Warm Up Match 3: Crusaders v British & Irish Lions (Christchurch)

[Zootalaws]

Against a form Crusaders squad, you need two things to win: luck, more luck. As a Hurricanes fan born and bred, I've seen us come in behind them all too many times.

They've been at 1 or 2 in NZ for decades, for a very good reason: they excel at the basics, which allows them the opportunity to let the flash boys loose. From what we have seen of the Lions, they don't excel at the basics. I don't anticipate a close game, or a Lions win, sorry.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Should be a good game, the Crusaders team looks really strong, with the only potential weakness being Havilli at 12, a position he hasn't played at all this year.

This and the hurricanes will undoubtedly be the biggest tests for the Lions before the actual AB games, time enough for them to sort out their line-up and cut a bit of the dead wood. I think it'll be in the Lions best interest if AWJ has a bad game.

Actually I think the Hurricanes will be one of the easier matches the Lions play - neither the Hurricanes nor the Chiefs will have their All Blacks, and they may well not have their Maori All Blacks either.

I'd say the difficulty of games is: All Blacks > Crusaders > Maori All Blacks > Highlanders > Blues > Chiefs/Hurricanes (with the Maori players available the Chiefs will be stronger, otherwise the Hurricanes match will probably be tougher) > Barbarians.

 

[valley commando]

Not exactly excited with a Teo/Davies partnership but I'll give them a chance, other centre's haven't exactly set the world alight. Jones and I think Hogg need big games after the first game. Hopefully North get's some good ball to attack with but with the centre partnership I'm not sure about that. While not the back row I would start the first test with I'm still looking forward to seeing them play.

I would pick this centre partnership for the tests and if they both remain fit I think they will be Gats choice as well, I am worried about this back row and dont see any of these starting a test

 

[valley commando]

Not exactly excited with a Teo/Davies partnership but I'll give them a chance, other centre's haven't exactly set the world alight. Jones and I think Hogg need big games after the first game. Hopefully North get's some good ball to attack with but with the centre partnership I'm not sure about that. While not the back row I would start the first test with I'm still looking forward to seeing them play.

I would pick this centre partnership for the tests and if they both remain fit I think they will be Gats choice as well, I am worried about this back row and dont see any of these starting a test

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Side pretty much as expected,
Going to be tough, expecting a bit if a kicking tbh

Don't like AWJ as captain. Nothing to do with him bring Welsh but showed in the 6N that he can't control his players/has no authority/respect over them. Good player but he's no leader.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

If Lions lose to Maori I can officially say Munster>Lions, although I already believe that to be honest.

Leicester beat SA and the Maoris so how about dem apples.

 

[Groundhog]

Leicester beat SA and the Maoris so how about dem apples.

Ain't nothing like the real thing baby

We've also done Australia to be fair.
Just on the Lions team. It's pretty competitive, but I don't like the centre balance very much. Think the ball won't get past the centres very often, which is a shame because that back three can cause damage. Just hoping another good player doesn't randomly display shocking form.

 

[MikeTheNative]

Side pretty much as expected,
Going to be tough, expecting a bit if a kicking tbh

Don't like AWJ as captain. Nothing to do with him bring Welsh but showed in the 6N that he can't control his players/has no authority/respect over them. Good player but he's no leader.

I agree with this, O'Mahony is the better choice. I didn't understand people complaining about Owens being captain last time but as you said he had a rough time in the 6 nations as captain.

 

[HenryChinaski]

If Lions lose to Maori I can officially say Munster>Lions, although I already believe that to be honest.

You're not wrong. Until this lions team start to recognise one another, the top 10 British club sides are all better than the lions.

 

[valley commando]

Side pretty much as expected,
Going to be tough, expecting a bit if a kicking tbh

Don't like AWJ as captain. Nothing to do with him bring Welsh but showed in the 6N that he can't control his players/has no authority/respect over them. Good player but he's no leader.

Agreed AWJ wasn't at his best as captain in the 6N, although when he has captained sides before he has been okay, however he is coming back from injury and I would have preferred that he was left to concentrate on his own game without the distraction of the captains armband, as it stands he is a long way off test selection, however I have seen him come back from injury before and he will show improvement on Saturday.

 

[valley commando]

You're not wrong. Until this lions team start to recognise one another, the top 10 British club sides are all better than the lions.

Ridiculous statement although I suspect tongue in cheek, Gatland has a limited time to get a test side from this squad, he will already have an idea of the nucleus of the test team and he will get the team to gel, whether or not they will be good enough to challenge the AB's is another story, it seems to me that there are a fair few on here that would like to see the Lions fail, which is sad, these tours are welcome respite from the tribal rivalry we all show come 6N and WC, where we all get chance to stand shoulder to shoulder against our southern foes.
If the Lions ever cease to exist in their current guise then another nail will be driven into rugby's coffin, it already feels like we are getting to close to the soccer mentality with some rugby followers not bothered about the history and what makes our game so great.

 

[HenryChinaski]

Ridiculous statement although I suspect tongue in cheek, Gatland has a limited time to get a test side from this squad, he will already have an idea of the nucleus of the test team and he will get the team to gel, whether or not they will be good enough to challenge the AB's is another story, it seems to me that there are a fair few on here that would like to see the Lions fail, which is sad, these tours are welcome respite from the tribal rivalry we all show come 6N and WC, where we all get chance to stand shoulder to shoulder against our southern foes.
If the Lions ever cease to exist in their current guise then another nail will be driven into rugby's coffin, it already feels like we are getting to close to the soccer mentality with some rugby followers not bothered about the history and what makes our game so great.

