your starting XV's

[ranger]

He played well, sure. So did O'Driscoll. And Jaques Fourie just had a blinder against France

Are you kidding me? Smith was in a different universe to O'Driscoll.

Smith scored 2 trys. He made the right decision everytime he had the ball, was watertight on defense, sliced through the Irish defense at will and showed rugby nous that most players could only dream of. The guy seems physically incapable of making a mistake.

O'Driscoll scored a lucky (yet well taken, good on him) try from 3 metres out. His running was completely ineffective, his jinking little dances before reaching the defensive line only served to confuse his support players and bemuse the AB defenders before he was easily brought down. He threw a couple of handy passes but that was nowhere near enough to make up for being utterly outplayed by Smith.

Having your own opinion is fine, fair play to you thats your right.
But when you get shown up completely, a man stands up and admits they may have been wrong. A child sticks their fingers in their ears and goes "nanana my opinions are right no matter what actually happens"

 

[MunsterMan]

O'Driscoll scored a try from 3 metres out? I seem to remember him being significantly involved in the build up including a lovely offload. Put Conrad Smith in the Irish team instead of O'Driscoll and I don't think he would have done much better, same goes for Fourie.

Don't think O'Driscoll would do any better than Jaque or Conrad in the SA/NZ teams either mind, I don't think there is much between the three players and I doubt the June tests will change my mind. The 3N is much more likely to.

 

[Ben Richard Tyson]

Let me get this straight. Are people suggesting that the in-his-prime Conrad Smith is better than the in-his-prime Brian O'Driscoll? If it's on current form then fine, couldn't really argue. But BOD is the outstanding centre of his time. Probably one of the greatest players I will ever get to see. Smith is very good. Excellent even. But to say that he is better than the old (ironically, the young) O'Driscoll? Really?

 

[ranger]

O'Driscoll scored a try from 3 metres out? I seem to remember him being significantly involved in the build up including a lovely offload. Put Conrad Smith in the Irish team instead of O'Driscoll and I don't think he would have done much better, same goes for Fourie.

Don't think O'Driscoll would do any better than Jaque or Conrad in the SA/NZ teams either mind, I don't think there is much between the three players and I doubt the June tests will change my mind. The 3N is much more likely to.

Smith completely outplayed O'Driscoll last night. BOD had his opportunities to run the ball and he didn't look threatening at all, i mentioned that he had some handy passes but i wouldn't say he had a good game. If you didn't know he was the best in the world and were watching him for the first time you wouldn't come to that conclusion yourself. You can argue "what ifs" all you like but the bare fact is clear.

 

[Darwin]

Let me get this straight. Are people suggesting that the in-his-prime Conrad Smith is better than the in-his-prime Brian O'Driscoll? If it's on current form then fine, couldn't really argue. But BOD is the outstanding centre of his time. Probably one of the greatest players I will ever get to see. Smith is very good. Excellent even. But to say that he is better than the old (ironically, the young) O'Driscoll? Really?

I haven't seen anyone suggest that - the only comparisons I've seen throughout this thread are between a 2010 version O'Driscoll and a 2010 version Conrad Smith.

 

[nickdnz]

Smith completely outplayed O'Driscoll last night. BOD had his opportunities to run the ball and he didn't look threatening at all, i mentioned that he had some handy passes but i wouldn't say he had a good game. If you didn't know he was the best in the world and were watching him for the first time you wouldn't come to that conclusion yourself. You can argue "what ifs" all you like but the bare fact is clear.

Hang on, to be fair Ben Richard Tyson has a good point. I love Tana Umaga as a centre. I thought he was brilliant. I hope if he plays for Counties, he has a shot to make the AB's once again. But if Fourie played Umaga now, and did better than him, I wouldn't draw the conclusion Fourie is a better centre than Umaga was, I'd say he is younger, fitter, and on better form than Umaga. Umaga in his prime would, in my opinion, wipe the floor with Fourie. We all know how Umaga wiped the floop with O'Driscoll .

