very elusive runner. His defence is also better than North's, who often seems caught out of position in defence. I think Leigh is our second-choice fullback, and he could see a game or two at 15 this August.

Roberts would be a better option at inside centre, with Jonathan Davies outside. JD has more pace, which is better utilised at 13, while Roberts' size is an advantage at 12. Then again, they can switch between inside and outside depending on the play. Hang on, that would require our backline even having a plan. Apart from that, I'd agree with your choices.
For the opening match against the Boks, I'd like to see this: (Possible SA side included)

 
De Villiers will have a feel day with Hook at 10 ... just saying.
 
De Villiers will have a feel day with Hook at 10 ... just saying.

In what respect? He (Hook) is certainly more mobile than Jones, and de Villiers will have to watch Roberts.
Last thing Jaque Fourie wants is JdV letting Jaw and Foxy through midfield.
 
In what respect? He (Hook) is certainly more mobile than Jones, and de Villiers will have to watch Roberts.
Last thing Jaque Fourie wants is JdV letting Jaw and Foxy through midfield.

JdV loves picking Hook off.

Jones is currently in possession of the 10 shirt, Hook is not a 10 and I don't buy the argument that Hook gets the backline moving. During the Baabaas game Jones got the backline moving from the service of Phillips, won't buy the argument that he can't get the backline moving, granted he's not as fast he does attack the line when he can.
 
JdV took one off him one, IIRC. He has done it to everyone, the intercept king ;)
Lets not forget Jones' intercept that cost us V England last year.
Stephen Jones has actually played some of his best rugby of us off the bench recently. He plays like he wants to get the starting spot back, and a more aggressive game like the Wellies of 2005.

I don't see how Stephen Jones game control is any better or worse than Hook's. They can both do the job fine, but Hook offers a running option at 10.
What we really need is a proper midfield. It will take time (and a gameplan) but I think Roberts and Davies can work well together.
A proper scrumhalf is needed first- Dwayne Peel.

I actually thought Priestland was as good as Jones v Barbarians (granted, the game was starting to lose it's shape), he did impress me from his limited time.
Scott Williams is one for the future. He is what we need, a naturally quick outside centre. Decent sized lad as well, he certainly took his chance and stuck his hand up for future selection.

I definitely hope Hook, Byrne, and Phillips improve in France, like Gareth Thomas and Stephen Jones. I just wish Peel was off to USAP with Hook.
 
I totally agree here Cymro, lots of people seem to forget that he has poor game control at fly half and can lose control of tight games, also I think he is a good centre (was in the Magners League dream team for 09/10) and is a good partner for Jamie Roberts

do you remember 2008 when he gave away an intercept against South Africa in a match we lost by about 5 or points?

I hope though his spell at Perpignan will improve Hook as an all round fly half, like Stephen Jones' spell at Clermont made him a much better player than he was before

For me Hook's career at 10 will be made or broken in France. I hope that he comes back from France a much better fly half, but currently he is not better than Jones and does not merit a place infront of Jones.
 
For me Hook's career at 10 will be made or broken in France. I hope that he comes back from France a much better fly half, but currently he is not better than Jones and does not merit a place infront of Jones.

Perhaps. He will have a very good midfield with him (Mermoz and Marty), and just needs a quality scrumhalf in front of him.
I wouldn't say Stephen Jones is fully deserving of the spot either. His performances aren't bad, but nothing really stands out.
 
Held the game well against the Barbarians.

Well, a Barbarians match is hardly a the type of game where game management is key.
Brock James was pretty good but I wouldn't put him anywhere near the Wallabies.

Both Jones and Hook have had to deal with Phillips for the past few months, so perhaps they deserve another look with a different scrumhalf.
I'd still like to see Nicky Robinson given a go, but I don't think that is very likely.
 
I'm agreeing with Draggs on this one. I think Hook is a modern game fly half and has his experience of a class centre to thank for that. Stephen Jones, personally I think he is a very old fashioned rugby player, and I think this is what makes and breaks him. He just can't see the same options as Hook can, especially of running plays.
 
I'm agreeing with Draggs on this one. I think Hook is a modern game fly half and has his experience of a class centre to thank for that. Stephen Jones, personally I think he is a very old fashioned rugby player, and I think this is what makes and breaks him. He just can't see the same options as Hook can, especially of running plays.

Sorry you are talking a load of ********.

Hook hardly lit the match at 10 when he played for Wales in the 6 Nations.
 
Hook hardly lit the match at 10 when he played for Wales in the 6 Nations.

True. Stephen Jones was no better or worse.
I do think we will be better of playing Hook, as he will be involved for years to come, and offers another dimension (not that it will be used)
Why don't we just say 'screw it!' and start Matthew Morgan at 10 and have Stoddart at fullback? Tries will start coming, but for which side?
 
I will believe Hook will become a 10 once he settles in France, and I see Jones retiring after the RWC to be fair. Tovey is another candidate that is forgotten at 10.
 

Latest posts

Top