How can you not understand this!
I love the lions and am a huge supporter of them. All I'm saying is that the process of bonding and binding as a team is the key to success. Becoming a team is hugely important, and until the guys are used to each other the reality is that they will be vulnerable to losses against teams who on paper shouldn't stand a chance. That's why they lost to the Blues. If the lions team had played on Wednesday against the scarlets, Exeter chiefs, Leinster, muster, wasps, saracens, Ospreys or Ulster, they would likely have lost. Because until they have played together enough and trained enough and have tactics down, there are better TEAMS out there. Whereas a month down the line, that might not be true anymore. Ok?

 

[Zootalaws]

what is it with the NZ love in for dagg? I find him somewhat overrated among NZ pundits. Ben Smith head and shoulders above him, but seen ABs selectors opt for smith on the wing at the expense of Dagg at 15. I don't get it. Not like NZ don't have exciting enough wingers to afford smith his proper role at 15. You fella's love Dagg.

He's innovative, but I'm with you - Ben Smith is the best 15 we've got.

I suspect that the both of them together offer more gameplay options for the coaches, and make it damned hard for opposing teams to know where the attack is coming from. I view Izzy the same way I viewed Conrad Smith - doesn't look fast, doesn't look flash, but time after time he leaves his opponent flat footed and a gaping hole to be exploited.

 

[Caitlyn Jenner]

Actually I think the Hurricanes will be one of the easier matches the Lions play - neither the Hurricanes nor the Chiefs will have their All Blacks, and they may well not have their Maori All Blacks either.

I'd say the difficulty of games is: All Blacks > Crusaders > Maori All Blacks > Highlanders > Blues > Chiefs/Hurricanes (with the Maori players available the Chiefs will be stronger, otherwise the Hurricanes match will probably be tougher) > Barbarians.

The Canes will definitely have their Maoris (the games a 10 days apart), the chiefs most likely will not (games are 3 games apart.)
So, the Canes will definitely be tougher...
Possible/Likely Canes team:
1. C. Eves
2. R. Riccitelli
3. Toomaga-Allen
4. M. Fatialofa
5. V. Fafita
6. B. Shields
7. C. Gibbins
8. R. Prinsep
9. TTT
10. Black
11. Goosen/Lam
12. Aso
13. Proctor
14. Jane
15. NMS

That is still a bloody strong team! Obviously the halves are a big step down, but other than that there's really not a whole lot of a drop off in class across this side. I'd say they're definitely better than the team that the Chiefs will be able to put out and maybe on par eith the Landers. That Landers line-up will also be bloody strong though, I think the only actual regular starters that they're gonna be missing are the 2 Smiths...

 

[valley commando]

How can you not understand this!
I love the lions and am a huge supporter of them. All I'm saying is that the process of bonding and binding as a team is the key to success. Becoming a team is hugely important, and until the guys are used to each other the reality is that they will be vulnerable to losses against teams who on paper shouldn't stand a chance. That's why they lost to the Blues. If the lions team had played on Wednesday against the scarlets, Exeter chiefs, Leinster, muster, wasps, saracens, Ospreys or Ulster, they would likely have lost. Because until they have played together enough and trained enough and have tactics down, there are better TEAMS out there. Whereas a month down the line, that might not be true anymore. Ok?

I take your point, although I still feel its unlikely there would be more than 2 or 3 Brit or Irish sides that would be able to beat the Lions squad in a pre tour match, it is perhaps a good idea to have more warm up games and a more sensible schedule. The whole season needs re- structure, I would prefer to see all comps completed in blocks - the domestic league 1st, European club comps 2nd and then the 6N. In WC years I would like to see the 6N immediately precede the Wc

 

[Stumpy]

I take your point, although I still feel its unlikely there would be more than 2 or 3 Brit or Irish sides that would be able to beat the Lions squad in a pre tour match, it is perhaps a good idea to have more warm up games and a more sensible schedule. The whole season needs re- structure, I would prefer to see all comps completed in blocks - the domestic league 1st, European club comps 2nd and then the 6N. In WC years I would like to see the 6N immediately precede the Wc

The problem with blocks for European cup is travel for fans, it was hard enough with 2 and 3 weeks to organise travel and accommodation for the knockout games let alone one week which would be the case if you did it in a block

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Can't see a win for the Lions, centres won't be able to create anything!

 

[ALJ]

Can't see a win for the Lions, centres won't be able to create anything!

I'd be interested to know if anyone is predicting a win for the Lions in this game tbh.

I actually think we'll be a bit more creative and get a few points on the board but I just don't think we can outscore them.

 

[HenryChinaski]

Can't see a win for the Lions, centres won't be able to create anything!

True, but Te'o has proven the most successful centre of all by far. A win here is possible providing we dependably get over the gain-line and don't kick like retards.

I just wish Daly would get a run there too though.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

It looks more like a test match day squad rather than the starting XV. Of the starters I'd say that only North, Farrell (hopefully at 10) , Murray, Furlong and Faletau are bolted on to start in the tests. Lots of shirts up for grabs. Hopefully some will play their way in to the test team rather than out of it.

Teo's interesting. Went well against the Barbarians, but maybe a bit of a flat track bully. Looked a little short of gas. But I can see the interest, we have lots of good players, but few real game breakers. Wish Tuilagi could be fit again one day......honest toil and commitment is great, but only takes you so far.