Would this be legal?

[Ragey Erasmus]

Was just thinking, if you have a driving maul, would it be legal for someone to break off from the back of the maul to make it look like they have the ball and then for an actual ball carrier to then break off after them and hopefully punch through a gap in a confused defence, providing there is no obstruction etc.

If so has it been done and does it work?

 

[ncurd]

Was just thinking, if you have a driving maul, would it be legal for someone to break off from the back of the maul to make it look like they have the ball and then for an actual ball carrier to then break off after them and hopefully punch through a gap in a confused defence, providing there is no obstruction etc.

If so has it been done and does it work?

Sounds legal to me it's no different to a dummy runner.

Problem with pulling it off is a defence is usually acutely aware of who has the ball, dummy's usually work by fooling the opposition who will gain possession next.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Yiss.... as above.... I'm sure you could do it - but there is a reason why nobody does.

Having said that - it does basically happen in a lot of front peels.

 

[dai_seven]

It would be difficult for the actual ball carrier to avoid going near the "dummy" runner thereby creating an accidental offside or blocking penalty unless he went the other side of the ruck.
Wales did it in last year (?) and got pinged (can't remember the opposition) but when you see the replay it was blindingly obvious!

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

It would be difficult for the actual ball carrier to avoid going near the "dummy" runner thereby creating an accidental offside or blocking penalty unless he went the other side of the ruck.
Wales did it in last year (?) and got pinged (can't remember the opposition) but when you see the replay it was blindingly obvious!

It wouldn't need to be on the same side, you could have 2 guys at the back and not reveal who actually is holding the ball and then have one dart off to the side like they are making a break and if the defence moves across, have the other guy run the other side a fraction later.

 

[saulan]

It wouldn't need to be on the same side, you could have 2 guys at the back and not reveal who actually is holding the ball and then have one dart off to the side like they are making a break and if the defence moves across, have the other guy run the other side a fraction later.

In a maul situation it would be unlikely that the dummy player would not make contact with the defenders (otherwise the team would most likely see he doesn't have the ball), this would most likely lead to the blocking of a set of defenders in one way or another. Most likely leading to a penalty. If he drifts to far it would have no effect as the opposition will see he doesn't have the ball and he can't really just bash into opposition without the ball either.

 

[AzaMatt]

the defending team would just wrap their arms round the dummy player whilst yelling REF REF. thus getting a penalty for obstruction

 

[die_mole]

depends on how they leave the maul, if the dummy leaves first it will be a free kick for the opposing team. If they leave at same time it should be fine.
Source: Law 17.3.b

 

[smartcooky]

@themole25 has it.

As described by the OP, it is an infringement under 17.3 B

[TEXTAREA]17.3 OTHER MAUL OFFENCES
(b) A player must not take any action to make the opposing team think that the ball is out of
the maul while it is still in the maul.
Sanction: Free Kick[/TEXTAREA]


The ruck and scrum Laws have similar clauses

[TEXTAREA]16.4 OTHER RUCK OFFENCES
(f) A player must not take any action to make the opposing team think that the ball is out of
the ruck while it is still in the ruck.
Sanction: Free Kick[/TEXTAREA]

[TEXTAREA]20.9 SCRUM - GENERAL RESTRICTIONS
(h) Scrum half: Dummying. A scrum half must not take any action to make the opponents
think that the ball is out of the scrum while it is still in the scrum.
Sanction: Free Kick[/TEXTAREA]

 

[Thingimubob]

I swear I've seen scrum halves get penalties out of defenses by making them rush up by pretending to pick up the ball?

Not seen a free kick given for anything like that anyway!