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[McTallshort]

Indeed.

He initially said

"The exact opposite, critical thought is king! The only person in the wrong in any argument, is the person who refuses to acknowledge any shred of credibility from their opponent (and Mctallsort)"

And all I was pointing out was there are times when that is certainly not the case and pointed out several examples, now he's moaning I'm making a nuanced discussion binary. I have no idea why he wouldn't just respond "sure, there's times when that's fair and appropriate however, generally speaking, trying to understand the other side in issues that are not conclusively right or wrong is a good idea" but he doesn't seem to want to say that.

Because he just wants to disagree

 

[dirty harry]

So is that a no?

I wasn’t saying people who had concerns (that’s you moving the goalposts) I’m saying people who believe the election was stolen which is an opinion that has no basis in reality or fact but I’m glad you agree that opinion has no validity. Could have just said so in a sentence or 2 though. No need for all the other guff

Except there are valid reasons for thinking that, and there is validity. Unless your making the claim, that none of that 'guff' existed?

Concerns are the foundation of opinion, you hating Trump is an opinion, led by your concerns of him. MAGA voters are concerned that Democrats want to improve the ability of fraud, by fighting against voter ID. Leading to the opinions Democrats want to cheat the elections

 

[dirty harry]

Did Hilary Clinton say the election was rigged and that she lost illegally? Did she also bang on about it for years?

Oh dear... you might want to Google before such an assertive tone is used lol

She repeatedly made claims of rigging in numerous states, cheating by Trump and refers to him as illegitimate.

Is he legitimate to you?

 

[Welsh Exile]

Except there are valid reasons for thinking that, and there is validity. Unless your making the claim, that none of that 'guff' existed?

Concerns are the foundation of opinion, you hating Trump is an opinion, led by your concerns of him. MAGA voters are concerned that Democrats want to improve the ability of fraud, by fighting against voter ID. Leading to the opinions Democrats want to cheat the elections

Except there’s not though is there. The election was not stolen. There is no evidence to suggest it was. Voter fraud concerns are massively overplayed as there has never been an instance in a major democracy where there has been mass voter fraud that has affected the results of an election. It’s basically impossible. So not, saying, “well there’s legitimate concerns” is ********. If there were legitimate concerns there wound be some validity but there weren’t which is why it’s false and in trumps case, a lie.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Oh dear... you might want to Google before such an assertive tone is used lol

She repeatedly made claims of rigging in numerous states, cheating by Trump and refers to him as illegitimate.

Is he legitimate to you?

I think you want to read what she said. While I disagree with the language used she never said the election was rigged maliciously and that the real winner was robbed. She's moaned about Trumps tactics, she's moaned about the electoral college and how it's an unfair system but she hasn't said votes were rigged and she certainly hasn't banged on about it for years after and insisted that any people she works with holds that view as some kind of loyalty test towards her.

 

[dirty harry]

I think you want to read what she said. While I disagree with the language used she never said the election was rigged maliciously and that the real winner was robbed. She’s moaned about Trump statics, she’s moaned about the electoral college and how it’s an unfair system but she hasn’t said votes were rigged and she certainly hasn’t banged on a int that for years after and insisted that any people she works with holds that view as some kind of loyalty test towards her.

Sorry bud, you are wrong. She made numerous claims of Russian interference and rigging the election, she claimed there was a study that said 80k people were turned away from polling stations for being non white, and she made the claim that Georgian voter suppression was rife, and much less people were allowed to be registered than in 2012.

It's not hard to find her claims, AND she still now, as do the likes of Pelosi , Waters and others call Trump an Illegitimate president.

Now I'll ask for a 4th time, do you deem Trump legitimate?

 

[Ddanno]

I think you want to read what she said. While I disagree with the language used she never said the election was rigged maliciously and that the real winner was robbed. She's moaned about Trumps tactics, she's moaned about the electoral college and how it's an unfair system but she hasn't said votes were rigged and she certainly hasn't banged on about it for years after and insisted that any people she works with holds that view as some kind of loyalty test towards her.

