We Need To Talk About Wasps

[Mumbles119]

Followed Wasps for 30 years…

I don't know how to feel or what to do next

 

[will311293]

Followed Wasps for 30 years…

I don't know how to feel or what to do next

same here, 20 years roughly and watched every game (mostly on tv). They say they are going to keep going and i will keep with any team that re-emerges but im not sure i can support another premiership rugby club.

Its the hope that kills you and some of the vile abuse coventry fans are handing out is sickening to people who have lost everything to support.

There were some interesting statements made as well within the Wasps statement.

- A lack of engagement with a championship that didn't want Wasps.
- Difficulty securing investors who wanted to do due dilligence but didn't feel they had time to execute
- RFU continously denied extensions and prevented clarity
- Ring fencing made investors baulk at idea and lack of promotion back to Prem.
- £4m deficit in funding b/n champ and prem
- Kit deal, Significant sponsor from global brand, choice of grounds sorted
- strong local authority support for own stadium (to increase outside income apart from rugby)
- 232 players and 37 coaches interested
- Paying rugby creditors in a timely fashion seemed a challenge.
- Rugby creditors will not be paid for foreseeable future due to Wasps Holdings Ltd still being in administration

- Team will continue ensure Wasps continues history in a sustainable rugby environment that shares the vision and value the new club aspires too.
- Silence was deliberate and necessary.
- Our Exit from RFU - you will hear from us soon.




So this is the interesting bit using "Our Exit from RFU", "You will hear from us soon". This makes me think that the owners suspected this and something is a foot elsewhere.
I wonder if Wasps owners are in conversation with a league outside the RFU. It seems odd that they would use such strong language and state all these significant pieces in place just to be culled.

I am clutching at straws i know but have to hope for something.

The last statement is for RFU and in particular Bill Sweeny and Simon Massie Taylor - Just resign already, you are both an embarrassment. You are letting clubs slip into the abyss and have not shown once you can manage the RFU or Prem rugby effectively.

England rugby and HQ has been pretty lethargic, grass root rugby is at its lowest point with dozens of fixtures cancelled every week, I'd argue you have turned twickenham into a circus social event and we have huge numbers of unemployed coaches/players and all you both care is about lining your pockets.

How on earth Bill Sweeny can stand there with his incredibly large salary, taking a pay rise during Covid-19 effected seasons and having nearly let 3 clubs go to the wall (having sat in an official meeting saying he wouldnt) astounds me.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Think that phrasing is just because they're technically not part of the rugby systems ATM, they have to reapply and that's why they'll rejoin at the lowest level, not that they're going to try and join the URC or whatever

 

[will311293]

Think that phrasing is just because they're technically not part of the rugby systems ATM, they have to reapply and that's why they'll rejoin at the lowest level, not that they're going to try and join the URC or whatever

I dunno... i've heard stranger ideas. I am completely clutching at straws but i think if they have lined all that up i'd be surprised if its abandoned.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Would it work if they joined the URC? Could be the start of many clubs leaving the prem the way it is going down the toilet. The English exiles

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Why would the URC want them?
They don't even have a stadium

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Why would the URC want them?
They don't even have a stadium

I wonder if they'd have to buy in to the URC with a big cash bond or something. Then they'd have to get a squad and then pay to travel to all the locations.

Can't see it working.

 

[stus768]

Why would the URC want them?
They don't even have a stadium

And the market the URC want to break into is London, not the midlands.

 

[McTallshort]

Interesting point he makes about ring fencing the premiership and how Wasps got preferential treatment compared to other clubs like Richmond

 

[Mumbles119]

Errr… what now…

(Sorry paywalled)

Wasps handed sensational late lifeline

Exclusive: Discussions have taken place within RFU and Premiership to keep the brand alive with prospect of a franchise Championship place

www.telegraph.co.uk

A few excerpts below. Just media bluff and bluster?

Wasps handed sensational late lifeline

Exclusive: Discussions have taken place within RFU and Premiership to keep the brand alive with prospect of a franchise Championship place

Wasps could be handed an incredible lifeline to prevent the club from becoming extinct, Telegraph Sport can reveal.

It is understood that discussions are taking place at a senior level within Premiership Rugby and the Rugby Football Union about finding a process in which the club could be offered a 'franchise' place to return to the second tier of English rugby within the next five years.

With both the Premiership and Championship set to move to a franchise basis as part of the new professional game agreement with the RFU to be signed next year, Wasps could be offered the opportunity to apply for a franchise once the new leagues have "become established."

"We need brands like Wasps and Worcester in the Championship and there must be a way in the medium term to bring them back more quickly by restructuring the championship to refranchise them in the right place in the country," said one senior Premiership source.

Another senior source said: "We need strong brands to make Prem 2 viable."

 

[stus768]

Errr… what now…

(Sorry paywalled)

Wasps handed sensational late lifeline

Exclusive: Discussions have taken place within RFU and Premiership to keep the brand alive with prospect of a franchise Championship place

www.telegraph.co.uk

A few excerpts below. Just media bluff and bluster?