The point I'm trying to make is this. Fourie and Smith both had good games this weekend. Smith didn't make a mistake and despite being hugely under rated by rugbywriter (saying he's all right or good, is like saying Jesus was a bit of a do-gooder), showed impecable class, timing and attacking prowess. Fourie also had a good game for SA (personally I don't think he was as good as Smith this game, but he is obviously a good player who's in his prime).

O'Driscoll is old. He was once a very good player, in his time Umaga was the only person who I'd rate as good as him. But now he is old. He had a good year last year, but against the AB's he looked slow, confused and unorganised. The try he scored I would have expected from any first choice centre in the world. If people want to convince themselves that this was a good game for his standards, than they are really just devaluing his career. In my opinion, he seems to have fallen a step behind Fourie and Smith. In 4 years time, I presume the same fate for Smith and Fourie, and they will look like lesser players than SBW or Mathieu Bastareaud for example.

 

[Seaton]

Don't think O'Driscoll would do any better than Jaque or Conrad in the SA/NZ teams either mind, I don't think there is much between the three players and I doubt the June tests will change my mind. The 3N is much more likely to.

I fully agree with this
It's hard to tell whos the better player when one is playing in a significantly weaker team than the other, and especially one that gets a lot forward moving ball.
O' Driscoll is world class, Fourie is world class, Smith is world class.
The only reason why I would say the former 2 are better, is because I have seen them play iin a a world class fashion, in a non-world class team (aka weak Ireland and the Lions (S14), against world class opponents, where as I have never seen Smith carrry a team by himself, but only because he has never had to

 

[ranger]

Hang on, to be fair Ben Richard Tyson has a good point. I love Tana Umaga as a centre. I thought he was brilliant. I hope if he plays for Counties, he has a shot 2 make the AB's once again. But if Fourie played Umaga now, and did better than him, I wouldn't draw the conclusion Fourie is a better centre than Umaga was, I'd say he is younger, fitter, and on better form than Umaga. Umaga in his prime would show, in my opinion, wipe the floor with Fourie. We all know how Umaga wiped the floop with O'Driscoll .

The point I'm trying to make is this. Fourie and Smith both has good games this weekend. Smith didn't make a mistake and despite being hugely under rated by rugbywriter (saying he's all right or good, is like saying Jesus was a bit of a do-gooder), showed impecable class, timing and attacking prowess. Fourie also had a good game for SA (personally I don't think he was as good as Smith this game, but he is obviously a good player who's in his prime).

O'Driscoll is old. He was once a very good player, in his time Umaga was the only person who I'd rate as good as him. But now he is old. He had a good year last year, but against the AB's he looked slow, confused and unorganised. The try he scored I would have expected from any first choice centre in the world. If people want to convince themselves that this was a good game for his standards, than they are really just devaluing his career. In my opinion, he seems to have fallen a step behind Fourie and Smith. In 4 years time, I presume the same fate for Smith and Fourie, and they will look like lesser players than SBW or Mathieu Bastareaud for example.

Hold on a minute, I never made any comparison between BODs previous form years ago and Smith now, Ben Richard Tyson doesn't really have a point because he seems to have pulled that inference out of thin air. I'm not a big fan of "what ifs" because you can never know for sure and no matter which way you work it its just guess work. All i was talking about was the outcome of last nights game, thats all.

Rugbywriter was inferring that Smith and BOD both played "well" last night. I was pointing out that in last nights game Smith was a couple classes above BOD.

 

[ranger]

I fully agree with this
It's hard to tell whos the better player when one is playing in a significantly weaker team than the other, and especially one that gets a lot forward moving ball.
O' Driscoll is world class, Fourie is world class, Smith is world class.
The only reason why I would say the former 2 are better, is because I have seen them play iin a a world class fashion, in a non-world class team (aka weak Ireland and the Lions (S14), against world class opponents, where as I have never seen Smith carrry a team by himself, but only because he has never had to

Respectfully speaking, I think this is bullshit.

