• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

Welsh regions turn down central contract offer from WRU.

dullonien

International
TRF Legend
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Messages
6,032
Country Flag
Wales
Welsh regions turn down central contract offer from WRU

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20001262

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbyn...of-central-contracts-from-wru-91466-32060289/

The WRU proposed that it would use the 6.2 million pounds it currently gives to the four regions to guarantee the release of Welsh players for international duty, and pay this directly to the players themselves. The plan was to centrally contract the entire Welsh squad, and not just a select few (although obviously the likes of Phillips, Hook etc. playing outside of Wales wouldn't have been). This would probably have cost more than £6.2 million.

Ultimately I suppose, this gives the regions no extra funding. However are they seriously expecting the WRU to pay twice for the same players?

I expect this deal to go through eventually, but it'll have to coincide with an increase in direct funding from the WRU.

I feel that the regions are being very short sighted here. This is a good offer from the WRU imo, as it offloads their biggest earners to the WRU. Or are they scared about how the WRU will manage them, forcing extended periods of rest in a similar way to how the IRFU manage Ireland's international players? This has not held the Irish provinces back though, so it shouldn't be seen as a bad thing.
 
Last edited:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20001262

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbyn...of-central-contracts-from-wru-91466-32060289/

The WRU proposed that it would use the 6.2 million pounds it currently gives to the four regions to guarantee the release of Welsh players for international duty, and pay this directly to the players themselves. The plan was to centrally contract the entire Welsh squad, and not just a select few (although obviously the likes of Phillips, Hook etc. playing outside of Wales wouldn't have been). This would probably have cost more than £6.2 million.

Ultimately I suppose, this gives the regions no extra funding. However are they seriously expecting the WRU to pay twice for the same players?

I expect this deal to go through eventually, but it'll have to coincide with an increase in direct funding from the WRU.

I feel that the regions are being very short sighted here. This is a good offer from the WRU imo, as it offloads their biggest earners to the WRU. Or are they scared about how the WRU will manage them, forcing extended periods of rest in a similar way to how the IRFU manage Ireland's international players? This has not held the Irish provinces back though, so it shouldn't be seen as a bad thing.

surely the wru paying for players frees up money to pay for / buy others ? so isnt it like a direct fund raise?
im confused
 
surely the wru paying for players frees up money to pay for / buy others ? so isnt it like a direct fund raise?
im confused

At the moment, the money can be used however the regions choose. That includes facilities, coaches, academies etc. If that is just used to pay the players directly then the regions lose that, and also have no control over when their players are available.

The WRU have more access to their internationals then any other country already, so I can understand why the regions are not keen to just hand the players over.

To be honest, given the offer was made two months ago, this is just the WRU trying to make sure the public are on their side and paint the regions as the bad guys in all this. It's nowhere near as black and white as they seem to state.

Leinster may not suffer too much because of central contracts, but then they can also bring in the likes of Nacewa, Thorn etc.
 
Bravo Welsh regions.

Now you will lose your top Welsh internationals and:

a) will never win the Heineken Cup
b) have the squad further weakened and not win the RaboPro12 either
c) crowds will shrink with less success
d) hurt the Wales side as there will be more issues with player availability from English/French clubs

All just so the regions can have "control" over players they soon won't have at all.

Lydiate, Roberts, Cuthbert etc will all be gone to French/English clubs very soon.
 
Last edited:
Leinster may not suffer too much because of central contracts, but then they can also bring in the likes of Nacewa, Thorn etc.

They do. They can also call in incredible talent reserves of native talent due to being able to give tons of gametime to products from an excellent academy, which is more important... but that takes time to build. Long term, I do believe the enforced rotation to be beneficial. Short term, it will hurt.

I'm not sure what I make of this. My initial reaction was a very selfish "Yay", as no stars makes the Welsh teams easier prey in the Pro12 and HC... but then, so do shallow undercoached squads...

Long story short - whatever way you look at it, as long as the Welsh teams have less success, and therefore raise less money, than the Irish teams, they will be a distinct disadvantage. And how that manifests itself is slightly irrelevant... but this way does sound the worse way imo, given the likely effects on morale and the national team.
 
The obvious, glaring problem with this offer is that the regions aren't just using the current funding for the 'elite' player contracts.

To my knowledge (and correct me if i am wrong), they are using the current funding for the entire regional operation and is used based on the objectives and demands of the region . To remove that funding would be hugely damaging to mostly all the regions?

It's a strange, tight fisted offer that I'm not surprised is being rejected. The WRU can do better.
 
