Winning Top 14 bigger than H Cup - even O'Gara says so

[Big Ewis]

well this thread is a delight now.

 

[FrenchFan]

I agree with the entertainment value bit.

And I've said, from that point of view, 6N is a pisser for entertainment value compared with Top14, and that our league is harder to win than the H Cup, which it is.

It was just a simple observation. No need to get upset over it.

and its kind of funny to hear O'Gara saying today Top 14 is bigger than H Cup.

 

[lynam1104]

...and he causes yet another storm in a tea cup!!

Everyone is entitled to their own views and ranting and raving or even setting forward a decent argument is highly unlikely to change those views so why bother chaps!! There is no definitive answer as it is just personal opinion...........!!

While you're absolutly right and on a serious level I agree with 100%
however
This is way more fun

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

https://twitter.com/RonanOGara10/status/462229964612726784

Language barrier or continuing to play to the crowds?

 

[Big Ewis]

I dunno FrenchFan...I'd say Top 14 is harder as a whole because it's constant, super intense, and a long ass season filled with big names everywhere, super athletic wingers and centers everywhere, huge flankers, great half-backs everywhere etc...and coaches are usually good.
But proportionally, rather than on a sheer full year's season, the H Cup is more difficult. But I agree that on the long run, considering the weight of a Top 14 season nowadays, one could call that "harder" to live through.

And it's true that the Saracens being the odd exception this year (to be fair, because Ulster were 14, exclusively), the H Cup is only that difficult because it has 3 very good Irish teams, period. Nothing beyond that can threaten Top 14 sides playing a full roster and focused 100% on the stakes.

Anyways, both championships are a joy to watch and make European Rugby that much greater. But the debate definitely poses itself nowadays: Top 14 or H Cup ?

 

[Groundhog]

Ok if Racing are like what u say a nonentity of a club (and Im no Racing fan), why did Sexton & O'Gara chose Racing over their provinces?

Other than money, i can't see any other reason as they're not even in a rugby region nor town. I mean both could have signed for any of our great rugby clubs.

does that make them mercenaries as well? where is the difference with the Toulon crowd then?

O'Gara wouldn't have got a coaching job here as it stands. We're quite sewn up in that regard so I can't blame him for getting a very good deal. I mean he has virtually no coaching experience. As for Sexton, yes he went entirely for the money. I wouldn't really blame a player for trying to earn as much as they can though, never have. Their careers are short and most have little chance of a career in rugby afterwards.
The term mercenary does apply in this case, but as I've said before I have no big issue with any of the players who play for Toulon (unless they're ********s).
EDIT: Ewis. The reason so many Irish were drawn into this argument is because that was pretty much the intention of the thread. I'll hopefully get to watch a bit more Top 14 next year with Sky but until then, I really wouldn't care enough to comment on about Top 14 under normal circumstances. Anyway this thread is basically entirely due to the fact that RO'G still can't speak French for ****.

 

[gaston le gaff]

Sorry but i've been out to lunch at some Chateau were we were invited to, so i'm behind....but after an excellent lunch with buckets of fine wine and cognac can i have my say.!!!!!! no rants and no raves just a few honest truths!!!

1. The Celtic league is fairly mundane the Premiership not much better and only a few teams that could be Champions.
2. No one denies Ireland success in the 6 Nations and well done, but its easy when their players are not tired through week in weekout tough Championship games, good for them.
3. Nobody denies Ireland success in the H Cup, the last 2 years less however not that good, but then if you had to play a tough Championship game every week i wonder if the results would be the same
4. The constant moaning of money and the exudos of players from over the channel to the delights of French style and living, and of course superior rugby who could ask for more.
5 You have only the H Cup and the money it provides which you so desperately need, the TOP 14 takes the money but its a bonus for us, in France the TOP 14 generates enough income to survive and buy the best players available.
RUNNING OUT OF THINGS TO SAY................
6. Just one more thing, someone states what ROG said and World War 3 breaks out while i'm at lunch what the f*** is happening do you guys not realise that tomorrow is like mega important for us!! tomorrow who goes down, who qualifies, who goes straight into the semis, who goes into a 1/4 final at home, who goes into a 1/4 final away from home, who stops playing and goes on holiday( thats the others) this is important!!!!!!!!!!
Not what some Irshman said in a paper we dont give a SH**********

Have a nice day all, and tomorrow is all about rugby, TOP 14 rugby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Sorry but i've been out to lunch at some Chateau were we were invited to, so i'm behind....but after an excellent lunch with buckets of fine wine and cognac can i have my say.!!!!!! no rants and no raves just a few honest truths!!!

