Would the NZ public/teams welcome a South African coach in any of their teams ?

[mania]

I hope this isn't the case. This could be partly the reason as to why the numbers are dropping in NZ. Kids are getting discouraged at an early age to play as other kids are besting them.

Whereas in SA, we don't really care much about skills and showmanship early on in development, and rather teach the kids the basics and get them to love the game. It's also evident that some kids just develop a lot later than others, and we help them with that too.

Sorry our kids concentrate on having fun.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Sorry our kids concentrate on having fun.

I think @Heineken was saying they teach their kids to just enjoy/love the game itself rather than enjoy showing off

 

[mania]

I think @Heineken was saying they teach their kids to just enjoy/love the game itself rather than enjoy showing off

really? i dont know of any kids that go to rugby to learn the "basics" or because they "love"rugby at a young age. all the kids i know go to rugby to hang out with their mates and enjoy themselves.

 

[mania]

I think @Heineken was saying they teach their kids to just enjoy/love the game itself rather than enjoy showing off

and this has nothing to do with adults. dont make it sound like this has anything to do with me or the NZ system. this is what i see kids doing when they dont think adults are listening.
i dont know of any kids who dont like showing off in front of their mates, or being better and pushing each other to new heights.
this humility BS is pretty non existent when kids are together and just hanging out with themselves.

 

[Yulia]

Can't even imagine "rugby for children" ..I suppose it's more "soft" and safe?

 

[mania]

Can't even imagine "rugby for children" ..I suppose it's more "soft" and safe?

there are caveats in place. no tackling till u8's. up til the u10's no fending in the face, no lifting in lineouts, no pushing in scrums, #8 cant break off the back of a scrum and they play 10 aside.
oh yeah and its weight based, so big heavy older kids have to play up 1 or 2 grades depending on how over they are the weight limit

 

[unrated]

oh yeah and its weight based, so big heavy older kids have to play up 1 or 2 grades depending on how over they are the weight limit

We are weight-based here, and big kids have the physical advantage to a degree. But its a game for all sizes so our youth rugby players has to learn from the start how to deal with adversity.
Im not aware that we put too much restrictions on kids apart from making it touch before grade 3 and making most primary school kids play barefoot.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

and this has nothing to do with adults. dont make it sound like this has anything to do with me or the NZ system. this is what i see kids doing when they dont think adults are listening.
i dont know of any kids who dont like showing off in front of their mates, or being better and pushing each other to new heights.
this humility BS is pretty non existent when kids are together and just hanging out with themselves.

i think thats the point, maybe we should teach children to enjoy the game rather than showing off....and your the one that said the NZ system was too different to RSA to accept one of their coaches, that we did things dfferently, the original post was just about whether NZ would accept a coach from South Africa...and it started about adults, you made it all about kids and how they start playing

I didn't make it about you other than acknowledging you have experience in how things are done in NZ

The more i think about it, the "greats" often talk about how they did on their own just because they loved it, Dan Carters' folks putting up posts so he could just go and practice his kicking for example

no one is having a go mate, just talking about different approaches

 

[TRF_heineken]

Sorry our kids concentrate on having fun.

Your definition of having fun is demeaning.

Our kids are having fun. Why do you think rugby is growing so much here, especially in the black communities??? kids see that it's fun.

Rugby is started playing at age 6 and up to age 8 they don't tackle, they make use of tags that the kids must try to rip off the opposition's shorts. There are no scrums or lineouts. just tap kick, pass and run. Because that's what kids that age do, they run. And most of the kids are just standing around being silly on the field.

Age 9 to 13 in my region (public schools, farmtowns) kids play normal tackling rugby, barefoot, and you are not allowed to kick in your opposition half.

Age 14 to 18 is just like senior rugby and kids play according to their age groups. With ages 17 -19 usually in an open type of setting.

What I meant by basics is the kids learn to tackle, pass, kick, scrum, lineout. Showmanship is not part of the coach's repertoire. You do get kids with natural talent to step-off their opponents, but it's not being taught at school.

Plus the bigger kids don't really care about that either as they rather focus on bulldozing.

But what the coaches are doing is to get the kids of all shapes and sizes to have fun together, and to get out their anger and frustration on the field and be better kids.

Bragging and showmanship is what creates bullies!

 

[mania]

Bragging and showmanship is what creates bullies!

That is bullsht. Bullies aren't as simple as u think.

 

[mania]

Yeah dMac really comes across as bully

 

[TRF_heineken]

That is bullsht. Bullies aren't as simple as u think.

Why are you getting offended by this??

Bullies are people who prey on people they think are inferior to them. To brag or show-off is just something that an individual does to crave attention.

and there is nothing like kids playing against people they know. levels of showOffManShip goes thru the roof

 

[mania]

Why are you getting offended by this??