Or y'know, incited a mob to attack the Capitol building in hopes of a coup

 

[Welsh Exile]

Sorry bud, you are wrong. She made numerous claims of Russian interference and rigging the election, she claimed there was a study that said 80k people were turned away from polling stations for being non white, and she made the claim that Georgian voter suppression was rife, and much less people were allowed to be registered than in 2012.

It's not hard to find her claims, AND she still now, as do the likes of Pelosi , Waters and others call Trump an Illegitimate president.

Now I'll ask for a 4th time, do you deem Trump legitimate?

Why don’t you post what she’s said and we’ll see if we can garner the context of how she is using the word illegitimate.

 

[dirty harry]

Clinton 2020 - “There was a widespread understanding that this election [in 2016] was not on the level,”

Trump "knows he’s an illegitimate president," Clinton said. "I believe he understands that the many varying tactics they used, from voter suppression and voter purging to hacking to the false stories — he knows that — there were just a bunch of different reasons why the election turned out like it did … I know he knows this wasn’t on the level."

"Virginia just stopped using touchscreen voting because its so vulnerable to corruption as we have seen"

" you can run the best campaign, even become the nominee and have the election STOLEN from you"


Mate I could find 50 quotes claiming election denial from her, some from this year, and that's just Clinton!

 

[dirty harry]

Why don’t you post what she’s said and we’ll see if we can garner the context of how she is using the word illegitimate.

5th time, Trump legitimate or not?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I think you want to read what she said. While I disagree with the language used she never said the election was rigged maliciously and that the real winner was robbed. She's moaned about Trumps tactics, she's moaned about the electoral college and how it's an unfair system but she hasn't said votes were rigged and she certainly hasn't banged on about it for years after and insisted that any people she works with holds that view as some kind of loyalty test towards her.

Don't bother, already been there with him. When he can't claim an action is normal, he claims Dems are just as bad, when he can't show Dems are as bad, he says Trump is playing a character and should be ignored.

As night follows day, mr nuance acting like the winner of the popular vote complaining how the system is set up is identical to all the 2020 election denialism Trump and MAGA engaged in. See how long before he gets to the final bit.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Clinton 2020 - "There was a widespread understanding that this election [in 2016] was not on the level,"

Trump "knows he's an illegitimate president," Clinton said. "I believe he understands that the many varying tactics they used, from voter suppression and voter purging to hacking to the false stories — he knows that — there were just a bunch of different reasons why the election turned out like it did … I know he knows this wasn't on the level."

"Virginia just stopped using touchscreen voting because its so vulnerable to corruption as we have seen"

" you can run the best campaign, even become the nominee and have the election STOLEN from you"


Mate I could find 50 quotes claiming election denial from her, some from this year, and that's just Clinton!

So the first quote proves my point. She's saying there were a bunch of things involved. She's also, imo, talking about the moral legitimacy of Trumps presidency as the questions she was asked was doesn't it kill you to hear the lock her up chants" and she said no it's doesn't kill me because he knows he's illegitimate president and then lists off all the lies he told. That is totally different to saying an election was rigged. In fact it's the opposite of that.

 

[dirty harry]

So the first quote proves my point. She's saying there were a bunch of things involved. She's also, imo, talking about the moral legitimacy of Trumps presidency as the questions she was asked was doesn't it kill you to hear the lock her up chants" and she said no it's doesn't kill me because he knows he's illegitimate president and then liars off all the lies he told. That is totally different to saying an election was rigged. In fact it's the opposite of that.

Hahaha that's hardcore cope. On the level means honest, or legitimate. That's a direct quote denying the election.

I suggest reading her book, what happened. It's less about denial, and more about blame, she literally blames everyone for the loss, its kind of interesting tbh, and she makes some valid points, but doesn't look great doing so.