What you are effectively saying is that anytime BOD plays NZ, he either outplays his opposition and proves he is the best in the world, or he doesn't outplay his opposition and that was because his team wasn't very good, but hes still amazing. Come on.

You can't assert that BOD and Fourie are better just because Conrad plays for good rugby teams? what the hell? What does he have to do man he plays out of his skin every week. You said yourself, Conrad has never been in the position where he is in a poor team having to carry them, but because of this that means he isn't as good as other players? that makes no sense at all.

Fourie doesn't even play for the Lions anymore, that is actually part of the reason i'm not a huge fan of the guy. I can understand his reasons for leaving but he seems to me to be a guy that lacks character. Instead of sticking around to be a leader for his province he jumps ship. Its not as if his Springbok chances were being put in jeopardy by playing there. I respect Juan Smith immensely for standing by the Cheetahs and i lost some for Fourie for leaving his team.
Fourie also seems ridiculously cocky in the media, he came out declaring that he thinks he is the best centre in the world ffs.

Smiths game is making everyone else on the field look good. He is the embodiment of a team player, he avoids the limelight and puts the victory of the team before himself.

Conrad just seems like a good guy on and off the field where as with Jaque Fourie it just seems like its all about Jaque Fourie.

 

[nickdnz]

Respectfully speaking, I think this is bullshit.

What you are effectively saying is that anytime BOD plays NZ, he either outplays his opposition and proves he is the best in the world, or he doesn't outplay his opposition and that was because his team wasn't very good, but hes still amazing. Come on.

You can't assert that BOD and Fourie are better just because Conrad plays for good rugby teams? what the hell? What does he have to do man he plays out of his skin every week. You said yourself, Conrad has never been in the position where he is in a poor team having to carry them, but because of this that means he isn't as good as other players? that makes no sense at all.

Fourie doesn't even play for the Lions anymore, that is actually part of the reason i'm not a huge fan of the guy. I can understand his reasons for leaving but he seems to me to be a guy that lacks character. Instead of sticking around to be a leader for his province he jumps ship. Its not as if his Springbok chances were being put in jeopardy by playing there. I respect Juan Smith immensely for standing by the Cheetahs and i lost some for Fourie for leaving his team.
Fourie also seems ridiculously cocky in the media, he came out declaring that he thinks he is the best centre in the world ffs.

Smiths game is making everyone else on the field look good. He is the embodiment of a team player, he avoids the limelight and puts the victory of the team before himself.

Conrad just seems like a good guy on and off the field where as with Jaque Fourie it just seems like its all about Jaque Fourie.

I agree with that. That's probably what turned me off Fourie the most. You should let other people talk yourself up, he essentially said I'm better than all my competition, something which I don't think he's proven. The reason I said it was a fair point, was because rugbywriter said, do you think an on form Smith is really better than an on form O'Drsicoll. My point was, an on form O'Driscoll is unlikely to ever be as good as he was, which is what he seems to be compared to. I agree with you that you can't compare top players form now, to top players forms years ago, which is why I hate people who put players like George Nepia and Colin Meads in their dream team, because there is no way you can compare them. It isn't quite that bad with O'Driscoll, because obviously he is still an active player, my point being it all comes down to guess work.

 

[rugbywriter]

I agree with that. That's probably what turned me off Fourie the most. You should let other people talk yourself up, he essentially said I'm better than all my competition, something which I don't think he's proven. The reason I said it was a fair point, was because rugbywriter said, do you think an on form Smith is really better than an on form O'Drsicoll. My point was, an on form O'Driscoll is unlikely to ever be as good as he was, which is what he seems to be compared to. I agree with you that you can't compare top players form now, to top players forms years ago, which is why I hate people who put players like George Nepia and Colin Meads in their dream team, because there is no way you can compare them. It isn't quite that bad with O'Driscoll, because obviously he is still an active player, my point being it all comes down to guess work.