The obvious, glaring problem with this offer is that the regions aren't just using the current funding for the 'elite' player contracts.

To my knowledge (and correct me if i am wrong), they are using the current funding for the entire regional operation and is used based on the objectives and demands of the region . To remove that funding would be hugely damaging to mostly all the regions?

It's a strange, tight fisted offer that I'm not surprised is being rejected. The WRU can do better.

I agree...this only works if the regions are paying the elite players more than the 6.2 million now. Anything else leaves the Regions having to raise the difference and relinquishing any control over "their" players!!
 
The obvious, glaring problem with this offer is that the regions aren't just using the current funding for the 'elite' player contracts.

To my knowledge (and correct me if i am wrong), they are using the current funding for the entire regional operation and is used based on the objectives and demands of the region . To remove that funding would be hugely damaging to mostly all the regions?

It's a strange, tight fisted offer that I'm not surprised is being rejected. The WRU can do better.

Spot on.
 
The obvious, glaring problem with this offer is that the regions aren't just using the current funding for the 'elite' player contracts.

To my knowledge (and correct me if i am wrong), they are using the current funding for the entire regional operation and is used based on the objectives and demands of the region . To remove that funding would be hugely damaging to mostly all the regions?

It's a strange, tight fisted offer that I'm not surprised is being rejected. The WRU can do better.

Aye correct.

So let's look at it:

Dragons would lose out on £1.5m per year and would be only saving Lydiate and Faletau's wages which would be £300,000 total. As each region gets £1.55m from £6.2m given by WRU to RRW. The WRU proposal was to use this £6.2m to pay for Central Contracts, hence each region losing £1.55m

Ospreys and Scarlets would benefit as they provide bulk of Welsh team so they would be saving those players wages. The Blues and Dragons would worse off.
 
Great, another step backwards for Welsh rugby.
Ireland has done well with central contracts. Need I even mention New Zealand?

The regions complain about French clubs offering greater contracts and go to the WRU to support them, and when something like this is offered, they turn their back.
This offer itself wasn't particularly great, but something needs to happen soon. The WRU and regions must find terms that they can both agree upon and get central contracts sorted.
Congratulations to Ireland/France/England, on the next ten years worth of Heineken Cups. (Who am I kidding, I just mean Leinster)

Now, the fact that the WRU wanted the regions to sign onto a deal which would make them lose 1.5 million each is also astounding. Incompetence on both side. I hope this is sorted sooner rather than later.
 
Last edited:
Great, another step backwards for Welsh rugby.
Ireland has done well with central contracts. Need I even mention New Zealand?

The regions complain about French clubs offering greater contracts and go to the WRU to support them, and when something like this is offered, they turn their back.
This offer itself wasn't particularly great, but something needs to happen soon. The WRU and regions must find terms that they can both agree upon and get central contracts sorted.
Congratulations to Ireland/France/England, on the next ten years worth of Heineken Cups. (Who am I kidding, I just mean Leinster)

Now, the fact that the WRU wanted the regions to sign onto a deal which would make them lose 1.5 million each is also astounding. Incompetence on both side. I hope this is sorted sooner rather than later.

What is also astounding is the fact that both sides seem happy to slug this out in public instead of actually working on a solution.
 
What is also astounding is the fact that both sides seem happy to slug this out in public instead of actually working on a solution.

Yes, that too. The pro-WRU and pro-Regions sides now have more ammunition without all of the facts.
Something needs to be done, and I don't mean putting letters on the internet.
 
Ultimately the Ospreys and Scarlets deserve to benefit more because they are producing the Welsh players at present. It might sound a little unfair, but if the Dragons can't produce more than two international caliber players, then maybe they don't deserve the same £1.55m the other regions get. That goes for the Blues as well, although their numbers are higher with currently 7 players involved in the Welsh squad (if I haven't missed anyone). This extra £6.2m is being given directly as compensation for the use of the Welsh players, which would no longer be required if the WRU payed those players salaries.

I don't see where the regions are really losing out here. They basically get free use of some of the best players in the world. The WRU might also have the financial clout to draw the likes of Hook, Phillips and maybe even Gill, Mitchell etc. back to Wales, which would once again benefit the regions. There's a chance the Blues and Dragons could benefit it the WRU decided down the line to balance out the playing talent a little, i.e. the Scarlets have two international hookers in their ranks (with a further likely international hooker in Myhill) while the Blues and Dragons don't even have a regional standard hooker in their squad. The WRU might see the benefit of re-locating one of those hookers to benefit Wales. The regions might not like this possibility, but what is the point of having a player of Myhill's potential (he's one of the best young hookers out there) not even getting any gametime whatsoever at the Scarlets. Maybe it could be on a loan type basis with the original region that developed the player guaranteed to get that player back when required.