 

[dirty harry]

Let's try a 6th time, is trump legitimate or not? Hard to believe you refuse to answer 6 times!

 

[Welsh Exile]

Hahaha that's hardcore cope. On the level means honest, or legitimate. That's a direct quote denying the election.

I suggest reading her book, what happened. It's less about denial, and more about blame, she literally blames everyone for the loss, its kind of interesting tbh, and she makes some valid points, but doesn't look great doing so.

Does she blame dodgy voting machines. Lol

 

[Welsh Exile]

Let's try a 6th time, is trump legitimate or not? Hard to believe you refuse to answer 6 times!

Yes of course he’s legitimate in the sense there is nothing illegal about his presidency.

If you want to ask me is he a legitimate president in a moral sense then clearly no. But yes is the answer to your question how you intended it. I already said I don’t agree with the language she used but I will fight you to the death if you think this is the same as what Trump has said for the last 5 years.

 

[dirty harry]

Yes of course he’s legitimate in the sense there is nothing illegal about his presidency.

If you want to ask me is he a legitimate president in a moral sense then clearly no. But yes is the answer to your question how you intended it. I already said I don’t agree with the language she used but I will fight you to the death if you think this is the same as what Trump has said for the last 5 years.

Firstly, thanks for the clarification, I was starting to think you were election denying hahahaha

Secondly, I'm not comparing Trump to Clinton, Trump was far worse in 2020 of course. I lumped Clinton in with Republicans who had valid concerns and opinions of the 2020 elections being rigged at the time (I've already stated if they still talk that way they are as bad as Clinton, as she was still fear mongering about right wing extremists trying to steal 2024).

Let's keep this honest, you see how i can criticise Trump, add caveats, criticse Clinton add caveats, and both empathise with Republicans and condemn those who went over the line. Your just pushing hard anti republican points, denying they have any form of validity or concerns, and defending your team.

We are not the same.

 

[dirty harry]

Does she blame dodgy voting machines. Lol

I mean... she kind of does hahaha honestly the book is interesting, she has valid concerns but overlays them way too hard.

I was surprised she took responsibility at one point, I'd not heard her do that

 

[Welsh Exile]

I mean... she kind of does hahaha honestly the book is interesting, she has valid concerns but overlays them way too hard.

I was surprised she took responsibility at one point, I'd not heard her do that

I don’t believe you when you say you’ve read it. What doesn’t say about machines being rigged

 

[Welsh Exile]

Firstly, thanks for the clarification, I was starting to think you were election denying hahahaha

Secondly, I'm not comparing Trump to Clinton, Trump was far worse in 2020 of course. I lumped Clinton in with Republicans who had valid concerns and opinions of the 2020 elections being rigged at the time (I've already stated if they still talk that way they are as bad as Clinton, as she was still fear mongering about right wing extremists trying to steal 2024).

Let's keep this honest, you see how i can criticise Trump, add caveats, criticse Clinton add caveats, and both empathise with Republicans and condemn those who went over the line. Your just pushing hard anti republican points, denying they have any form of validity or concerns, and defending your team.

We are not the same.

This whole thing started with you saying

The exact opposite, critical thought is king! The only person in the wrong in any argument, is the person who refuses to acknowledge any shred of credibility from their opponent (and Mctallsort)"

I disagreed with this statement as there are clearly instances where you shouldn’t acknowledge any credibility to opinions that have no basis in fact or reality. Not taking abint people who have concerns,
I then mentioned people that believe the election was stolen (and cited other examples like flat earth) I think this proves your statement to be categorically false but you tried to shift the goal posts by saying there were legitimate concerns. Firstly, there weren’t any legitimate concerns but even if there were that wasn’t my claim, I specifically said people that said the 2020 election was stolen.

As I say, I don’t know why you can’t say sometimes you’re right but most of the time it’s good to try and understand the other side, then you would’ve got no arguments from me.