Bullies are people who prey on people they think are inferior to them. To brag or show-off is just something that an individual does to crave attention.

because its a simplistic dum view of what bullies are. you cant call everyone who likes to show off a bully. thats just stupid

 

[TRF_heineken]

because its a simplistic dum view of what bullies are. you cant call everyone who likes to show off a bully. thats just stupid

Seriously?? In this day and age where people have movements against bullying, trying everything in their power to rid the world of these acts, don't you think that teaching kids humility, and showing them that they are all equal and a valued member of society is the better way to go about than to let them become egotistical show-offs who only care about themselves??

It's like you want the rugby field to become a breeding ground to keep bullying alive.

On second thought, maybe we should send some coaches over if this is the mentality over there. This Better than thou attitude is not healthy.

 

[mania]

Seriously?? In this day and age where people have movements against bullying, trying everything in their power to rid the world of these acts, don't you think that teaching kids humility, and showing them that they are all equal and a valued member of society is the better way to go about than to let them become egotistical show-offs who only care about themselves??

It's like you want the rugby field to become a breeding ground to keep bullying alive.

On second thought, maybe we should send some coaches over if this is the mentality over there. This Better than thou attitude is not healthy.

where do u believe showing off breeds bullying? what bs
u dont know what youre tlking about. your basically calling a big proportion of the kids in my team bullies when all they are are braggarts and show offs.
why stifle kids desire to express themselves?
would u call dMac a bully because he likes ot show off? dagg, jamesLowe, coryJane, bBarrett?

 

[TheOvalBall]

I think this is where SA and NZ have been the most "traditional" in sticking to their core rugby philosophies. The Coaches.

In SA's history, we've only had I think 3 New Zealanders coaching SA teams, Laurie Mains, John Mitchell and John Plumtree. And all 3 of them were living in SA for quite a long time.

But if I look at the current crop of SA coaches, there isn't really a lot of guys putting their hands up to be the kind of caliber to coach a NZ team. I think Johan Ackerman, Jake White, Johan van Graan and Franco Smith are the only guys who might do a good job in NZ, but these guys are already getting the big bucks where they are coaching now.

I think it's more than just coaching though, it's about culture, structures, language barriers and a whole bunch of other things too.

Maybe an assistant coach? but I can't see any of our guys becoming a head coach any time soon in NZ.

Eastern Province had Alex Wylie and the Sharks also had a NZ'er after Plumtree (can't recall his name now).

 

[nickdnz]

I think part of the issue is that it's not even easy for talented NZ coaches to coach Super Rugby. Even more so if you don't have strong connections to the boys clubs that tend to pick the coaches.

 

[TRF_heineken]

where do u believe showing off breeds bullying? what bs
u dont know what youre tlking about. your basically calling a big proportion of the kids in my team bullies when all they are are braggarts and show offs.
why stifle kids desire to express themselves?
would u call dMac a bully because he likes ot show off? dagg, jamesLowe, coryJane, bBarrett?

So you find it perfectly okay to praise the braggarts, the guys too big for their britches, whose head's are too big to fit through a door. But you don't seem to okay with praising the guy who never misses a training session, who always helps out when one of these braggarts are sick, or not feeling like playing, yet he knows he'll never be a regular starter. Or what about the fat kid? the one without any skills, but he's there because he can stand his man at a scrum and helps these showboats to get the ball in their hands and let them do whatever they like?

By praising one part/group, and not praising others is borderline bullying by not having others part of their exclusive group. And that's where bullying manifests. You might not even realise it, but by only focusing on the show-offs, you are partly to blame if others are not being praised.

As for the guys you mentioned above, never really liked them cocky jerks. Guess that's partly the problem here. You use those guys as examples, who are show-offs, while others would rather look at someone like Thomas Du Toit, the springbok prop. A gentle giant, who hardly had any game time at the RWC, but got the most praises from his teammates, for his analysis work and preparation work to help the other players perform better on the field.

Team players also deserve a spot in the sunlight. Not just the cocky, arrogant *****...

 

[unrated]

So you find it perfectly okay to praise the braggarts, the guys too big for their britches, whose head's are too big to fit through a door. But you don't seem to okay with praising the guy who never misses a training session, who always helps out when one of these braggarts are sick, or not feeling like playing, yet he knows he'll never be a regular starter. Or what about the fat kid? the one without any skills, but he's there because he can stand his man at a scrum and helps these showboats to get the ball in their hands and let them do whatever they like?

By praising one part/group, and not praising others is borderline bullying by not having others part of their exclusive group. And that's where bullying manifests. You might not even realise it, but by only focusing on the show-offs, you are partly to blame if others are not being praised.

As for the guys you mentioned above, never really liked them cocky jerks. Guess that's partly the problem here. You use those guys as examples, who are show-offs, while others would rather look at someone like Thomas Du Toit, the springbok prop. A gentle giant, who hardly had any game time at the RWC, but got the most praises from his teammates, for his analysis work and preparation work to help the other players perform better on the field.

Team players also deserve a spot in the sunlight. Not just the cocky, arrogant *****...

Mania is clearly a Ronaldo fan. And hates Messi because he is humble

 

[TRF_Olyy]

And hates Messi because he is humble

Nah, Messi is a bully because he has flair