Now, the fact that the WRU wanted the regions to sign onto a deal which would make them lose 1.5 million each is also astounding. Incompetence on both side. I hope this is sorted sooner rather than later.

That £1.5m is for the release of international players though. Either way, the WRU should be giving the regions a little more I agree.
 
Last edited:
Dull - to use the Irish example, that sort of player re-balancing sounds good in theory, but doesn't seem to happen in reality; witness Munster's stock-piling of international locks a few years back while Ulster had none and Leinster had none. Ultimately, teams don't want to give up their talent, and crucially, players don't want to be told what to do.

Further use of the Irish example of central contracting reveals that one team getting absolutely ****** would not be a surprise, but possibly quite beneficial to the greater good. No surprise nobody wants to sign up for that though!
 
Dull - to use the Irish example, that sort of player re-balancing sounds good in theory, but doesn't seem to happen in reality; witness Munster's stock-piling of international locks a few years back while Ulster had none and Leinster had none. Ultimately, teams don't want to give up their talent, and crucially, players don't want to be told what to do.

Further use of the Irish example of central contracting reveals that one team getting absolutely ****** would not be a surprise, but possibly quite beneficial to the greater good. No surprise nobody wants to sign up for that though!

Yeah, in an ideal world maybe........

Just frustrates me to see the likes of Myhill not get any gametime, although there aren't really many players in the same situation, bu if the academies at the O's and Scarlets especially continue to churn out talent we might see more and more. Look at the prem clubs in the Scarlets region at present, Llandovery, Llanelli and Quins all doing well, I'm sure there are some players there that the Dragons could use.
 
STATEMENT ISSUED ON BEHALF OF THE FOUR WELSH REGIONS

Regional Rugby Wales, on behalf of the Scarlets, Ospreys, Cardiff Blues and Newport Gwent Dragons, has given a brief response to an open letter published on behalf of the WRU Chief Executive Roger Lewis as follows:

Chief Executive of Regional Rugby Wales (RRW) Stuart Gallacher said: "We have consistently stated that until we have found workable solutions for the challenges facing the whole of Welsh professional rugby, it is our firm belief that it's not helpful to a complex process to get drawn into individual debates in public. What is important is that we consider and implement the right solutions for the whole of Welsh rugby; taking into account every level of the game in Wales and how that works together.
"It is also critical at this time that our regions and all our rugby supporters are able to concentrate on an important and exciting weekend of European rugby - both from performance and commercial perspectives.
"It is our primary duty to support our players and back the energy and effort going into Welsh rugby performances on the field in Europe's top club competition; and it would be helpful, therefore, not to have any further distraction or disruption at this time from that task."

Statement from RRW
 
Statement from RRW

Well said tbh. However the regions have also been stirring things in the press a little with both the Blues and Dragons going on about needing help to keep Roberts and Lydiate. Maybe the WRU just wanted to demonstrate that they have attempted to do just that.
 
Yeah, in an ideal world maybe........

Just frustrates me to see the likes of Myhill not get any gametime, although there aren't really many players in the same situation, bu if the academies at the O's and Scarlets especially continue to churn out talent we might see more and more. Look at the prem clubs in the Scarlets region at present, Llandovery, Llanelli and Quins all doing well, I'm sure there are some players there that the Dragons could use.

What's the situation with Welsh clubs signing players from each other's academies? Does it happen often?
 
What's the situation with Welsh clubs signing players from each other's academies? Does it happen often?

Not sure actually, think its more likely to see regions picking up players who've been released by an academy. For example Halfpenny was with the Ospreys up until u18s I think, wasnt offered anything past that and got picked up by Cardiff instead.
 
What's the situation with Welsh clubs signing players from each other's academies? Does it happen often?

I think there are slight fee's involved. But lot of player pick ups are now starting occur from the Welsh Premiership.

The Dragons recently signed two ex-Scarlets players in the form of Owen Evans and Nic Cudd both playing for Llandovery and Llanelli respectively and this is the type of pick ups that might go on. Not much the case with the Ospreys and Scarlets as their academy and feeder clubs are strong. The Blues are similar but the players are not that great. The Dragons pick up the scarps really.
 

Latest posts

Top