Wasps handed sensational late lifeline

Exclusive: Discussions have taken place within RFU and Premiership to keep the brand alive with prospect of a franchise Championship place

Wasps could be handed an incredible lifeline to prevent the club from becoming extinct, Telegraph Sport can reveal.

It is understood that discussions are taking place at a senior level within Premiership Rugby and the Rugby Football Union about finding a process in which the club could be offered a 'franchise' place to return to the second tier of English rugby within the next five years.

With both the Premiership and Championship set to move to a franchise basis as part of the new professional game agreement with the RFU to be signed next year, Wasps could be offered the opportunity to apply for a franchise once the new leagues have "become established."

"We need brands like Wasps and Worcester in the Championship and there must be a way in the medium term to bring them back more quickly by restructuring the championship to refranchise them in the right place in the country," said one senior Premiership source.

Another senior source said: "We need strong brands to make Prem 2 viable."

https://archive.is/EhVt7

Full article

 

[will311293]

Peter Scrivener, who was part of Wasps board trying to resurrect club spoke on twitter about this as did chris wright. General finding is that this is rubbish and the RFU are trying to cover their backs.

 

[McTallshort]

Peter Scrivener, who was part of Wasps board trying to resurrect club spoke on twitter about this as did chris wright. General finding is that this is rubbish and the RFU are trying to cover their backs.

Right, just for me please explain what in your opinion the RFU have done wrong here? Genuine question, I'm really interested in your thoughts

Apologies if I've asked this before

 

[will311293]

Right, just for me please explain what in your opinion the RFU have done wrong here? Genuine question, I'm really interested in your thoughts

Apologies if I've asked this before

So in my opinion... They originally did anything wrong, we asked them to keep clubs to financial regulations and they have... some what.

The problem i have with the RFU is that the article recently posted via the telegraph stated that "The RFU also attempted to help the club secure funding, including introducing Holland to a potential investor and holding meetings to attempt to get the funding in place. But uncertainty about the future structure of the top two tiers and whether or not promotion and relegation would be retained proved to be a stumbling block"

"The RFU rejected Wasps? plea for a 10-day extension to confirm their funding arrangements but the decision was taken after the club were unable to provide assurances on several conditions, including the payment of their rugby creditors and the appointment of a director of rugby"

"However, while the decision has devastated those who were attempting to revive the club, it now seems like the door will be left open for their return in ?the medium term? as both PRL and the RFU see the Wasps brand and their supporter base as key to growing the success and status of a rebranded Championship."

This statement of the RFU introducing a senior investor to Holland is rubbish according to Wasps Board member Peter Scrivener and that Wasps were never consulted about this apparent investor who did meet a senior RFU individual easily came to the conclusion that the RFU and the club was not investable in current state and structure.

It just feels like the RFU tries its hardest to make themselves seem to be in a glowing light when actually they aren't. There just seems to be constant mismanagement and the only ones hurt are fans and players/staff.

They claim no DoR which seems like rubbish as we have heard 37 members of staff were interested in joining Wasps.

It doesn't help i have a strong dislike to Sweeney, he promised at the Wuss trial we would never see another club go bust... LI are days away from this. England rugby is at its lowest ebb, grassroots rugby has been rocked by rules it was never consulted on and somehow since 2021, Sweeney has been given a 55% pay rise. He makes 665K a year!

I just don't understand how he can justify that ... it adds to my distaste, but i just hate that in my opinion club rugby is in its lowest ebb. The only positive i've seen from whats happened to Wasps, as Tim Vickers highlighted, it clearly shows the lack of respect and love championship rugby clubs have been given and the underfunding and virtual ringfencing actioned through that.

 

[McTallshort]

So in my opinion... They originally did anything wrong, we asked them to keep clubs to financial regulations and they have... some what.

The problem i have with the RFU is that the article recently posted via the telegraph stated that "The RFU also attempted to help the club secure funding, including introducing Holland to a potential investor and holding meetings to attempt to get the funding in place. But uncertainty about the future structure of the top two tiers and whether or not promotion and relegation would be retained proved to be a stumbling block"

"The RFU rejected Wasps? plea for a 10-day extension to confirm their funding arrangements but the decision was taken after the club were unable to provide assurances on several conditions, including the payment of their rugby creditors and the appointment of a director of rugby"

"However, while the decision has devastated those who were attempting to revive the club, it now seems like the door will be left open for their return in ?the medium term? as both PRL and the RFU see the Wasps brand and their supporter base as key to growing the success and status of a rebranded Championship."

This statement of the RFU introducing a senior investor to Holland is rubbish according to Wasps Board member Peter Scrivener and that Wasps were never consulted about this apparent investor who did meet a senior RFU individual easily came to the conclusion that the RFU and the club was not investable in current state and structure.

It just feels like the RFU tries its hardest to make themselves seem to be in a glowing light when actually they aren't. There just seems to be constant mismanagement and the only ones hurt are fans and players/staff.

They claim no DoR which seems like rubbish as we have heard 37 members of staff were interested in joining Wasps.