1. The Celtic league is fairly mundane the Premiership not much better and only a few teams that could be Champions - No one denies it, only a handful of teams in the Top 14 can be champions as well though.
2. No one denies Ireland success in the 6 Nations and well done, but its easy when their players are not tired through week in weekout tough Championship games, good for them. - Or having a better team than France, Wales, Scotland and Italy this year would do it.
3. Nobody denies Ireland success in the H Cup, the last 2 years less however not that good, but then if you had to play a tough Championship game every week i wonder if the results would be the same -Leinster reached the finals of the Pr1 12 both of the last two years they won so I doubt it would have made much of a difference.
4. The constant moaning of money and the exudos of players from over the channel to the delights of French style and living, and of course superior rugby who could ask for more. - Not been mentioned.
5 You have only the H Cup and the money it provides which you so desperately need, the TOP 14 takes the money but its a bonus for us, in France the TOP 14 generates enough income to survive and buy the best players available. - Not been mentioned...
RUNNING OUT OF THINGS TO SAY................
6. Just one more thing, someone states what ROG said and World War 3 breaks out while i'm at lunch what the f*** is happening do you guys not realise that tomorrow is like mega important for us!! tomorrow who goes down, who qualifies, who goes straight into the semis, who goes into a 1/4 final at home, who goes into a 1/4 final away from home, who stops playing and goes on holiday( thats the others) this is important!!!!!!!!!!
Not what some Irshman said in a paper we dont give a SH********** - Frenchfan clearly did!

Have a nice day all, and tomorrow is all about rugby, TOP 14 rugby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Enjoy it and goodluck!

.

 

[goodNumber10]

Obviously to make sure everybody knows how vastly superior french rugby is.

oh wait

View attachment 2821

dont' think international success equates to domestic dominance - as Wales repeatedly have shown.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Who cares? It might be harder to win, but it can't be Europe's premier competition when it's missing the likes of Saracens, Leicester, Northampton, Ulster, Munster and Leinster, some of the top sides in the continent. I don't see the point of this thread except as a dick swinging contest.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Who cares? It might be harder to win, but it can't be Europe's premier competition when it's missing the likes of Saracens, Leicester, Northampton, Ulster, Munster and Leinster, some of the top sides in the continent. I don't see the point of this thread except as a dick swinging contest.

You did well but didn't quite nail the landing, 8/10.

 

[FrenchFan]

we care. But no one asked for your opinion. It was a thread for Top 14 which rules out about 99.9% of posters you included. Couldn't help yourself I suppose.

 

[Feicarsinn]

we care. But no one asked for your opinion. It was a thread for Top 14 which rules out about 99.9% of posters you included. Couldn't help yourself I suppose.

What does any of that mean? It's only for people who follow the Top 14? So you're essentially patting yourself on the back for watching some rugby matches instead of some others? Cool bro.

 

[big ginger 8]

What does any of that mean? It's only for people who follow the Top 14? So you're essentially patting yourself on the back for watching some rugby matches instead of some others? Cool bro.

Hipster rugby?

 

[TheSaffycen]

Can I ask why does anyone care what O'Gara said ? He said that he thinks the Top 14 is a bigger competition than the HCup, so what ? Everyone is entitled to their opinion and some people prefer their domestic league and others Europe. I like both equally just because I am fascinated by the different aspects on show, the Top 14 is like a large arm- wrestle of a league, the HCup is this sort of idealistic rugby(IMO) where everyone attacks and play open flowing rugby. This Top 14 v HCup debate is just bloody stupid, accept each on their own merits. And also when talking about the French don't say to the French what they think ! If they say don't care about the HCup they really don't, it's like me and the champions league, I really don't care who wins it but I will still give it a viewing. The Irish like the HCup as they have had real dominance in it recently, 5 of the last 10 winners has come from Ireland.
On a separate note I think you might see a bit of a slump from the Irish teams as they will have to compete on merit in both competitions, something the French and English have had to do for years, it is very hard to compete on both fronts only Saracens, Northampton and Tigers can do in England. This is why France's poor showing in the competition is quite embarrassing as they have 2 or 3 internationals backed up in each position, and they should be able to compete on both fronts considering the English can do it without the budget.

