Why Are There No World Class Players?

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

A bold ***le, I know, but I think it's mostly the truth. There are hardly any world class players left. I was thinking earlier about who is the best in the world in each position, and there are no stand out candidates for the most part. Obviously you've at Aaron at 9, Read at 8, Smith at 15, but after that...
Last year there were so many obvious ones.

Retallick 4
Pocock 7
Carter 10
Savea 11
Nonu 12

Now, Retallick's gone quiet, Pocock played 1 international and he did nothing, Carter and Nonu have quit international rugby and Savea's gotten fat. After that, players who were previously considered world class, are now gaining major criticism: Hooper, Kuridrani, Warburton, the whole SA team and many more.

So the question is, why are there no more World Class players and also, what would your world team be? And how many of the players in there can really be considered as being world class.

 

[Gavin]

Loads of world class players.

Itoje
Stander
Etzebeth
Nadolo
Giteau

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Loads of world class players.

Itoje
Stander
Etzebeth
Nadolo
Giteau

Itoje and Stander aren't world class. They're good, but they aren't world class yet. Etzebeth hasn't been impressive this test series, Nadolo's overrated and Giteau's retired from international rugby.

 

[gaston le gaff]

World class players are probably worthy after many caps which is not the case as far as Itojea, Stander, Nadolo are concerned, they arrive on the scene play brilliantly, this does not give them the ***le of World Class, give them their chance and maybe in 3/4 yrs you may be eating your very own words.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

You need to define "world class" . For me it's top 3 in their position at any given time. Post RWC, you have new players coming through and also a bit of a lull. You have your standouts right now I.e. Read, Aaron and Ben Smith. I still think Folau is "world class".

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

You need to define "world class" . For me it's top 3 in their position at any given time. Post RWC, you have new players coming through and also a bit of a lull. You have your standouts right now I.e. Read, Aaron and Ben Smith. I still think Folau is "world class".

Usually I would agree with that as a rule of thumb, except that at the moment a lot of the top 3 players in each positions aren't that good. For example, going off of the just passed test series, the top 3 OCs in the world are probably JJ, Davies and Kuridrani (Moala was good in that last test but it was against a done Welsh side, he isn't proven yet. Also, you can put the previously mentioned centres into whichever order you want, that's not the point of what I'm saying). But none of those 3, at the moment, are in good enough form that I could comfortably say that they are world class. And that's the point I'm making, last year at OC the 3 best were Smith, Kuridrani and Kriel, and then I would've comfortably called all of them world class. But you can't say that about the top 3 now. The standards of players has dropped so significantly since last year.

 

[Peat]

If you use World Class as head and shoulders above the rest, then it stands to reason there are fewer World Class players, as the standard of the rest has shot up. They're more athletic, they're better prepared, they're better coached. Its a lot harder for athletic freaks and training nuts to get that edge now.

 

[nickdnz]

Not sure how Retallick has gotten quiet? He was awesome last game.

I have no idea how you assess players to say they're not 'world class'. I would suggest that because it's the start of a Word Cup cycle, players are being tested now who haven't got the same profile as they will in a few years. Come the Rugby Championship I think we will start seeing more stand out performances.

 

[GoTheNaki]

I would say that, besides Ben Smith at fullback... No-one is clearly above another, at the other positions. People say Folau is up there, but he's now having his good and bad days, whereas, that isn't the case for Smith.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Not sure how Retallick has gotten quiet? He was awesome last game.

I have no idea how you assess players to say they're not 'world class'. I would suggest that because it's the start of a Word Cup cycle, players are being tested now who haven't got the same profile as they will in a few years. Come the Rugby Championship I think we will start seeing more stand out performances.

Don't get me wrong, he's still good, but he's not as good as he used to be.

 

[GoTheNaki]

If you use World Class as head and shoulders above the rest, then it stands to reason there are fewer World Class players, as the standard of the rest has shot up. They're more athletic, they're better prepared, they're better coached. Its a lot harder for athletic freaks and training nuts to get that edge now.