Nick I've misunderstood you this whole time. I thought you meant thatConrad Smith now is better then BOD ever was, like in his prime. I agree that at the moment, with O'Driscolls age, Smith is performing better. But that should be a given. BOD is like 100 years old and Smith is still in his twenties. What I've meant this whole time is that Smith isn't better then O'Driscoll was in his time. We've really been arguing about nothing then.

 

[Darwin]

Nick I've misunderstood you this whole time. I thought you meant thatConrad Smith now is better then BOD ever was, like in his prime. I agree that at the moment, with O'Driscolls age, Smith is performing better. But that should be a given. BOD is like 100 years old and Smith is still in his twenties. What I've meant this whole time is that Smith isn't better then O'Driscoll was in his time. We've really been arguing about nothing then.

Quite a feat for someone who "wasn't even in the top 5 New Zealand centres IMO for the s14*". Lucky for opposition teams we don't let any of these top 5 centers play for the AB's - they must be pretty incredible players

*quoting rugbywriter, from the first page of this thread

 

[rugbywriter]

Quite a feat for someone who "wasn't even in the top 5 New Zealand centres IMO for the s14*". Lucky for opposition teams we don't let any of these top 5 centers play for the AB's - they must be pretty incredible players

*quoting rugbywriter, from the first page of this thread

Well he didn't have a great Super14. Even nickdnz will probably second that.

 

[ranger]

Well he didn't have a great Super14. Even nickdnz will probably second that.

Not at all. He had a great Super 14 i felt, him and Andrew Hore were the two best players throughout. He had a particularly poor game at the end of the season against the 'Tahs but he was still feeling the effects of a particularly bad concussion. He said himself that he wasn't really up to playing and if it weren't for the do-or-die circumstances he wouldn't have played

 

[nickdnz]

Well he didn't have a great Super14. Even nickdnz will probably second that.

I will not second that.

 

[rugbywriter]

I will not second that.

My goodness me. Obviously you don't rate him highly if you think that for his standards, that wasn't a bad Super14

 

[ranger]

My goodness me. Obviously you don't rate him highly if you think that for his standards, that wasn't a bad Super14

What were you watching? Beside one (given the circumstances) excusable bad game, he was top notch. I dont know what you could possibly think he did wrong? Just have a look at all the "Super 14 team of the week" selections up around the place

 

[Seaton]

Respectfully speaking, I think this is bullshit.

What you are effectively saying is that anytime BOD plays NZ, he either outplays his opposition and proves he is the best in the world, or he doesn't outplay his opposition and that was because his team wasn't very good, but hes still amazing. Come on.

You can't assert that BOD and Fourie are better just because Conrad plays for good rugby teams? what the hell? What does he have to do man he plays out of his skin every week. You said yourself, Conrad has never been in the position where he is in a poor team having to carry them, but because of this that means he isn't as good as other players? that makes no sense at all.

I also feel Fourie is a bit cocky, but with regards to leaving the Lions, he is 27 +- years old, hes not getting any younger and was never going to win a trophy with the Lions, so I can sympathise with him moving, hes not the first, won't be the last

With regards to the bit I quoted, relax
We are each entitled to our own opinions, no need to get in a huff, I clearly said "The only reason why I would say the former 2 are bettere", that does not mean I believe that my opinion is the most definitive one, but rather just my opinion. Further explaining my opinion, I said all three are world class, and that the only reason why I would say the former 2 are better, is because I have seen them play well in weak teams, and I cannot just assume Smith would.

 

[Jer1cho]

Methinks Conrad Smith has been on teh forums lately. He raped Ireland. Such a good play maker. Even i was one of his nay-sayers at first, with many an argument with Nickdnz regarding Smith's capabilities. How wrong was i? Really hope he can continue this form.

 

[nickdnz]

Methinks Conrad Smith has been on teh forums lately. He raped Ireland. Such a good play maker. Even i was one of his nay-sayers at first, with many an argument with Nickdnz regarding Smith's capabilities. How wrong was i? Really hope he can continue this form.

Jer1cho, I think you are my favourite South African...






like seriously.