 

[big ginger 8]

Can I ask why does anyone care what O'Gara said ? He said that he thinks the Top 14 is a bigger competition than the HCup, so what ? Everyone is entitled to their opinion and some people prefer their domestic league and others Europe. I like both equally just because I am fascinated by the different aspects on show, the Top 14 is like a large arm- wrestle of a league, the HCup is this sort of idealistic rugby(IMO) where everyone attacks and play open flowing rugby. This Top 14 v HCup debate is just bloody stupid, accept each on their own merits. And also when talking about the French don't say to the French what they think ! If they say don't care about the HCup they really don't, it's like me and the champions league, I really don't care who wins it but I will still give it a viewing. The Irish like the HCup as they have had real dominance in it recently, 5 of the last 10 winners has come from Ireland.
On a separate note I think you might see a bit of a slump from the Irish teams as they will have to compete on merit in both competitions, something the French and English have had to do for years, it is very hard to compete on both fronts only Saracens, Northampton and Tigers can do in England. This is why France's poor showing in the competition is quite embarrassing as they have 2 or 3 internationals backed up in each position, and they should be able to compete on both fronts considering the English can do it without the budget.

The merit thing makes no difference to the top three Irish provinces at the moment. In the top 4 at the moment three of the teams are Irish. Since the introduction of the playoffs Leinster's been in every final while winning 2 H Cups and an Amlin, Munster and Ulster have also been in a final each. Any "slump" will not be because of new qualification being introduced.

 

[Groundhog]

Yeah the quality of opposition in the Rabo would need to rise to threaten our place in Europe. I really can't see us declining like people are saying. Our academies are excellent, and we don't need to sign huge names to remain competitive, we need to sign young and intelligently. People have worried about our lack of quality signings but it's World Cup year next year so I can see a few big names coming our direction during the post WC Exodus.
Actually I'm not sure where the idea of a decline is coming from. Munster have reached a semi (lost away) during a transitional phase (which is now ending) two years in a row, Leinster have been without their best player and an aging team which should be rejuvinated before long and they reach a quarter final (lost away) while Ulster are having nothing short of an injury crisis which reared it's head 20 minutes into a HC quarter final.
On RTE right now they're talking about this exact subject, and it struck me how strong we are in nearly every position bar TH Prop and a couple of centres.

 

[TheSaffycen]

The merit thing makes no difference to the top three Irish provinces at the moment. In the top 4 at the moment three of the teams are Irish. Since the introduction of the playoffs Leinster's been in every final while winning 2 H Cups and an Amlin, Munster and Ulster have also been in a final each. Any "slump" will not be because of new qualification being introduced.

But it means that the Scottish and Welsh are now going to put in a real effort to get into those places, you wont have the thing where Scarlets aren't going to put on any show for the rest of the league, they now will go all out to get top 7 as they aren't guaranteed Europe if ospreys are above them. Then you have the problem that the English and French teams face, other teams that haven't played during Europe so all of their players are fresh, makes it a lot harder to keep up in both comps.

 

[Feicarsinn]

But it means that the Scottish and Welsh are now going to put in a real effort to get into those places, you wont have the thing where Scarlets aren't going to put on any show for the rest of the league, they now will go all out to get top 7 as they aren't guaranteed Europe if ospreys are above them. Then you have the problem that the English and French teams face, other teams that haven't played during Europe so all of their players are fresh, makes it a lot harder to keep up in both comps.

I don't think the problem is that the Welsh and Scots aren't trying, it's that they're ****ing ****e. Leinster, Munster and Ulster are all comfortably within the top 6 in the league, and have as much depth as anyone in the competition. I don't see it affecting us.

 

[big ginger 8]

But it means that the Scottish and Welsh are now going to put in a real effort to get into those places, you wont have the thing where Scarlets aren't going to put on any show for the rest of the league, they now will go all out to get top 7 as they aren't guaranteed Europe if ospreys are above them. Then you have the problem that the English and French teams face, other teams that haven't played during Europe so all of their players are fresh, makes it a lot harder to keep up in both comps.

Iit's not like Scarlet or others have gone easy because their saving themselves for Europe. The other teams are potnetial banana skins but most aren't good enough to be serious threats.