You can still say "that guy is the best at X position". And then, typically, he's a superstar at that position. Atm, it is pretty blurry with every position. Besides, as I said, fullback.

- - - Updated - - -

We can only really describe via "tiers"... But even then..

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I would say that, besides Ben Smith at fullback... No-one is clearly above another, at the other positions. People say Folau is up there, but he's now having his good and bad days, whereas, that isn't the case for Smith.

Smith is definitely above Folau, but Folau can still be considered a world class player. I would also say that Read is definitely ahead of his competition. Faletau is up there with him, but Read is undoubtedly ahead. And after that, at number 8 the trail goes cold and you're left with Vunipola, an out of form Vermeulen and a past his time Heaslip. Aaron Smith too, Webb and Murray are up there, but he's still ahead of them, undoubtedly.

 

[GoTheNaki]

Like, I really thought that Etzabeth was going to be the best lock in the world... I've got a feeling that Itoje will get there too.. I guess NZ have had such good locks for so long that it is hard to rank them when we don't lose too often... idk.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

You can still say "that guy is the best at X position". And then, typically, he's a superstar at that position. Atm, it is pretty blurry with every position. Besides, as I said, fullback.

- - - Updated - - -

We can only really describe via "tiers"... But even then..

But ATM even players who are the best at X position aren't performing that well. Like at 10, who are the contenders there? Cruden, who can't kick? Sexton who's constantly injured and can't refind form? Farrell who's playing his rugby at 12 and can't play make? There isn't a single 10 ATM who I would call truly world class. Same goes for prop and blindside. Wing is questionable too with Savea in the form he is and North injured.

 

[GoTheNaki]

I don't like Aaron Smith vs teams that are good at the breakdown... I have always worried about him vs teams like England who are strong at the breakdown. When we lost to them, he played terrible. When we then beat them, he still played terrible. I just, I find it hard to put him above every other halfback because he just does his job. He just happens to do it for the All Blacks.. And, to be honest.. I really thought Perenara would have ripped that position from him by now... But has somehow let Kerr-Barlow past him, it still baffles me why... Perenara is one of those superstar halfbacks that can pull magic out at any time. And I guess that's what Hansen doesn't like... That uncertainty, whereas Smith and Kerr-Barlow just do their job.

 

[nickdnz]

But ATM even players who are the best at X position aren't performing that well. Like at 10, who are the contenders there? Cruden, who can't kick? Sexton who's constantly injured and can't refind form? Farrell who's playing his rugby at 12 and can't play make? There isn't a single 10 ATM who I would call truly world class. Same goes for prop and blindside. Wing is questionable too with Savea in the form he is and North injured.

Why can't Cruden kick?

I would disagree and say NZs problem is too many world class players

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Why can't Cruden kick?

I would disagree and say NZs problem is too many world class players

Good old NZ cockiness

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

If you use World Class as head and shoulders above the rest, then it stands to reason there are fewer World Class players, as the standard of the rest has shot up. They're more athletic, they're better prepared, they're better coached. Its a lot harder for athletic freaks and training nuts to get that edge now.

Yep and for me world class means sustained excellence over many years not half a dozen decent performances. World cups are natural watersheds and many undoubtedly world class players retired just a few months ago.

And these things are always cyclical.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I could name 23 of the top of my head and it would be......................................................................

Vunipola
Hartley
Cole
Itoje
Kruis
Robshaw
Haskell
Vunipola
Youngs
Ford
Farrell
Watson
Farrell
JJ
Nowell
Dagg

George
Mullan
Hill
Lawes
Launhcbury
Clifford
Care
Daly

 

[Tony Manx]

I could name 23 of the top of my head and it would be......................................................................

Vunipola
Hartley
Cole
Itoje
Kruis
Robshaw
Haskell
Vunipola
Youngs
Ford
Farrell
Watson
Farrell
JJ
Nowell
Dagg

George
Mullan
Hill
Lawes
Launhcbury
Clifford
Care
Daly

Oh you cheeky wee monkey....see what you did there!!!