It doesn't help i have a strong dislike to Sweeney, he promised at the Wuss trial we would never see another club go bust... LI are days away from this. England rugby is at its lowest ebb, grassroots rugby has been rocked by rules it was never consulted on and somehow since 2021, Sweeney has been given a 55% pay rise. He makes 665K a year!

I just don't understand how he can justify that ... it adds to my distaste, but i just hate that in my opinion club rugby is in its lowest ebb. The only positive i've seen from whats happened to Wasps, as Tim Vickers highlighted, it clearly shows the lack of respect and love championship rugby clubs have been given and the underfunding and virtual ringfencing actioned through that.

Ok thanks and I do see some of your frustrations but I am struggling with pointing the finger at the RFU when Premier rugby are an independent organisation and have been very keen to keep it that way for many years especially when it came to player access and TV rights. It wasn't so long ago that the Premier League wanted to withdraw all its teams from the HC, secured another TV deal if it didn't get what it wanted. I get that's down to how badly the RFU handled the game going pro in the 90s but the premier league and its members (one being Wasps) were happy to play hard ball with the RFU because they felt like they were in charge and now the same clubs are wanting the RFU to help them sort this mess out. If the RFU has any real say in how the premier league is run and financed then fair enough but it's not actually the RFUs business and the premier league have made that abundantly clear a few times

 

[will311293]

Ok thanks and I do see some of your frustrations but I am struggling with pointing the finger at the RFU when Premier rugby are an independent organisation and have been very keen to keep it that way for many years especially when it came to player access and TV rights. It wasn't so long ago that the Premier League wanted to withdraw all its teams from the HC, secured another TV deal if it didn't get what it wanted. I get that's down to how badly the RFU handled the game going pro in the 90s but the premier league and its members (one being Wasps) were happy to play hard ball with the RFU because they felt like they were in charge and now the same clubs are wanting the RFU to help them sort this mess out. If the RFU has any real say in how the premier league is run and financed then fair enough but it's not actually the RFUs business and the premier league have made that abundantly clear a few times

Yeah i probably should be more angry with prem rugby as an organisation and an entity but tbh i really feel the RFU should have been more involved since the creation of professional premiership rugby. I understand the plight of many championship clubs now as the lack of funding and support from the prem clubs incl. ourselves is woeful.

I think my distaste for Sweeney sours it all as the health of the entirety of the game is down to him and the buck stops with him. I still play regularly for Rosslyn Park IVs and the lack of empathy/sympathy for the RFU is at an all time high. the league systems are a mess with clubs regularly being unable to field teams and blowouts all over the place. The new tackle system that was shoved onto players was a joke and i think grass roots has just become completely disconnected from the RFU.

Sweeney and his cronies don't care about anything except Twickenham gate figures I'm afraid and how much hospitality they sell.

I think I am just angry at the world tbh, due to something i've followed for over 20 years just disappear into thin air.

 

[Jimbo]

Yeah i probably should be more angry with prem rugby as an organisation and an entity but tbh i really feel the RFU should have been more involved since the creation of professional premiership rugby. I understand the plight of many championship clubs now as the lack of funding and support from the prem clubs incl. ourselves is woeful.

I think my distaste for Sweeney sours it all as the health of the entirety of the game is down to him and the buck stops with him. I still play regularly for Rosslyn Park IVs and the lack of empathy/sympathy for the RFU is at an all time high. the league systems are a mess with clubs regularly being unable to field teams and blowouts all over the place. The new tackle system that was shoved onto players was a joke and i think grass roots has just become completely disconnected from the RFU.

Sweeney and his cronies don't care about anything except Twickenham gate figures I'm afraid and how much hospitality they sell.

I think I am just angry at the world tbh, due to something i've followed for over 20 years just disappear into thin air.

I feel your pain, unfortunately I always had a horrible feeling that the Cov move/Ricoh investment was always going to prolong the inevitable, sure no one knew covid was coming but even then I think they probably only fast tracked things Not caused them. I am not saying I had better suggestions but that doesn't make it a good choice.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Followed Wasps for 30 years…

I don't know how to feel or what to do next

you do what we did at Wimbledon when we had to reform...you and your mates rock up to whatever common/park/car park the team is playing at and you cheer them on, you buy the merch you can afford and you drag along anyone that shows even a passing interest....slowly the club will come back stronger

good luck, its a hell of a ride and can be a lot of fun once some of the pain eases

 

[will311293]

I have a feeling that this isn't the end... this board doesn't sound like they are giving up and i think we are too well supported (even if spread across huge range) to disappear. Dallaglio isn't directly involved but seems to know that they are going to keep going.

The key statement "Dallaglio, who won five Premiership ***les and two Heineken Cups with Wasps, added: "Things will move on. At the moment, Wasps are back in the lowest league and if we have to play and get promoted 10 years on the trot, we will do that because it is a strong group of people. There are a lot of very influential people within Wasps and they will come back. I'd watch this space, it's not quite all over just yet."

Dallaglio breaks his silence on Wasps' losing Championship licence

Lawrence Dallaglio has broken his silence on the revelation that Wasps had their licence for next season’s Championship revoked by the RFU.

www.rugbypass.com

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Kent Wasps then by the sounds of it...